Anime Limited updates and ideas - DRR / Gurren edition

Two months is chancing being just long enough for people to forget the luner lander and the theme park and those recap movies had their own share of problems (redusing to execute on premice, swapping out a quality cast for midcard Ocean Group actors) which I admit that the GL movies have (sub only).

The real point of contention for me is the Parrel Works as thats content that's "new" which I really don't want relegated to what amounts to a £80 extra on the ultra set.
 
Mangaranga said:
I think one question you have to ask here is just how many people are going to want to buy two compilation films separately. From what I hear the two movies are pretty much the TV series condensed down. How many UK fans do you think actually know about them, let alone would be interested in buying the sub only films on top of the Dual Audio TV series? At the end of the day, I do really think that you need to inform the wider audience about them and pose that question to them, we're only a very small part of the fanbase. Maybe on twitter/facebook, or via a poll on Wakanim etc.? I also have to question whether it's actually cost effective for you to author the extra two discs for the movies and only sell them as part of that limited 1000 print run.
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I think when you open it up to a mass poll that's when things get distorted somewhat - you're almost better jumping directly to a Kickstarter-esque pre-order system where if say 300 people pre-order it then you'll make it happen or such than you are a Facebook Poll.[/quote]

The reason I picked you guys is yes you're a small part of the fanbase but in terms of forum discussion in the UK you're also one of the most diverse as well. Twitter and FB only brings out people who want it at an unrealistic rate - I need to see how much we can bring the original TV series down to but I strongly doubt lower than £69.99 / £59.99 if incredibly lucky cost wise is really viable at this stage for the complete set.

Mangaranga said:
I also hate to say it, but whilst I personally love the idea of getting an ultimate collectors edition set including absolutely everything, is there definitely going to be another 999 people in the UK (and Australia I suppose since I've seen quite a few Aussie's who imported Bebop) who will be willing to pay up to £149 for it on Bluray? If Manga posing the question about GiTS:SAC on Bluray has taught me anything it's that a majority of UK fans expect everything to be dirt Cheap. I mean, Manga asked on FB/Twitter whether people would buy two half sets at a £34.99 SRP each per Season, and people came back saying they'd only pay £20-30 per season, and that's before you address the fact that a lot of people unfortunately STILL stick to DVDs. Like GiTS, you'll also be putting out a product which has already been released in the UK before, so there will be people who bought it the first time round and won't necessarily want to upgrade. I don't honestly know how Amazon works, but to see what interest in the LE is like, would it be possible to create a pre-order page on Amazon for the LE with a mock-up of the final product, put the message out that it's up for pre-order then look at the numbers over time to see how it does?
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Keep in mind Manga, not through malice or ill will, has built up a massive community of people on their old ethos of pile them high, sell them cheap. As we all know though, this just simply does not work though outside of a few key shows particularly in the Shonen space. For the rest you're relying on a set number of people being willing to pay a fair price for the show - in the case of works like Cowboy Bebop I'm pleased to say that's really coming through, even for Perfect Blue we're selling enough to make back the replication & print costs on the entire run when it happens.

So what I'm having todo is rebuild that understanding with a lot of folks who are not as in-touch with the intricacies of anime production as all of you are :).

I do have a fair bit of experience from the Beez days on this too thankfully and experience says that there are between 1,000 and 1,500 people willing to pay for a quality release (eg Gundam Wing Remastered & Wolf's Rain Book of the Moon editions). That said, I believe 1,000 is a good number as it is genuinely limited - it's significantly under Cowboy Bebop Part 1's M1 sales alone for example so when numbered that seemed attractive and in line with the old-school model.

Mangaranga said:
Everything I'm saying here is pretty much the opposite of what I want, but I'm just trying to give you as much realistic feedback as I can. Whilst I definitely think RE BD/DVD are a safe bet, I think that you'd need to reach out and ask more people whether they would be willing to buy an Ultimate Edition or the Movies.

