Anime on Demand - Good news and bad news

ConanThe3rd said:
And how are you going to monetise all of the people looking at the pay wall, saying "Ten quid? sod that nonsense!" and not bothering any more.

The same way you would any other service, and of course there are myriad ways of doing that (value, convenience, functionality etc, or a blend of those elements) without giving the whole shooting match away for free minus some of the trimmings.

If someone looks in the window of HMV and says "Ten quid for a Harry Potter Blu-Ray? Sod that!" you don't see a member of staff running after them to offer them a free copy of the film on DVD...
 
Hanners said:
If someone looks in the window of HMV and says "Ten quid for a Harry Potter Blu-Ray? Sod that!" you don't see a member of staff running after them to offer them a free copy of the film on DVD...

There’s one thing I’ve never understood with anime fans, why they feel they are entitled to anything for free in the first place.
 
Someone sees Harry Potter on Blu Ray for a tenner, goes "I remember Harry Potter being good from what I saw on ITV (or Sky Movies, or whatever)! I think I'll buy it!" and does so.

And thus Home video movie market obtains Success

Someone sees, and this is a total shot in the dark towards what AOD will get next season, High School DxD on DVD for £30 and, barely remembering the smallest squeak of the show he might have seen on AOD after fighting tooth and nail to do so, goes "nah" and then walks over to buy Harry Potter on Blu Ray because of the above.

And thus AOD obtains failure.
 
Crunchyroll has something like 70,000 subscribers, and probably over ten times as many people clicking on their free streams. That's the kind of numbers that can let you go to advertisers and say, "Look, we've got a demographic here. Want to stick some unskippable ads in the videostreams?"

Does Anime on Demand have the same clout to enable them to do the same thing? Remember the comparative sizes of the UK and US fandoms, coupled with CR being a company with actual global reach, not just US.

Actually a better indicator might be Funimation's Youtube streams, which do us the favour of counting the views. Check the page for the Fairy Tale streams. Again, these are streaming to the (much of the) world, not just the US, or the UK. They've been putting up two episodes a week every week. The most recent episodes have been up for three weeks, and they've only had around 12.000 and 14.000 views respectively. Worse, the episodes reach a plateau point after some time, and the majority of the earlier episodes peak at around 30,000 views.

To make content free, they have to sell advertising on the strength of those numbers, thousands where companies would much rather reach millions. And Anime on Demand is a fraction of that.

It's why I feel that the anime industry as a whole, from all the way back at the start point, should be subsidising free streaming as a loss leader for eventual home media sales.
 
ConanThe3rd said:
Someone sees Harry Potter on Blu Ray for a tenner, goes "I remember Harry Potter being good from what I saw on ITV (or Sky Movies, or whatever)! I think I'll buy it!" and does so.

Is Harry Potter "simulcast" on terrestrial, free-to-air television at the same time as its cinema release? Is it broadcast on free-to-air television before its physical home video release?

A far better example would be, say, Doctor Who - broadcast on free-to-air television and then released physically. The problem there is economies of scale - Doctor Who makes the BBC large amounts of money from overseas broadcast licensing to a wealth of other territories, and can then go on to a sell a shedload of copies via home media. Then of course, there's the license fee - maybe we should call it an annual pass in this debate? ;)

If any television anime series could sell as many copies as popular UK/US TV shows, then we wouldn't be having this argument as the whole thing would be a no-brainer (and we'd probably be watching Maken-ki on BBC iPlayer), but in a world where an anime series is going to sell a couple of thousand copies on its home video release tops there's far less to be gained from making video-on-demand a massive loss leader.
 
In that case, why bother at all? What is it's function? I can not believe for one second that turning off the basic model will somehow magically allow Kazé to recoup the costs they'll still have to deal with a subscription model.

Can, as you put it, a fraction of so many thousand who will pay for a subscription, suddenly prop the service up?

As it will stand, AOD will atrophy and die in the same way AnimeCentral did.
 
One of the mental barriers for old fashioned folks who know they will be buying the discs down the line is probably that they have to pay for everything twice, so incentives like coupons for the Anime On-Line shop (or something) to buy the discs later would be fun. The disadvantage here is that of course it's often cheaper to buy from Amazon/HMV and they'll probably never get used, but it's psychological...

Edit: Forgot to say this was britguy's idea I was responding too, oops!

ConanThe3rd said:
In that instance close up shop, you're not actually doing anyone any good.

Just because they aren't proposing a service for people who want everything for free and intend to hold them to ransom with piracy threats, doesn't mean that there aren't lots of other people they can serve. Quite a few examples of them are already talking in this thread on this small forum! Please don't presume to speak for everyone.

R
 
I'm not asking for everything free! I'm asking for the show as it's streaming for as long as it's streaming (****! at this point, I'll deal with not having a buffer, one week after the last episode airs, screw it, give us money!). That's not everything, that's a base!

The rate this is going at, you won't even get what you want, which is one episode for a week and then nothing, because AOD will be unable to sustain itself.

