UK Anime Distributor Animatsu Discussion Thread

[thedoctor2016]

I think people stream the show then by the CEs well they believe that i expect

 

[thedoctor2016]

Im still so glad ATA releases GL in one set i dont think i would have bought 5 parts

 

[Buzz201]

I think people stream the show then by the CEs well they believe that i expect

I can understand that, but aren't several Aniples shows now OOP and unlikely to be reprinted any time soon?

Re: Durarararararararara!! The standard edition is about $40 less than the original. Yep..

Re: CE model. Pretty much as long as they have the important stuff (booklet, OST, OVAs) the rest can be expendable. I'll be skipping AgK, can't be bothered to have 2 of the same similar sets on the shelf when their QC is meh (though the folks on BD.com have noticed improvement with certain authorings).

The reissue is $130 -- They were charging for $170 for the essentially barebones lunchbox edition that didn't even have correct subtitles for the dubbed version?!

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Aniplex never or at least rarely put out SE's its there business model it works so they will stick to it

It also attracts a huge amount of bitching and moaning, Durarara!!'s 5 years old now, why not put out a cheap version for people that couldn't afford the insanely priced editions? It just feels like Aniplex saying no to easy money at this point.

The one thing Aniplex are nice for is not restricting big extras, so they will almost always give AL OVAs and extra episodes even for the SEs, which is nice as those are the extras I really want.

To be fair though that's because their SE is putting it on the VOD services like Netflix.

Where it can be pulled at any moment. Streaming is not a replacement for an SE, no matter how much they want you to believe it is...

Being frank, if you want Animax stuff permanently on the cheap you're going to have to go Black Hat. That's just how the world is going to be from now on.

My being fair about them doing that doesn't preclude their nonsense (Netflix really should have the HD version of GL and all the avaiable dub material for their shows for one thing) but the age of the non collector's physical is ending as far as anime is concenred and you can ether shake your fist at the metor or get to building the underground city that won't be Springfield.

Or riding some sort of ship. That might be chased after by the Navy. And require beards off their crewmen.

 

[NormanicGrav]

I think people stream the show then by the CEs well they believe that i expect

I can understand that, but aren't several Aniples shows now OOP and unlikely to be reprinted any time soon?

Their attitude has changed since they started. Now if a certain CE sells out they'll simply do another print run. I know for a lot that that's the case because Bakemonogatari (& Nise) as well as Sword Art Online Aincrad sets have been around for 2 years+.

Fate/zero didn't get a second print run because it's been the same stock for 2 years, same goes for SAO's Fairy Dance.

They even started going into the standard edition bandwagon with SAO and I guess Fate/zero if they ever decide to make one next year.

 

[Buzz201]

Being frank, if you want Animax stuff permanently on the cheap you're going to have to go Black Hat. That's just how the world is going to be from now on.

My being fair about them doing that doesn't preclude their nonsense (Netflix really should have the HD version of GL and all the avaiable dub material for their shows for one thing) but the age of the non collector's physical is ending as far as anime is concenred and you can ether shake your fist at the metor or get to building the underground city that won't be Springfield.

Or riding some sort of ship. That might be chased after by the Navy. And require beards off their crewmen.

Why only watch the industry kill itself in Japan, when you can also watch it kill itself in the West too?

 

[HdE]

To be fair though that's because their SE is putting it on the VOD services like Netflix.

Where it can be pulled at any moment. Streaming is not a replacement for an SE, no matter how much they want you to believe it is...

Yeah. This.

Frankly, streaming won't be the glorious future of anime as predicted until absolutely anybody and everybody can connect to a streaming site on a whim. And that ain't me.

For one thing, if I can't own it in some form, I am NOT interested in it. And for another, even if I were inclined to embrace streaming, I simply couldn't do it. My region is so tech backward that I'm currently lucky to secure a stable internet connection for 20 minutes at a time. We lost masts late last year, apparently, and connectivity has been atrocious all across my town ever since. (Amazingly, I decided to start a Youtube channel in spite of this. What was I thinking?!)

So, yeah. Streaming isn't the golden answer, unfortunately. I tried with Daisuke recently and that only confirmed my assumptions. I'm pretty sure I won't be the only one in this boat.