Sorry in advance if this post is a rambling mess. I'm pretty tired at the time of writing :3
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It's not a rambling mess at all - it made a good deal of sense - don't worry too, we'll test the waters a bit more before we advance too but we have some time left :).
 
ConanThe3rd said:
Two months is chancing being just long enough for people to forget the luner lander and the theme park and those recap movies had their own share of problems (redusing to execute on premice, swapping out a quality cast for midcard Ocean Group actors) which I admit that the GL movies have (sub only).

The real point of contention for me is the Parallel Works as thats content that's "new" which I really don't want relegated to what amounts to a £80 extra on the ultra set.
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That's a very good point on both counts, both of which I'd been mulling as well. I don't think any longer than 1 month is really acceptable either on delay between editions and even then I debate whether we should shorten that to two weeks or even no delay. We'll see how that goes and what others in the chain of distribution argue about it.

For the Parallel Works - I can see your point and definitely don't want people to feel stiffed. What we may end up doing is getting as much of the LE content from Aniplex as we can for our own ultimate edition and keeping it on the Ultimate edition only, then author Parallel Works onto the BDs for the TV series.

Wholly possible and you've all got me thinking on that now, let me go to the proverbial drawing boards and see what we can do...

AP
 
Andrew, I personally think that a kick starter/pre-sell for the Limited Edition would be the best way to go. How long would you have before you have to make a decision to go ahead with the LE set or scrap it?
 
britguy said:
Andrew, I personally think that a kick starter/pre-sell for the Limited Edition would be the best way to go. How long would you have before you have to make a decision to go ahead with the LE set or scrap it?
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What would the tiers even be for a kickstarter like that?
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ConanThe3rd said:
britguy said:
Andrew, I personally think that a kick starter/pre-sell for the Limited Edition would be the best way to go. How long would you have before you have to make a decision to go ahead with the LE set or scrap it?
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What would the tiers even be for a kickstarter like that?
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I suspect it'd be:

- Digital package of some kind - PRICE
- Hardback artbook on own - PRICE
- Collectors Edition - PRICE

I'm not a big believer in Kickstarter for generic models as we could and should do those on our own - but an ultimate £149.99 edition may bare some worth doing it as it's not just a pre-order system then, it's an either people support it and help make it happen or we don't do it at all kind of point.

It's an interesting experiment for sure - but would definitely need time to think about it.

AP
 
First off this is what I like to see, companys asking for fan feedback. At least it gives them an incite to what fans like and want.

With Gurren Lagann, although £149.99 is a fair amount to drop, in this case I probably would. Having a release known a few months in advance would be nice, would give people a chance to start saving some cash. However I'm really don't like those fold out digipaks, to me they look and feel cheap. Would rather have proper Blu-ray case inside a rigid box, like what Funi and Aniplex do.

For that sort of price though, the series would have to have the English dub and would have to be either uncompressed PCM or a lossless track.

That's one thing that Aniplex is doing wrong with their Blu-rays in my opinion. The price of Fate/Zero and SAO and yet the English is DD 2.0.

The only problem real problem I see with the price is that it's an older show. Fans of the show probably won't mind, but some may be ok paying that price for a new show, but not an old show. The other problem is most people prefer price over quality. A lot of people still buy DVDs over Blu-rays because the DVD they can pick up for a few quid.
 
For an example of delays between Limited and Standard Editions that worked well for a company, there's Arrow's release of Battle Royale to consider. That had Special Editions of both DVD and Blu-ray versions of the movie released about three months before the regular editions, the differences between the two amounting to physical extras and packaging, and Region Free Blu-rays for the LE and Region B for the RE. Admittedly the price point differences between the two versions of a movie are a lot less than that for a TV series, but fans seemed to get behind the release format...
 
Look who's here, the young adult from Belgium trying to make as little mistakes in English as possible.
To kick off I'll go interfere with the ideas beyond Ultimate LE & Regular Edition, from my point of view as a dubfan.

