What is love? (split from the AF17 thread)
- Thread starter Vashdaman
- Start date
MaxonTreik
Chuunibyou
Way to make a pointless post, whatsyourname.Sparrowsabre7 said:
Sparrowsabre7
Za Warudo
Mutsumi said:
maxon. I did some digging =P
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
OK I'm bringing this back baby!
Right so, I'm basically in a bit of a quandary over this girl I've been in a relationship with for a couple of months or so now. I know there isn't a way out of this quandary I'm in (unless I just break it off), but I'm wondering whether you guys and gals think I expect too much or can relate with my concerns.
Basically this is simultaneously the easiest and most confusing relationship I have ever been in. I've never been with a girl like this before, I just can't seem to fathom her, I don't know if it's because she's Japanese or what, but I have never encountered someone like this, she seems to be totally unwittingly playing with my mind. Being with her is so easy, she is the most non high maintenance, considerate, open minded, and unflappable girl I've ever been with. We obviously have had completely different life experiences, as I feel she's led a somewhat sheltered life, and we don't share a lot of similar interests (but as stated in the general convo thread, I've always found that aspect slightly over rated, even if it is nice), but being with her feels so great in a way I haven't experienced with many girls, if any. We definitely seem to have a crazy amount of chemistry in a way I can't quite put my finger on.
But then, on the flipside, she's said some things to me, which I know she didn't mean in any kind of bad way or think would upset me, but they have deeply bothered me. No other girl I've been out with would have dreamt of saying such things. This may sound arrogant, but I genuinely didn't think any girl would ever say such things to me.
The problems in my mind started a couple of weeks or so ago, and initially I accept it was my fault. I told her I felt I could handle being in a long distance relationship with her when she goes back to Japan, and she replied with "that's why I like you" and hugged me. At the time I didn't say anything about it, but the next day I thought about it and over analysed that one thing, let it drive me crazy, and thought she was saying she only likes me because she thinks I'll never leave her. She was travelling at the time, so I sent her this long rambling email telling her my doubts, telling her she needs to think about whether she really wants me, and basically threatening to break up with her (I wasn't playing games, it was genuinely how I felt at the time). She sent me back a really long and totally lovely email, which at once somehow amazingly managed to alleviate all my doubts in one swoop. I accepted that I was maybe being a bit insecure and over thought stuff, and thought I could leave all those doubts behind.
She came back on Valetines day, so of course we saw each other. I was feeling so good and in super romance mode. Somehow through the course of conversation she showed me a picture of this guy friend she was sort of dating (for 6 months! but bizarrely not in a proper relationship with...) before she left Japan. I asked her what she would do if when she went back he told her he loved her a really wanted to be with her. She told me "I wouldn't do anything because I couldn't hurt someone( i.e vashdaman) that likes me so much". :!: :!: :!: I nearly lost my mind when she said that. What the hell was she thinking!? I told her she was totally missing the point, and she ended up backpedaling and telling me she wouldn't do anything because she liked me more. Needless to say I was now not convinced and could already feel my heart sinking. But then what does she do? She follows that up by saying "I like you more than any other guy right now, but there are no guarantees for the future. I might meet someone I like more than you" :!: :!: :!:
WHAT!? Like, OBVIOUSLY! But why the hell is she telling me this on ta bloodclart VALENTINES DAY! That's the kind of unspoken truth everyone in a relationship understands but is never ever supposed to say, let alone on VALENTINES DAY!
I literally couldn't speak, I had all the air taken out of me. So she asks me if she was being "too honest?" :!: :!:
I want to get up and leave. But can't, so just keep sitting there totally speechless.
She realizes that she has ruined the atmosphere totally, and keeps saying "don't worry I won't get with another guy easily"
easily
easily
easily
:!: :!: :!:
She literally was incapable of doing anything else but saying the wrong thing. I wanted to cry. she said "you look like you're about to tears"
I think this is most totally insensitive girl I've ever known. But she doesn't ever mean to be. She just can't help it.
I ask her if she thinks we both like each other 50/50? She seems to completely sincerely answer that she thinks she likes me more than I like her :? :? :? :? :? :?
I was so so very close to ending it that night. But I talked to another Japanese friend the next day and she told me I'm being way too sensitive. So I let it go, and since then it's felt great with her again, like, really great. But then these things she's said suddenly pop into my head and I feel at a complete and utter loss and completely confused and lost in doubt.
Thoughts?
Right so, I'm basically in a bit of a quandary over this girl I've been in a relationship with for a couple of months or so now. I know there isn't a way out of this quandary I'm in (unless I just break it off), but I'm wondering whether you guys and gals think I expect too much or can relate with my concerns.
