Anime on Demand - Good news and bad news

[anime_andrew]

The competition between AoD and CR is likely going to result in my subscribing to neither if it continues as it is. With neither having enough (good) content to be worth it. All that's happening is the content we got on CR is being split between the two of them, doubling prices for the same amount of content and far worse if you weren't a CR subscriber.
Still none of the Sentai/ Anime Network simulcasts available here, almost none of locked FUNimation shows and nothing whatsoever the USA hasn't had (for free).

We're working on all of this just now to address the balance so hang in there - it's something we are aware of though as an overall picture and very acutely aware of.

Andrew

 

[anime_andrew]

I'm in the same boat as JPT, as I will never pay money to simply be able to stream content on my computer, however if I think a show worthy I will almost certainly buy it as soon as I have the expendable money required (and unlike Rui I never import). But I nearly never (now less than ever before) buy show's that I'm not certain are worthy of that purchase, it's not just anime this extends to almost everything I buy. I only wish to support creators and products that I can wholly approve and want more of, it is true that there are times when I do take risks, but now that I also have less income then previously I find I am rarely taking them.Critic reviews rarely ever seem to reflect my own opinions on shows/films, so I tend not to rely on them. Indeed, trying fully before I buy is the best way to insure someone like me will spend money on your product.

Whether it's a Nozomi-like system and/or previews of upcoming shows, we'll definitely be working this in. For now all episode 1s are free as I've mentioned and I'll look at what else can be done from now on too .

 

[Rui]

Not rocket science; current season, let people see it in SD. Get monies from Home Video and Subscriptions, done.

Unlimited content for free in SD provides little incentive to subscribe at all for a lot of people, which rather breaks the second part of the argument. Sure, some people will, but SD is good enough for me when it's free and I know I'm going to be buying the blu-rays/DVDs later as well. I certainly like high quality, but it takes a bit more of a prod for a lazy person like me to get me to realise I need to open my purse, and withholding actual content definitely works.

I think my dream subscription model would be (pulling the numbers out of the air obviously just to make the maths easy) an annual "just give me everything" pass (£40), monthly pass (£4), then an option to pick and mix with credits which you could buy in chunks appropriate to processing fees etc. Say 50p to unlock a single episode of something for viewing, and as long as it was up on the site you could go back to that episode, which is unlocked on your account. I obviously have no understanding of the technical and legal wranglings that would be required, but a model like the one the mobile phone market uses would be easy to understand for most people and would suit both types of viewer. People could then also gift credits to others without worrying about their subscription status. And of course there's potential to use unwanted credits for other things, like premium wallpaper downloads...

I know it's weird for me to suggest alternative subscriptions when I personally prefer the full passes, but one thing I remember when the US moved from single anime DVDs to box sets was how much rage there was on forums from people suddenly getting sticker shock at the idea of buying a whole show at once. Even if it was between a DVD set at $40 or three individual volumes at $20 each, some people didn't care that the set was cheaper and wanted the lower entry cost of the singles. It sounds crazy to me because I like to think in terms of overall cost, but with the anime fanbase here tending to be younger I think it's worth a try.

R

 

[anime_andrew]

What about trying to get rights to dubbed/subbed only content that isn't viable for DVD sales in the UK but could potentially be a part of either the current subscription or a different one for AoD?

That way you're not only getting attention from those who don't watch subs but you're offering a little more variety.

Looking into that actually as an option -one issue is keeping your digital offerings simple so unless the Annual Pass cost more and had that within it, then it'd be really tough to do.

I'm keen on the concept though - how does everyone else feel? Will ask folks over the next year and see how they feel too .

Also pick up those titles which may have been dropped mid-way during DVD release?

I can look into that but it's a very specific sub-set which usually means the title has been locked down by someone with rights still. Any titles particularly in mind?