I personally am set to watch Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann dubbed, and I haven't seen TTGL before!
As far as I'm aware are the movies an alternative version of the television series and they aren't dubbed.
But I love buying anime in chipboard artboxes (or "rigid boxes" like Cowboy Bebop)!
I don't want to buy the movies, but still am willing to buy the version as mentioned in the first post:
"1 TV SERIES Blu-Ray - £69.99 SRP / Rigid Collectors Box (like Bebop) + Digipack with different art to the ULTIMATE / TV SERIES only"
I wouldn't mind the digipack becoming just 2 normal or multiple smaller amaray cases though (to show off more artwork for instance)...

I want to buy the TTGL series with the rigid box. I have no need for other physical extras (I think now) and movies that don't add value to the story.
If they were a continuation of the story that wasn't dubbed I'd be in for buying it (Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS? Madoka Magica movie 3? School Rumble San Gakki?!)...
I don't mind watching an anime subbed every once in a while (as I watched Kiniro Mosaic a few weeks ago for instance) but I'm not excited by the idea of paying for movies I won't be watching as they retell what I'll watch dubbed.
So I'm not excited by the idea of paying about £115 (SRP £150) to own the rigid collectors box while I don't want the movies that retell what I'll watch dubbed & other physical extras I may not or don't want (like sunglasses? drill necklace? Just ideas..)...

That's where I like the plans for Durarara. I'm perfectly willing to pay about £50~60 (SRP £79.99) for that series even though I haven't watched that series before either!
A rigid box, 4 art cards, the full series, dubbed & subbed, HD. It might not be the perfect sum, but you stated before you need that SRP to make back the money spent on DRRR.

It's a bit sad there isn't an option to actually produce 1500 copies of the movies, making them have their own rigid box that fits inside the sturdy Ultimate Box but on its own would be as high as the A5 artbook... So there could be about 500 copies sold seperately later on...

Oh well, in some way I think you (Andrew) should first keep the movies exclusive to the Ultimate Edition and hope authoring/replication/... costs come down even more for 2015 so you can give the movies a seperate release with rigid box later. I just share the feeling the movies on their own won't be viable. I actually think the Ultimate Edition will lose value if all video content from the Ultimate Edition is also available outside of it while the Ultimate Edition is in circulation (the first 9 months or so). It's just a fact that the movies aren't a new part of the saga.. It's not like Madoka Magica Movie 3 where it'd be cruel to not have it being sold seperately...

So I feel as long as I don't get to wait too long and get all the main content in my "regular (limited) edition" set I'll be happy (said as a dubfan, yes).
If I then change my mind and actually also want the movies I'll just have to wait, it seems fair to me.
I wasn't an anime fan when some anime I really want to own now were in print and now I'm waiting, it's fair. It's fair. Fair. Sadly enough. (t)Ough.

So a TL;DR (from my perspective):
- I like the plan as in post 1 more
- Hope authoring/replication/... costs come down even more for 2015 or 2016 release of the movies seperately
- Have a regular complete collection later on in 2015 or 2016. (Simultaneous with a seperate release of the movies then?)

I don't want to screw over subfans who can't afford the Ultimate Edition but there should initially be a premium feel in terms of video content from my point of view also... Paying so much extra has to be worth it... It's just like some people won't double dip on Durarara if there isn't something new on the blu-ray version compared to the Beez/Aniplex release.

Also, we should remember if this was a release by MVM or Manga we probably wouldn't even have gotten the movies, at all. (Though I know that argument is a piece of censored words)
As for Parallel Works, if you get them added to the regular edition I'll be fine. If you don't I'll be fine, but it'd be a nice gain if I could get it in the regular edition.