 

[thedoctor2016]

Cant believe FZ only sold out now name must mean more than the quality as with SAO

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Being frank, if you want Animax stuff permanently on the cheap you're going to have to go Black Hat. That's just how the world is going to be from now on.

My being fair about them doing that doesn't preclude their nonsense (Netflix really should have the HD version of GL and all the avaiable dub material for their shows for one thing) but the age of the non collector's physical is ending as far as anime is concenred and you can ether shake your fist at the metor or get to building the underground city that won't be Springfield.

Or riding some sort of ship. That might be chased after by the Navy. And require beards off their crewmen.

Why only watch the industry kill itself in Japan, when you can also watch it kill itself in the West too?

Given they've been pulling this for nigh on 40 years now, I don't think Japan's problems with it's industry stem from it's pricing models. It's work ethics need a solid boot in the arse, aye, but Japan's been taking it solid there as far as phyiscal media since discs were Ultraman Sized.

Yeah. This.

Frankly, streaming won't be the glorious future of anime as predicted until absolutely anybody and everybody can connect to a streaming site on a whim. And that ain't me.

For one thing, if I can't own it in some form, I am NOT interested in it. And for another, even if I were inclined to embrace streaming, I simply couldn't do it. My region is so tech backward that I'm currently lucky to secure a stable internet connection for 20 minutes at a time. We lost masts late last year, apparently, and connectivity has been atrocious all across my town ever since. (Amazingly, I decided to start a Youtube channel in spite of this. What was I thinking?!)

So, yeah. Streaming isn't the golden answer, unfortunately. I tried with Daisuke recently and that only confirmed my assumptions. I'm pretty sure I won't be the only one in this boat.

That's not an issue with the service as much as it is with your area's infrastructure and, sorry, I'm not going to go back to devoting masses of space to shonky plastic discs (to say nothing of the constant delays) just because the arse end of England is having a bad time of it.

 

[HdE]

Also: Completely dissagree with the idea that this is an 'accept the status quo or be prepared to resort to piracy' situation.

Industry figures have been outspoken about teh fact that physical media will persist alongside streaming. The recent Anime Limited / Scotland Loves Hentai (see what I did there?) podcast reinforces that pretty emphatically. And even if fans don't like the way things are presented right now, the opportunity is always there to open a dialogue and tell distributors what you want - 'more affordable releases', in my opinion, being a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for.

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Aye and Japan will tell them to spin on it regardless of how reasonable and backed by market data it is.

 

[mrclt1994]

I am curious, what content, instead of what's on offer, would you prefer for a collector's edition? Versus previous releases, this Akame Ga Kill release looks to me that it actually has more 'extras' than any other set of theirs - the only UK release i can think of that came with more are the UEs for Giovanni's Island and Patema Inverted.

Totally fair question - although, honestly, I'm the wrong person to ask. I just have no interest in the premium format. Give me the show on disc and a box with a sleeve inlay, and I'm completely happy.

For me, anime is all about the actual show itself, and the entertainment it provides. I'll spend more time watching a movie or show than I will ogling the packaging or any pack-in bumf. But I concede that my outlook there won't be the same as everybody's.

My discs are highly treasured and carefully looked after, but that's really more to do with wanting to keep them in a condition that'll enable me to dig them out when I want and keep enjoying them for years to come. In terms of the actual packaging and any additional bits... I think the only stuff I have that fits 'collectors' edition' status is Anime Limited's Royal Space Force and Manga's Attack On Titan blu rays. The extras are nice to have, but my opinion of the release doesn't even consider them. I'd just like to have the show in a format I can keep and own.

Really, I'm opposed to the CE model for the simple reason that I think it establishes a kind of tiered fan base, and I think that making a product available at a high price to comparatively few people (at least early on) could do a show few favours. Where's the accessibility for everyone else? If I had an enormous amount of disposable cash, then I'd be picking up CEs without a second thought. But the fact is, I can't really justify much more than a £30 spend on a show. In fact, I can only afford to spend a comparatively small amount on anime each month - sometimes nothing at all. So anything appearing with a £70 price tag or upwards from there is completelly off the table for me. I don't mind waiting for a cheaper edition to appear, but... I see worrying signs on that front. We've got SE's appearing with inflated, decidedly non-SE RRPs. And we've got SE's being outright cancelled, meaning fans are forced to either pay top dollar or go without. And that sits ill with me.