Andrew

 

[Vashdaman]

Wow, Andrew's been going in on this thread!! Good stuff though, it's great to be able have such good communication with you and reassuring to see that your hard at work doing the best you can.

Though, it seems you've been up to your Agent Andrew tricks again and doubling yourself up to be able to get all that posting done

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Unlimited content for free in SD provides little incentive to subscribe at all for a lot of people, which rather breaks the second part of the argument. Sure, some people will, but SD is good enough for me when it's free and I know I'm going to be buying the blu-rays/DVDs later as well. I certainly like high quality, but it takes a bit more of a prod for a lazy person like me to get me to realise I need to open my purse, and withholding actual content definitely works.
R

No, you misunderstood me. One should be able to see the whole series from start to finish in SD without a subscription whilst the show is running in Japan. Subscribers get it in HD and also in mobile/Internet enabled TV formats. This is pretty much what CR does for their system.

Then after a given amount of time, let's say a month, after the airing of the last episode (or when it gets put on for public display on AOD in any case) every episode except episode one gets put behind the paywall.
If you're feeling like you want to get Dangerous, you can have a schedule where you allow free access to the episodes on a rotation of some sort.

So if I wanted to go back and watch, say, Tiger and Bunny, that would have needed a subscription after Mid-October.

I am also not adverse to having to have a subscription to see a stream of something outright ala Fairy Tail but that needs to be fringe, no shoving all the shows under the paywall under this pretence, that's just poor show.

Long runners (IE: a show like One Piece for example) works as above but in blocks of 26 episodes instead of the show's runtime.

TL;DR - Full SD access to the show doing the show's runtime plus a month's grace Free-to-air, Archive and HD/Mobile streaming for subscribers.

If you can't budget for that then something's gone horribly wrong.

 

[Rui]

I don't know how much it costs to licence anime and stream it, but I'm willing to wager it would require quite a few subscribers to be worth doing. If it doesn't, I should start licensing it myself! Locking minor upgrades like resolution and mobile access don't alone feel worth subscribing for: if I am paying more than the masses I also want to receive more content for it, or it's just charity. I subscribed to CR to get faster access, and because I hate advertisements. Hate them. I subscribed to Nico Nico Douga because I wanted to watch more videos at a time without waiting. They both made the non-subscription service worse in an obvious way beyond fringe benefits like resolution.

Advertising isn't an option unfortunately, for reasons described previously, so using adverts to annoy fence-sitters into subscribing won't work.

Unfortunately I see making everything totally free (and with no advertising revenue!) with only minor bumps for paying customers a little like this:

1. Give everyone access to free anime at your own expense.
2. ???
3. Profit.

DVD sales in this country aren't so hot, and probably aren't drastically increased by streaming (it would be nice if they were, though). Advertising has been tried and hasn't worked. If you want subscriptions to be the sole means to make the platform pay for itself then you have to push subscriptions, not just give everything out for free and hope that everyone is charitable about it.

R

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Mobile, HD and Previous Series Archive access, that's the three rewards I suggest for Subscribing customers.

This should be about incentivising subscriptions, not punishing potential customers who will probably latch right onto any number of shows they watch at pace (Tiger and Bunny? Tiger and Bunny, also Persona).

 

[Just Passing Through]

For me this would be a fair compromise...

New episodes for each simulcast series to be shown for free at SD resolution for a week (at same time as simulcast if possible, or one week after a'la CR), after which they are locked away...

and select series from the archives revisited on a TV schedule basis a'la Nozomi style block streaming.

(and Nichijou to be available for all eternity in maximum resolution to anyone who wished it. And to be forcefed into the brains of those who refuse to acknowledge its genius)

That way fans have to remain committed and interested to keep up with their series, and will have the info for when it comes to choosing to but the DVDs, but it isn't free for all, and the Premium content can remain behind the paywall.

Let Premium Content include all HD streams, and support for mobile devices. Non-subscribers should only be able to access the site via PCs and the like...