Either way, if it happens you (Andrew) decide to do an Ultimate Limited Edition (SRP £149.99) and a regular edition without rigid box (SRP £59.99) I'll still purchase the regular edition. A rigid box/chipboard artbox is a preference of mine, not a must. I just cannot afford to spend £110~ to one single anime at the moment when I don't even know how much I like that anime.
THOUGH (!) if the regular edition doesn't have special packaging as described in the opening post of this thread I won't feel as tempted to pre-order it, given some other distributor (or even you guys) could release something else I really want that month. (Though that also could happen if the regular edition got the special packaging I'll still want to get it as soon as possible then, and without special packaging it could happen I'll wait months or years to purchase TTGL)

TL;DR for my purchase:
- I'm most likely to pre-order/order asap a rigid box release with just the series on BD.
- I'm less likely to pre-order/order asap a standard amaray release with just the series on BD.
- Chances I'll go for the Ultimate Edition are next to nihil.
- I'm almost definitely (99% sure) getting Durarara on BD if it gets released as described in the first post.

PS: I like owning a series in chipboard artboxes, and if that's not viable I like owning a slipcover to disguise or hold the amaray case or digipack. And my opinion on steelbooks? Well, I don't like those that much. Cold. Greyish. I'd still buy steelbooks in certain cases, but I consider a rigid box a way better packaging feature. But as said above, if something I want doesn't get any special packaging I'll still buy it as it is a preference and not a must. ^_^
 
Just to offer an opinion on different types of packaging going forward, my personal preference goes as follows:

1 - Digibook: Can be extremely classy imo and look great on the shelf in a collection (I have around 25 movie digibooks and my mate has close to 100). For example you could've made the digipack containing the Bebop blu-rays in to a digibook by making the spine wider and strengthening it, and then having the booklets glued in or as part of it rather than separate

2 - Digipack w/strong artbox: The set you have done for the bebop collections was nice. I can't say i've seen a digipack with more than 4 panels done well. so on one side 3 panels for discs (up to 2 per panel) one panel for artwork/contents?

3 - Steelbook: Depending on the quality of the design this could easily be my least favourite packaging style. I mean this steelbook is tasteful and classy with nice artwork and no blue banner or text on back (yes some steelbooks have one or both of those :/) whereas something like this is awful. Im not too fond on the upcoming Ghiblu steelbooks tbh, too much wasted space and lack of symmetry etc

4 - Standard Amaray with or without a slipcover. Slimline cases re my preference, I have around 30 Hong Kong blu's that look great lined up next to each other . I just find thicker cases we use here in the UK are bulky for no real reason. Art on the inside covers are a must. Slipcovers sometimes annoy me s i'm a uniformity freak, so having a nice line of blue plastic at the top interrupted by an bulky slipcover triggers the OCD in me nd more often than not I throw them away for put them in to storage.
 
I think that the vagaries of what constitutes a premium/standard set and discussions of the different approaches of companies is a debate worth having, but it feels like it's kind of taken away from the original goal of this topic. Maybe it could be split into a separate thread?
 
Ath said:
I think that the vagaries of what constitutes a premium/standard set and discussions of the different approaches of companies is a debate worth having, but it feels like it's kind of taken away from the original goal of this topic. Maybe it could be split into a separate thread?
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Please do, I wouldn't want to witness Andrew being upset by how these posts are going. I'd bring this quote up to remind everyone:

El Presidente of the Almighty Anine Limited's Andrew said:
Not sure I appreciate the implications flying around. This whole thread has spiralled quite significantly - I asked for polite and constructive discussion - not veiled accusations or people getting that bitey toward one another. If this keeps going then I'll be forced to just wind it down next time to avoid causing a big fuss - so play nice everyone, please.

It's cool if there's a difference in opinion or if people are dissatisfied with an idea and either want to offer ideas to fix it or just lodge that it seems a bad idea for some reason.. But there's definitely a way to do that without being rude and I'm happy to say almost everyone has that going for them here so I feel like a grumpy parent picking up the few straggling less well spirited comments xD.
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(Split in progress: Friendly admin is currently playing FFXI with some friends so please excuse the mess while I pick posts out :D)

Ok, anything more about premium vs cheap editions goes here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17985

This topic is now headed back to the original discussion about DRRR and Gurren Lagann and which of Andrew's proposed release methods you think is best.