There's a LOT more I feel I could say on this subject, but I think it's best if I pare it all right down to what I've posted above. And it basically comes down to what I've said for so long on this board - I want to see affordable anime more than I want to see packages built around the notion that a sometimes deeply mediocre show warrants bells and whistles presentation. If that's available alongside a less luxurious option, then I'm cool with that. But when it's not... well, I become a disgruntled fan who feels like he's been priced out of the party.

First of all, thanks for the response, a very detailed answer.

On your point regarding the CE model and making it available to a small amount of people, you're assuming that the given company's objective is to expand the show's fanbase, which may not be the case. Their strategy may be exactly what you pointed out, taking advantage of a smaller group of people - in which case, the CE model is working perfectly. The businesses are here to make money, not make anime widely available as if it were a public service of some kind. You're also assuming that the majority of Anime fans are in the same financial situation as yourself, which may be true, but then again it isn't necessarily true. Unfortunately, until people stop wanting and buying CEs, they will be here to stay.

Also your concern about a tiered fan base, it happens with everything - video games, clothes, even food. People with more money will want more and will be willing to pay for more, thus companies will cater to that market in some way, some companies may not but one of their competitors will. Anime isn't a rationed product to be handed out equally among fans, it's a product, something that is effected by market forces and the spending power of it's customers, since this is so varied, there is inevitably going to be differences in what's on offer.

 

[jonno394]

Aye and Japan will tell them to spin on it regardless of how reasonable it is.

Indeed. Some people don't understand that Japan are an issue (with likely a lot of say on pricing, scheduling, number and style of release).

 

[Buzz201]

Aye and Japan will tell them to spin on it regardless of how reasonable and backed by market data it is.

To be fair, the Tokyo Ghoul Production Committee have let AL come out with an affordable SE for Tokyo Ghoul a little over a year after first broadcast, so maybe Japan isn't universally opposed to giving us cheap releases.

 

[HdE]

First of all, thanks for the response, a very detailed answer.

Always happy to air my opinions on this stuff. And your response is reallywell presented, too.

On your point regarding the CE model and making it available to a small amount of people, you're assuming that the given company's objective is to expand the show's fanbase, which may not be the case. Their strategy may be exactly what you pointed out, taking advantage of a smaller group of people - in which case, the CE model is working perfectly. The businesses are here to make money, not make anime widely available as if it were a public service of some kind. You're also assuming that the majority of Anime fans are in the same financial situation as yourself, which may be true, but then again it isn't necessarily true. Unfortunately, until people stop wanting and buying CEs, they will be here to stay.

I'd not say I thought it was the industry's objective to expand its fan base. But that's certainly something the EVERY entertainment based industry needs to have an eye on right now, in my opinion. I've said in discussions here before that the attitude of 'lets focus primarily on the folks we know we're selling to' is a first step down a slippery slope. From my involvement in comics, I know that any disproportionate attention paid to a pre-existing core audience HAS to be balanced with some effort to attract and 'activate' new fans. Core consumer bases tend to only ever shrink, or at best level off. I can't fathom why, but this is the area I hear the most half-baked and poorly thought out ideas in, business-wise.

On the point about assumptions that everyone's spending power is the same: I don't really think that's the case. But I do know of a couple of little pockets of anime fans online who are around my age bracket who certainly have similar concerns. Mortgages, kids, spouses and day to day obligations will obviously put a stranglehold on what folks can afford. And it's folks I know in that particular boat that are feeling like the market doesn't acknowledge them right now. These are the folks who a £25 - £35 release is still appealing to, and still something their wallets can tolerate. But RRPs far above that make them huff and puff.

I don't think these people are AT ALL indicative of the crowd distributors should be aiming their physical releases at. But it also wouldn't be wise to dismiss them. Consider this: There may be board users in their 20s active here who will preserve ther love of anime into their 40s. Will those fans be happy to accept the kind of apparent inflation of RRPs on products that soem of my generation of fans are seeing? Food for thought.

I'm wondering though if maybe you might have misunderstood what I was saying on this point (I may not have explained myself very well.)

