Why is Neon Genesis Evangelion so darn popular?

[CitizenGeek]

Eva was a well developed, good mech show until the budget cuts undoubtedly affected it, but to my mind that was what made it into something it was never intended to be: Metafiction.

I have no idea where you got that idea from, but I'm almost certain it's not true. Evangelion was, right from the offset, intended to be what it eventually turned out like; a psychological thriller with mech action as the backdrop. Just because the second part of the series emphasisies the psychological exploration more than the first half does not mean that it didn't exist in the first part or that it was never intended to exist in the second part. If you can find for me one single quote where a person who worked on Evangelion speaks of the series becoming something it was never intended to be, then I'll concede this point, but I'm fairly certain you won't.

The "budget cuts" thing is enormously inflated and exaggerated.

And the more I think about that the more I come to believe that might have been the whole point. Anno's frustration with Otakus and Gainax's frustration with it's workload and budget, they seem to be saying look. Look at everything that's more interesting or important than big robots fighting.

I like your interpretation of the final few episodes :]

Eva is always going to mean different things to different people - so what's the point of arguing over it?

This point it almost always made and it's ridiculous. This is an anime forum - discussion and debate is AUKN Forum's raison d'être, regardless of whether people agree or disagree.

@Lupus Inu,

You're really trying too hard.

 

[Lupus]

You're really trying too hard.

That's what I think about you when you try to discuss the complexity and deepness of EVA.

 

[CitizenGeek]

I think that every time when people discuss EVA "philosophy".

I have a mind to ask you that question if you're suggesting that there is no philosophy in Evangelion.

That's what I think about you when you try to discuss the complexity and deepness of EVA.

Aww, you really are trying exceptionally hard. Bless ;]

Just one quick hint: you're not as clever or as sharp as you think you are, so you can stop being so desperate now. Thanks.

 

[MaxonTreik]

I have a mind to ask you that question if you're suggesting that there is no philosophy in Evangelion.

Oh you! Now how I can see something that doesn't exist?

Please note that I'm exaggerating. You are such a card.

Protip: If people are dissing it EVA, stay out of the thread. You aren't going to convince anyone who doesn't agree with you.

 

[ayase]

Eva was a well developed, good mech show until the budget cuts undoubtedly affected it, but to my mind that was what made it into something it was never intended to be: Metafiction.

I have no idea where you got that idea from, but I'm almost certain it's not true. Evangelion was, right from the offset, intended to be what it eventually turned out like; a psychological thriller with mech action as the backdrop. Just because the second part of the series emphasisies the psychological exploration more than the first half does not mean that it didn't exist in the first part or that it was never intended to exist in the second part. If you can find for me one single quote where a person who worked on Evangelion speaks of the series becoming something it was never intended to be, then I'll concede this point, but I'm fairly certain you won't.

Fair enough, I probably won't be able to find proof, but the first episodes were airing while the later ones were still being written/produced right? EoE and the director's cuts of the last eps kinda add fuel to my opinion of this, but I don't claim it to be any more than just that, an opinion.

Eva is always going to mean different things to different people - so what's the point of arguing over it?

This point it almost always made and it's ridiculous. This is an anime forum - discussion and debate is AUKN Forum's raison d'être, regardless of whether people agree or disagree.

I've nothing against debate, you and Lupus (and usually a lot of people whenever anyone starts talking Eva) just seem to be making it a bit personal.

Additional: Enter Maxon to further prove my point. I like talking / debating anime, I don't like having personal arguments with people I've never met. It's a waste of my time.

 

[Lupus]

Aww, you really are trying exceptionally hard. Bless ;]

Just one quick hint: you're not as clever or as sharp as you think you are, so you can stop being so desperate now. Thanks.

It wasn't very hard to think of a simplistic [OH ****, SIMPLE IN AN EVA THREAD!?] post like that.

If you want to discuss EVA, Gb2EVAGeeks, unless you're still banned for being persistant in arguements like you are here, I dunno.

Also, you always seem to say that I'm desperate when it comes to this, you're a broken record, change your tune, son, it needs to stop playing Cruel Angel's Thesis.

 

[CitizenGeek]

Fair enough, I probably won't be able to find proof, but the first episodes were airing while the later ones were still being written/produced right? EoE and the director's cuts of the last eps kinda add fuel to my opinion of this, but I don't claim it to be any more than just that, an opinion.

Didn't you notice the psychological aspect of the early part of the series, though?

. If you want to discuss EVA, Gb2EVAGeeks, unless you're still banned for being persistant in arguements like you are here, I dunno.

What are you talking about now?

-SIGH-

 

[Wildcard]

The mere mention on Evangelion appears to be inflammatory these days, I can't believe that people still haven't accepted the shows divisive nature. I can see this thread potentially continuing for another 10 pages or more.