As this is a thread with meaningful industry feedback involved, it will hereafter be moderated more strictly than normal. Please ensure you keep to the forum's rules and let's all share our ideas peacefully.

R
 
To reiterate my feelings on the matter at hand

As posted in post one for all models, just make them release as close to each other as possible time wise (Like, weeks, at most, a month between BR and DVD because that's how it was with Bebop) and you will have my cash.

Simple, done.
 
If Andrew is still lurking around this thread, I actually have a question, and I'll ask it in this thread as it may have some sort of relevance.

I'm one of those people that won't buy a show on DVD if there is a HD Master available. (especially a PAL DVD as I notice the speedup and it ruins the show for me) Since there isn't a HD master for Outlaw Star, as an example, I am considering purchasing your release of it.
What are you doing when it comes to DVD releases? Are you doing PAL conversions/are you putting out normal speed NTSC discs/Are you doing some NTSC, some PAL etc? Is there going to be any disc lockdown crap like Kaze pull?
 
Andrew (If you're still around), I have one to ask you; how similar will the AL releases of DRR/GL be compared to the Aniplex releases, 'cause I would like to obtain all the fancy stuff for a somewhat cheaper price compared to Aniplex's 'arm and three legs' approach to selling things.
 
theirsbailiff said:
Andrew (If you're still around), I have one to ask you; how similar will the AL releases of DRR/GL be compared to the Aniplex releases, 'cause I would like to obtain all the fancy stuff for a somewhat cheaper price compared to Aniplex's 'arm and three legs' approach to selling things.
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Hey - so basically a chunk of the video extras are exclusive to the JP BD which was imported by AoA for the US release. Namely:

- Gurren Lagann Kirameki*Yoko Box -Pieces of Sweet Stars-,
- Special Drama "Viral's Sweet Dream,"
- Yoko Goes to Gainax - Study Animation at Gainax,
- "It's Summertime! Drills! Gurren Lagann Festival!!",
- Sazigen 3DCG Test Animation Footage,
- Interview with Marina Inoue (Yoko),
- "Believe in the answer that you believe in!! Gurren Lagann Quiz Contest!",

So we're unable to access these extras, even at a fee (which is what I proposed) - I'm pursuing that angle in case there's confusion but for now the similarities would be more that we're including whatever we humanly can including the OVA for the DS in the complete edition and will put together our own artbook for the release pending AoA's final approval. So in short barring the above whatever we can include and prices after cost will be factored in based on that.

For the record - I think what AoA does is very interesting - I know we can't replicate that for endless reasons but conversely I'd never try to undercut their price for identical extras. I'll add in whatever I humanly can though and will never issue a release that doesn't justify its price point for one reason or another though.

Hope this helps!

AP
PS I'm normally around :D.
 
anime_andrew said:
Hey - so basically a chunk of the video extras are exclusive to the JP BD which was imported by AoA for the US release. Namely:

- Gurren Lagann Kirameki*Yoko Box -Pieces of Sweet Stars-,
- Special Drama "Viral's Sweet Dream,"
- Yoko Goes to Gainax - Study Animation at Gainax,
- "It's Summertime! Drills! Gurren Lagann Festival!!",
- Sazigen 3DCG Test Animation Footage,
- Interview with Marina Inoue (Yoko),
- "Believe in the answer that you believe in!! Gurren Lagann Quiz Contest!",

So we're unable to access these extras
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I really wanted the Stars music video! ;_;
Whilst I can't speak for the Beez release, wasn't some of those extras also on the R1 Bandai release?
I know for sure that "Yoko goes to Gainax" is, and I also believe that the Marina Inoue Interview and Sazign 3DCG test footage was too.
If they've previously been on the DVD releases, why are they now locked out?
 
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