Also your concern about a tiered fan base, it happens with everything - video games, clothes, even food. People with more money will want more and will be willing to pay for more, thus companies will cater to that market in some way, some companies may not but one of their competitors will.

What I'm thinking of here is more a situation where one set of fans (with mucho spending power) can easily afford a deluxe edition of a show while others are left waiting for a SE, like a dog in a banquet hall hoping for table scraps.

I totally agree that the CE format is probably here to stay, short of consumers becoming fatigued by it, maybe. But it can't be the only way to get hold of any given show. That would just be terrible business sense.

 

[HdE]

Aye and Japan will tell them to spin on it regardless of how reasonable it is.

Indeed. Some people don't understand that Japan are an issue (with likely a lot of say on pricing, scheduling, number and style of release).

I'd contend that some people in this thread are very well aware of how much Japanese decision making factors into this stuff. I'd even argue it's possibly the bigger part of the problem.

I don't think UK or US distributors wake up in the morning, rub their hands together and say 'let's think up new ways to screw the fans out of their money!' - if anything, I've heard from enough folks at different levels of the industry that distributing anime is a REALLY tough gig.

The problem, I think, and the whole reason I think discussion of prices is worthwhile is that it'll get even tougher if certain consumers feel alienated or priced out.

And frankly, I care not what folks think of me for saying this: Some of the license fees demanded for shows we get in the West are simply too high. If a studio has to dictate a price point or other details of a release with the consideration that 'we might not sell many units', then it's probably better for them to consider if their requirements are unreasonable.

 

[Buzz201]

And frankly, I care not what folks think of me for saying this: Some of the license fees demanded for shows we get in the West are simply too high. If a studio has to dictate a price point or other details of a release with the consideration that 'we might not sell many units', then it's probably better for them to consider if their requirements are unreasonable.

I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement, given everybody's inferred that from every anime company and it's mother joining production committees in recent months.

The consensus is near universally that asking prices are too high and we're in another bubble, though people seem to think it will pop less violently than the last bubble. Justin Sevakis said on the recent AL podcast that the previous crash was a "perfect storm", and fortunately many of the contributing factors have not reappeared. Andrew also made comments about BEEZ having shredded all of it's accounts, I'm assuming it was metaphorical rather than literal, but it would seem to suggest that maybe companies weren't behaving in a financially appropriate and/or legal manner before the last crash.

It's not particularly relevant, but Andrew also said that a TV series can make it's licence fee back in a month if it's a very very hot property, whereas films would be expected to 3-5 years. (Andrew gave 7 years as the average length of an anime licence at the moment.) With Anime Limited doing streaming as well, I don't think we necessarily need to worry about them incurring huge losses on their titles.

 

[HdE]

Yeah - that stuff in the podcast got my attention too, Buzz. I always find the insights of anime insiders on those issues really fascinating.

It was interesting especially to consider the space of time it may take for a release to recoup its costs in. I gather that this period is pretty elastic, though (to say the least) and that no two shows will perform identically. Justin Sevakis' comments about shows performing in the double figures really underscore that.

Sometimes, I do see shows released by certain distributors and wonder 'why are they taking a chance on that?' And they may not be BAD shows. There may be some aspect of them that makes them a tough sell. MVM's release of the Patlobor New Files comes to mind. Worthy stuff. Great show. But why put out what's essentially the final part of a long-ish series that's otherwise unavailable in the UK?

What interests me there is whether there's room for distributors to play 'swings and roundabouts' with their licenses. If one performs well, could it offset slow sales on another? At what point are low returns deemed unacceptable or a failure? I don't expect quantative answers to any of this stuff, but it's interesting to consider.

 

[Buzz201]

Something that wasn't in the podcast, but it came out recently that Anime Limited only holds digital rights for something (I think it was The Heroic Legend of Arslan, but don't quote me on that since I can't find the post now). It's an interesting strategy on their part, since they're presumably using it to see what's worthy of a home video release and what isn't, hopefully allowing them to avoid any major trainwrecks. I'd assume it will also inform decisions about whether a collector's edition would be viable and what price would be best to charge.

I will shut up now though, because this is hugely off topic (and probably not very interesting).

 

[mrclt1994]

For those interested, Akame Ga Kill collection 1 collector's edition has been listed on Amazon with a price of £85.99 - yeah, I am definitely importing lol.