Additional what if for devices to connect to AoD... Is it possible for Internet enabled TVs to be enabled for the platform. Could you get to work with Panasonic's Viera Connect, Sony's proprietary system, and Samsung's so that content can be streamed directly to TV, the way that Youtube, Acetrax, DailyMotion, iPlayer and the like are at the moment?

 

[reborn]

Also pick up those titles which may have been dropped mid-way during DVD release?

I can look into that but it's a very specific sub-set which usually means the title has been locked down by someone with rights still. Any titles particularly in mind?

Andrew

Originally when I thought of this question, I was thinking back to what I currently have which was M.A.R. and D. Gray Man as I would be interested following these sub only once I finished watching what has been dubbed.

Though this could sort of be extended with possible OVAs. For example Manga stated that the OVA for HOTD would only be released in the UK if there was a 2nd series. Why not use the site to have the OVA and should someone who doesn't have the series come across it, also further link to the entire series of the show via the likes of Amazon?

 

[reborn]

Let Premium Content include all HD streams, and support for mobile devices. Non-subscribers should only be able to access the site via PCs and the like...

I don't know if the current site works on these, but what about extending it to game consoles too?

 

[reborn]

What about trying to get rights to dubbed/subbed only content that isn't viable for DVD sales in the UK but could potentially be a part of either the current subscription or a different one for AoD?

That way you're not only getting attention from those who don't watch subs but you're offering a little more variety.

Looking into that actually as an option -one issue is keeping your digital offerings simple so unless the Annual Pass cost more and had that within it, then it'd be really tough to do.

Andrew

What about having so there is:

The season pass
- Allows you to view anything from the current season + previous season
The annual pass
- Covers 4 seasons + 1 addition season for previous watching
The archive pass
- Covers any season that wouldn't be covered by a season pass at the time and content would be subscription only. Possibly last for 3 months?

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Without the season in SD available without a subscription, it might as well not exist.

It's ether someone get to see [show] in sd whilst it's running in Japan on your site or they're going to go to BT VISION and get it in HD whenever they damn well please.

You're fighting free and better here and doing so with Pay and worse is not how you're going to do it.

 

[Rui]

If you're arguing with piracy, realistically there's nothing stopping people who are intent on resorting to that method no matter what. They'll just say "oh, it's only SD, I'll get the HD rips lol" or "oh, it's available for free for six months but I couldn't be bothered to view in that time" and pirate it for whatever imaginary reason they can think of to avoid paying. I think it's more productive to focus on people who do actually want to support a service by thinking of friendly ways they can do so.

I don't know what all of this "BT Vision" nonsense is, by the way. I can guess, but I think it's better just to use the direct words in a general sense?

Reborn, I like the way you are thinking. The HOTD OAV would be a really cool addition.

R

 

[ayase]

You're fighting free and better here and doing so with Pay and worse is not how you're going to do it.

How the hell do you fight against better and free though? Either you have to crack down martial law style on piracy or you have to get people to feel guilt and switch to paying, neither of which is likely to happen. I don't think those who pirate stuff are really the intended audience of pay-to-stream services. If their consciences don't bother them, there isn't anything that can compete with what they're already getting*.



*Except perhaps particularly shiny desirable physical releases.

 

[Just Passing Through]

Not rocket science; current season, let people see it in SD. Get monies from Home Video and Subscriptions, done.

Unlimited content for free in SD provides little incentive to subscribe at all for a lot of people, which rather breaks the second part of the argument. Sure, some people will, but SD is good enough for me when it's free and I know I'm going to be buying the blu-rays/DVDs later as well. I certainly like high quality, but it takes a bit more of a prod for a lazy person like me to get me to realise I need to open my purse, and withholding actual content definitely works.

The trouble with this is that withholding content that is available elsewhere through illegal means, offers the lazy person a choice of either opening their wallet, resorting to illegal means, or not watching at all...