Rui said:
One of the mental barriers for old fashioned folks who know they will be buying the discs down the line is probably that they have to pay for everything twice, so incentives like coupons for the Anime On-Line shop (or something) to buy the discs later would be fun. The disadvantage here is that of course it's often cheaper to buy from Amazon/HMV and they'll probably never get used, but it's psychological...

Speaking of assumptions. I'm sorry but if I didn't get to watch Tiger and Bunny in SD every Saturday night, I might very well have not been convinced that waiting for it to be available for buying on Home Video is a good idea.
 
ConanThe3rd said:
I can not believe for one second that turning off the basic model will somehow magically allow Kazé to recoup the costs they'll still have to deal with a subscription model.

I don't think anyone is arguing that, as obviously those numbers would never add up, but supporting a free service in return for absolutely zero revenue isn't sustainable for obvious reasons when you're paying to legally license and stream anime. Even a free but advertising supported service wouldn't survive in the current online climate, particularly in the UK.

If people aren't willing to pay for things, then the UK's entire anime industry will ultimately atrophy, and that'll be the end of that.
 
Am i alone in saying that 9/10 of my anime purchases are blind buys, much like 9/10 of my gaming purchases and 9/10 of my DVD/BD film purchases are blind buys?
 
britguy said:
Am i alone in saying that 9/10 of my anime purchases are blind buys, much like 9/10 of my gaming purchases and 9/10 of my DVD/BD film purchases are blind buys?
And how many of those were based on previous experience with a franchise, and how many of the rest were regrettable?

fabricatedlunatic said:
Nope. I love the thrill of a blind buy.
Surprise! I hate the dirty taste of a bad buy.
 
At least 9/10 of my purchases are blind buys too, and I regret only one in all of my years of anime collecting. And it was in the VHS days and only bought because we had so little choice.

I've never found it rocket science to read a description and deduce that demonic butlers are to my taste whereas series about schoolgirls falling over aren't.

R
 
ConanThe3rd said:
Then give me a good reason why I should buy product.

Is Anime on Demand streaming series you may be interested in? If so, buy a subscription, if not, don't.

Not sure if you'll like any of the current series? Watch the trailer, read some reviews, watch the first episode, talk to other people who are watching the show to gauge their opinion. Y'know, just like you would for any other product.
 
britguy said:
There’s one thing I’ve never understood with anime fans, why they feel they are entitled to anything for free in the first place.
I think it's a little unfair to say it's just anime fans. It's probably fair to say that we were pioneers of internet video piracy somewhat, though that's likely because anime fans as a demographic tend to include more tech-savvy internet dwellers than found amongst the average population. And I know people who have never watched anime and happily torrent entire collections of US TV shows now. Music was first, now it's anime, give it a few years and all media will have this problem. Nobody feels entitled to anything for free, but if it's available for free they're going to take it. That's simply human nature.

Just Passing Through said:
Crunchyroll has something like 70,000 subscribers, and probably over ten times as many people clicking on their free streams. That's the kind of numbers that can let you go to advertisers and say, "Look, we've got a demographic here. Want to stick some unskippable ads in the videostreams?"
Hmm. My thoughts on that would be that as soon as people find that there are unskippable ads in the videostreams, they'll look for a way to view them without. Personally I dislike adverts so much I don't even watch TV channels which broadcast them.

In that case, why bother at all? What is it's function?
This, to me, is the more interesting question. But to know, I'd have to have access to all the relevant data... which I don't, but I imagine Kaze do. It will succeed or it won't, but for some reason I don't imagine that will depend on either of us.

For the record, most of my purchases are blind-buys too.
 
You know what, no, my foot is down on this, whole series on SD for it's airing duration or nothing.

I'll gladly buy a subscription for HD and Archival access not for base product.

I'm not paying a subscription to watch an advertisement for the Home Video Release. Not when other places and other regions are providing what I'm asking for and more.
 
ConanThe3rd said:
And how many of those were based on previous experience with a franchise, and how many of the rest were regrettable?
.

Close to 10% when it comes to anime. WIth games and movies i'd raise it to about 25%.

My decisions are based on reading the synopsis, reading reviews, watching a trailer. These are my most recent purchases, I have no experience with any of them barring Tsubasa. All are blind buys, regretted none of them.

Soul Eater
Hell Girl
Freedom
Gankutsuou
Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle
Black Butler (admittedly not watched yet as only just ordered)
Rin - Daughters of Mnemosyne
Durarara
Redline
Eden of the East
 
ayase said:
In that case, why bother at all? What is it's function?
This, to me, is the more interesting question. But to know, I'd have to have access to all the relevant data... which I don't, but I imagine Kaze do. It will succeed or it won't, but for some reason I don't imagine that will depend on either of us.

I think there are multiple answers to that question - to gauge interest in a property with a view to a physical release in the future and to monetise a license more quickly are the two obvious answers which spring to mind over and above the obvious stuff like offering a legal alternative to piracy.
 
britguy said:
Am i alone in saying that 9/10 of my anime purchases are blind buys, much like 9/10 of my gaming purchases and 9/10 of my DVD/BD film purchases are blind buys?

I blind buy much of my anime/video games/music/manga. After a while you get an idea of what you might like anyway so just seeing a description is often enough.
 
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