Basically this is simultaneously the easiest and most confusing relationship I have ever been in. I've never been with a girl like this before, I just can't seem to fathom her, I don't know if it's because she's Japanese or what, but I have never encountered someone like this, she seems to be totally unwittingly playing with my mind. Being with her is so easy, she is the most non high maintenance, considerate, open minded, and unflappable girl I've ever been with. We obviously have had completely different life experiences, as I feel she's led a somewhat sheltered life, and we don't share a lot of similar interests (but as stated in the general convo thread, I've always found that aspect slightly over rated, even if it is nice), but being with her feels so great in a way I haven't experienced with many girls, if any. We definitely seem to have a crazy amount of chemistry in a way I can't quite put my finger on.
But then, on the flipside, she's said some things to me, which I know she didn't mean in any kind of bad way or think would upset me, but they have deeply bothered me. No other girl I've been out with would have dreamt of saying such things. This may sound arrogant, but I genuinely didn't think any girl would ever say such things to me.
The problems in my mind started a couple of weeks or so ago, and initially I accept it was my fault. I told her I felt I could handle being in a long distance relationship with her when she goes back to Japan, and she replied with "that's why I like you" and hugged me. At the time I didn't say anything about it, but the next day I thought about it and over analysed that one thing, let it drive me crazy, and thought she was saying she only likes me because she thinks I'll never leave her. She was travelling at the time, so I sent her this long rambling email telling her my doubts, telling her she needs to think about whether she really wants me, and basically threatening to break up with her (I wasn't playing games, it was genuinely how I felt at the time). She sent me back a really long and totally lovely email, which at once somehow amazingly managed to alleviate all my doubts in one swoop. I accepted that I was maybe being a bit insecure and over thought stuff, and thought I could leave all those doubts behind.
She came back on Valetines day, so of course we saw each other. I was feeling so good and in super romance mode. Somehow through the course of conversation she showed me a picture of this guy friend she was sort of dating (for 6 months! but bizarrely not in a proper relationship with...) before she left Japan. I asked her what she would do if when she went back he told her he loved her a really wanted to be with her. She told me "I wouldn't do anything because I couldn't hurt someone( i.e vashdaman) that likes me so much". :!: :!: :!: I nearly lost my mind when she said that. What the hell was she thinking!? I told her she was totally missing the point, and she ended up backpedaling and telling me she wouldn't do anything because she liked me more. Needless to say I was now not convinced and could already feel my heart sinking. But then what does she do? She follows that up by saying "I like you more than any other guy right now, but there are no guarantees for the future. I might meet someone I like more than you" :!: :!: :!:
WHAT!? Like, OBVIOUSLY! But why the hell is she telling me this on ta bloodclart VALENTINES DAY! That's the kind of unspoken truth everyone in a relationship understands but is never ever supposed to say, let alone on VALENTINES DAY!
I literally couldn't speak, I had all the air taken out of me. So she asks me if she was being "too honest?" :!: :!:
I want to get up and leave. But can't, so just keep sitting there totally speechless.
She realizes that she has ruined the atmosphere totally, and keeps saying "don't worry I won't get with another guy easily"
easily
easily
easily
:!: :!: :!:
She literally was incapable of doing anything else but saying the wrong thing. I wanted to cry. she said "you look like you're about to tears"
I think this is most totally insensitive girl I've ever known. But she doesn't ever mean to be. She just can't help it.
I ask her if she thinks we both like each other 50/50? She seems to completely sincerely answer that she thinks she likes me more than I like her :? :? :? :? :? :?
I was so so very close to ending it that night. But I talked to another Japanese friend the next day and she told me I'm being way too sensitive. So I let it go, and since then it's felt great with her again, like, really great. But then these things she's said suddenly pop into my head and I feel at a complete and utter loss and completely confused and lost in doubt.
Thoughts?
st_owly (witch)
Time-Traveller
It could be a language barrier thing. She's obviously not a native speaker of English, so she might not realise the way she's phrasing things sound like that to you.
If another Japanese friend is saying you're being over sensitive, it could be a cultural thing. Maybe that's how relationships are in Japan, I don't know.
Have you tried sending her an email or talking to her about why these things are bothering you?
If another Japanese friend is saying you're being over sensitive, it could be a cultural thing. Maybe that's how relationships are in Japan, I don't know.
Have you tried sending her an email or talking to her about why these things are bothering you?
Oh my!
Firstly, I wouldn't stress so much over the literal meaning of every single word. My partner jokes that he loves me more than I love him all the time, but it's not meant to be taken seriously and I don't think I've ever been in a relationship where this could be quantified. So long as you both love one another and are happy that you're with the right person then fussing over the amount is not a good use of time. Are we talking percentages or absolutes?! Can you truly say each person feels love in the same way? It has to be enough that both people love one another more than anyone else, nothing more.