I have to admit that until Anime on Demand started up this year, my interest in online streaming had begun to wane to less than casual levels. I certainly had stopped keeping up with Crunchroll over the previous twelve months. It was only the new and exciting about AoD that got me interested again.

But, rather than withholding of content, the threat of removing content seems to work wonders in motivating me. Since CR announced the end of their licences on Dec 31st, I've been marathoning Hyakko, Glass Maiden, and Nogizaka Haruka no Himizu.

As well as the lazy and the simply satisfied with SD that will refuse to commit to subscribing, there is also the casual viewer that only dips in and out of shows, or samples only one show a season that won't subscribe. They're the people that might just become the next anime addict, if given enough sugar. They have to be catered too as well.

Crunchyroll are heavily subsidised, and have set a precedent in offering free content that makes it difficult to match unless you're Funimation or Youtube. I wish that everyone was similarly subsidised, that the industry saw the value in making their content easily and freely accessible to counter the fansubs, and act as a loss leader for the eventual sales of the discs.

Unfortunately the real world isn't as simple.

In a climate where anime on TV is not going to happen, I see online delivery of content as the next best alternative.

But to take TV as the analogy, you have your free to air channels, supported by advertising, sponsorship, or government, you also have your premium channels supported by subscription. No TV channel allows you to view when you wish to, and no TV channel has all of its catalogue of programmes instantly accessible at the viewers discretion, free of charge. You can do that for a subsciption, or pay per view, and iPlayer offers something similar, but its content will expire after a time. While some services like 4OD do allow archive material, but little new.

Because online streaming is competing with TV, it has to offer something more. For Crucnhyroll it is that accessibility of content, but that model may not be suitable for all businesses. Anime on Demand has to make money to remain viable. As a fan that wants the community to grow and prosper, I would like as much of its content as possible to be available for free. There needs to be a compromise between these two viewpoints.

 

[jonno394]

Would people be interested in a service where you would pay for an annual subscription ie the £40, watch the episodes digitally and receive a discount voucher towards the hard copies if and when the title comes out on dvd/bd?

Surely a digital streaming service should just be another avenue to get people to buy teh DVD/BD products and not an alternative.

A highly unworkable scenario I know

 

[ConanThe3rd]

You're fighting free and better here and doing so with Pay and worse is not how you're going to do it.

How the hell do you fight against better and free though? Either you have to crack down martial law style on piracy or you have to get people to feel guilt and switch to paying, neither of which is likely to happen. I don't think those who pirate stuff are really the intended audience of pay-to-stream services. If their consciences don't bother them, there isn't anything that can compete with what they're already getting*.

*Except perhaps particularly shiny desirable physical releases.

You don't fight it by putting up a pay wall. You offer a base product for free (which is the show in SD for a limited time (the show, not an episode of the show, the show) and then offer HD and Archives of previous shows for a subscription.

Less walls, more people. Simple!

And if that's not possible then this whole endveor is a massive waste of time and (apparently very limited) money on the part of Kaze which is a bloody shame because, and I will state again, that means that two of the biggest Japanese publishing companies can not do something as relatively minor as allow one island to watch some damn cartoons legally on a world wide computer network.

 

[Hanners]

Less walls, more people. Simple!

Simple until you start actually considering the financial side of things, yes. How are you going to monetise all of these viewers you've brought it to pay for licensing costs, bandwidth etc etc, let alone start making money on the service?

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Less walls, more people. Simple!

Simple until you start actually considering the financial side of things, yes.

In that instance close up shop, you're not actually doing anyone any good.

How are you going to monetise all of these viewers you've brought it to pay for licensing costs, bandwidth etc etc, let alone start making money on the service?

And how are you going to monetise all of the people looking at the pay wall, saying "Ten quid for Just anime? sod that nonsense!" and not bothering any more.

You advertise and then you make the sale. What amounts to a squeak of a fart does not constitute an advertisement.