Niether side will back down so what's the point in bickering so much?

 

[Ark]

The mere mention on Evangelion appears to be inflammatory these days, I can't believe that people still haven't accepted the shows divisive nature. I can see this thread potentially continuing for another 10 pages or more.

Niether side will back down so what's the point in bickering so much?

The problem is that a lot of people who don't like Eva can't just leave it at that. They have to make out that there is something hugely wrong with the show and the fanbase is just too stupid/fanatical to see it. It would be okay if it was intelligent criticism.

Also (and this is a generalisation but I've come across it so much) I find that in a lot of cases when people claim Eva has no depth what they really mean is they didn't like it because it had depth. I can't count the number of times I've come across people attacking Eva for having no depth and then in their top ten anime list they've got nothing but Moe. What else are you supposed to conclude from that?

 

[Ammish]

The mere mention on Evangelion appears to be inflammatory these days, I can't believe that people still haven't accepted the shows divisive nature. I can see this thread potentially continuing for another 10 pages or more.

Niether side will back down so what's the point in bickering so much?

The problem is that a lot of people who don't like Eva can't just leave it at that. They have to make out that there is something hugely wrong with the show and the fanbase is just too stupid/fanatical to see it. It would be okay if it was intelligent criticism.

Yet only Warmaster have made a valid and intelligent arguement about Eva being overrated.

Actually, I'm being harsh there. Some people on here made valid points, whilst Sikies has made immature evil glares (whether its a joke or not, I do not know. Kudos if it is). But Eva is a marmite series. Some people would love it and understand the philosophy behind it. Others will hate it for it's character, a plot that's too good for its own good, etc.

Like I said, I would like to try Eva again. But what can I do if the Dub won't appeal to me at all? It's a very horrible dub and I rather staple my ears shut if people try to argue otherwise. But I abosolutely hate Mecha... unless it's Eureka Seven, then I like it. Well, as long as it's not about the in-detail Mecha droid, then blast off, shoots lots of tanks, etc with little or no plot.

I cannot argue and say EVA sucks or EVA IS THE BEST THINGS SINCE SLICE BREAD because I don't have a opinion on Eva. But I'm far more interested in other series that I'll bound to forget Eva. But everytime I'll visit AUKN, that'll be impossible.

Especially when Evatard and Babelfish are dishing out the love to each other (not intended as a insult. But I'll laugh if you do take it seriously)

 

[Ark]

The mere mention on Evangelion appears to be inflammatory these days, I can't believe that people still haven't accepted the shows divisive nature. I can see this thread potentially continuing for another 10 pages or more.

Niether side will back down so what's the point in bickering so much?

The problem is that a lot of people who don't like Eva can't just leave it at that. They have to make out that there is something hugely wrong with the show and the fanbase is just too stupid/fanatical to see it. It would be okay if it was intelligent criticism.

Yet only Warmaster have made a valid and intelligent arguement about Eva being overrated.

Actually, I'm being harsh there. Some people on here made valid points, whilst Sikies has made immature evil glares (whether its a joke or not, I do not know. Kudos if it is). But Eva is a marmite series. Some people would love it and understand the philosophy behind it. Others will hate it for it's character, a plot that's too good for its own good, etc.

Like I said, I would like to try Eva again. But what can I do if the Dub won't appeal to me at all? It's a very horrible dub and I rather staple my ears shut if people try to argue otherwise. But I abosolutely hate Mecha... unless it's Eureka Seven, then I like it. Well, as long as it's not about the in-detail Mecha droid, then blast off, shoots lots of tanks, etc with little or no plot.

I cannot argue and say EVA sucks or EVA IS THE BEST THINGS SINCE SLICE BREAD because I don't have a opinion on Eva. But I'm far more interested in other series that I'll bound to forget Eva. But everytime I'll visit AUKN, that'll be impossible.

Especially when Evatard and Babelfish are dishing out the love to each other (not intended as a insult. But I'll laugh if you do take it seriously)

To be honest I don't actually know what it feels like to watch Eva conventionally. My Eva experience kind of went;

Watched 1-18
Month gap
Watched End of Eva 20 times
Listened to and read loads of stuff about it.
Watched 1-26

To be honest I didn't think that much of 1-18 initially. It was the film that got me interested in trying to understand the series and then wanting to revisit it. The audio commentaries that Aaron Clark did for 1-6 were especially important in introducing me to the depth of the show.

 

[ayase]

Fair enough, I probably won't be able to find proof, but the first episodes were airing while the later ones were still being written/produced right? EoE and the director's cuts of the last eps kinda add fuel to my opinion of this, but I don't claim it to be any more than just that, an opinion.

Didn't you notice the psychological aspect of the early part of the series, though?

Yeah I did, but it goes a little beyond psychology in the final eps when it starts analyzing itself, and all the possible endings and realities - the funniest bit being when you think they've pulled a Deus Ex Machina with the segment that (sadly in my opinion) went on to become Angelic Days.

You're probably right in saying the general storyline was always there - and the fact that there are psychological undertones throughout I won't argue with. The last two eps and the ending however... I'm still not convinced. If it was always planned out exactly how it came to be then it's no less brilliant, but the storytelling does start to look a little disjointed. I put that down to that fact that it must have been tinkered with, and the fact that they've come back to it twice with EoE and the director's cuts suggests as much to me. But perhaps that was more fan driven and less creator driven than I think it was.

Like I said, I would like to try Eva again. But what can I do if the Dub won't appeal to me at all?

Ah, watch it subbed? :wink:

 

[Ammish]

Like I said, I would like to try Eva again. But what can I do if the Dub won't appeal to me at all?

Ah, watch it subbed? :wink:

I was talking about the time it was on Anime Network. And back then, I wasn't even a Japanese sub fan freak.

I would watch it subbed... Its just finding the time and mood to watch it.

 

[skikes]

i personnally think the eva dub is one of the best out... altho i admit, it took a good few eps before the characters find their feet, probs most noticable with misato :/

 

[CitizenGeek]

If it was always planned out exactly how it came to be then it's no less brilliant, but the storytelling does start to look a little disjointed. I put that down to that fact that it must have been tinkered with, and the fact that they've come back to it twice with EoE and the director's cuts suggests as much to me. But perhaps that was more fan driven and less creator driven than I think it was.

The final two episodes weren't actually what was planned. TV Tokyo was outraged by ep. 24 (in which Shinji beheads Kaworu) and demanded to see the storyboards for eps. 25 and 26 (which resembled EoE; this is evidenced by the drawings that appear at the end of ep. 24 - those were images from the storyboard and they clearly resemble EoE). When TV Tokyo saw the plans for EoE, they told Gainax that they had to change it. So, with only two weeks left, Anno & co. were forced to re-think the entire ending and make it more PG-friendly. It wasn't anything to do with budget, I think.

The Director's Cut version of certain episodes was just Anno clarifying aspects of the storyline.

i personnally think the eva dub is one of the best out... altho i admit, it took a good few eps before the characters find their feet, probs most noticable with misato :/

I agree; I loved Eva's dub - it's probably one of my all time favourites - but it does take a while for most of the voice actors to find their feet. Alison Keith's performance as Misato is truly iconic.

 

[Voddas]

i personnally think the eva dub is one of the best out... altho i admit, it took a good few eps before the characters find their feet, probs most noticable with misato :/

I agree; I loved Eva's dub - it's probably one of my all time favourites - but it does take a while for most of the voice actors to find their feet. Alison Keith's performance as Misato is truly iconic.

I too agree. I had only seen EVA in sub format (3 times) untill this week. Just completed watching the series in Dub for the first time. I also was a little concerned at the start with the characters voices but decided to stick with it as I put it down to being too used to the Japanese voices. So glad I did now as by the third episode I was was loving it. Great dub in my opinion (not many dubs that I rate either).

 

[Ark]

I also prefer the dub to the original Japanese. I just find in the original Japanese Asuka and Shinji sound too childish.

 

[Voddas]

I also prefer the dub to the original Japanese. I just find in the original Japanese Asuka and Shinji sound too childish.

Don't get me wrong. I love if not prefer the Jap VA. I just think they did a great job at translating the characters over in English. My view is probably affected by the fact I'm used to the Sub however. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Wildcard]

The final two episodes weren't actually what was planned. TV Tokyo was outraged by ep. 24 (in which Shinji beheads Kaworu) and demanded to see the storyboards for eps. 25 and 26 (which resembled EoE; this is evidenced by the drawings that appear at the end of ep. 24 - those were images from the storyboard and they clearly resemble EoE). When TV Tokyo saw the plans for EoE, they told Gainax that they had to change it. So, with only two weeks left, Anno & co. were forced to re-think the entire ending and make it more PG-friendly. It wasn't anything to do with budget, I think.

I got that feeling too. There was an Animatic (is that the right word?) in the special features for the final episodes - I was surprised how much of the animation used in EoE was complete in this. Most of the key scenes such as Asuka's fight were almost finished. It does seem as though the original ending would have gone ahead had it not been for the networks intervention.

 

[MaxonTreik]

CG, some people like EVA, and some people don't, The sooner you accept that, the better. Stop telling everyone they're wrong (and don't pretend you aren't or try to feign ignorance because you do that far too often to be sincere).