She does seem to have a habit of putting her foot in things, but she's probably stumbling over words and trying to work out what you want to hear as much as you're trying to second guess her inner motives. I would read everything she said to you on that date as being 100% honest and no-nonsense, and ultimately what all of her words convey is that she's happy being with you at the moment and doesn't want to shower you with empty sentiments. That's a good thing IMO
If you rephrase her final blow, it's nothing more than the sentiment that it will take a lot for her to consider someone else, which is... normal? She said it in a way which hurt your feelings, but from what you say I think she's still very much into you and it would be a mistake to let insecurity rule your heart. She's happy you want to continue in your relationship even when she's a 12 hour flight away - many people just use that as an excuse to go separate ways. Congrats!
R
Firstly, I wouldn't stress so much over the literal meaning of every single word. My partner jokes that he loves me more than I love him all the time, but it's not meant to be taken seriously and I don't think I've ever been in a relationship where this could be quantified. So long as you both love one another and are happy that you're with the right person then fussing over the amount is not a good use of time. Are we talking percentages or absolutes?! Can you truly say each person feels love in the same way? It has to be enough that both people love one another more than anyone else, nothing more.
She does seem to have a habit of putting her foot in things, but she's probably stumbling over words and trying to work out what you want to hear as much as you're trying to second guess her inner motives. I would read everything she said to you on that date as being 100% honest and no-nonsense, and ultimately what all of her words convey is that she's happy being with you at the moment and doesn't want to shower you with empty sentiments. That's a good thing IMO
If you rephrase her final blow, it's nothing more than the sentiment that it will take a lot for her to consider someone else, which is... normal? She said it in a way which hurt your feelings, but from what you say I think she's still very much into you and it would be a mistake to let insecurity rule your heart. She's happy you want to continue in your relationship even when she's a 12 hour flight away - many people just use that as an excuse to go separate ways. Congrats!
R
Animefreak17
Godhand
Wow I can't believe my rambling gave rise to this
Just be your self you'll be fine
Just be your self you'll be fine
I think rui summed up everything better than i ever could. Language barriers in play or not, i think she honestly meant she wanted to be with you, but her ways of wording things and how she says them are obviously a bit foot-in-mouth.
The other thing i can speak for honestly is, overthinking things can make things worse for you. I've done this a lot, and i know for my current relationship that i do overthink things and it can ruin my view of what we are, not because of something that has been said, but because i see things that aren't there yet believe they are. It's not the same in your case obviously, as she did word things in a way that are questionable, but honestly i think she wanted to tell you she wants to be with you and has no intention of changing that.
I've always found that speaking to others when you start to overthink things helps to bring you back to the ground, so finding someone to just fire your thoughts at once in a while will help too.
Probably not all that helpful? My advice in relationships is rather limited considering i'm only just learning the ropes myself, but i wanted to chip in something. I just always end up overthinking things and selling myself short, to which i get a stern look, a slap or a telling off. or all three on occasion >_>
The other thing i can speak for honestly is, overthinking things can make things worse for you. I've done this a lot, and i know for my current relationship that i do overthink things and it can ruin my view of what we are, not because of something that has been said, but because i see things that aren't there yet believe they are. It's not the same in your case obviously, as she did word things in a way that are questionable, but honestly i think she wanted to tell you she wants to be with you and has no intention of changing that.
I've always found that speaking to others when you start to overthink things helps to bring you back to the ground, so finding someone to just fire your thoughts at once in a while will help too.
Probably not all that helpful? My advice in relationships is rather limited considering i'm only just learning the ropes myself, but i wanted to chip in something. I just always end up overthinking things and selling myself short, to which i get a stern look, a slap or a telling off. or all three on occasion >_>
Lutga
Mad Scientist
From reading your post, my gut feeling would be to call it quits - I was in a similar situation a few years ago, and I could only realise how much my feelings were being manipulated/toyed with once I had finished things.
If that's not for you though, I think it's important you not let this stuff bother you - be confident in yourself and how the relationship fits around your life, don't be completely beholden to it. If one partner becomes heavily dominant in terms of 'power' in a relationship, it never bodes well.
If that's not for you though, I think it's important you not let this stuff bother you - be confident in yourself and how the relationship fits around your life, don't be completely beholden to it. If one partner becomes heavily dominant in terms of 'power' in a relationship, it never bodes well.
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
Rui said:Oh my!
Firstly, I wouldn't stress so much over the literal meaning of every single word. My partner jokes that he loves me more than I love him all the time, but it's not meant to be taken seriously and I don't think I've ever been in a relationship where this could be quantified. So long as you both love one another and are happy that you're with the right person then fussing over the amount is not a good use of time. Are we talking percentages or absolutes?! Can you truly say each person feels love in the same way? It has to be enough that both people love one another more than anyone else, nothing more.
She does seem to have a habit of putting her foot in things, but she's probably stumbling over words and trying to work out what you want to hear as much as you're trying to second guess her inner motives. I would read everything she said to you on that date as being 100% honest and no-nonsense, and ultimately what all of her words convey is that she's happy being with you at the moment and doesn't want to shower you with empty sentiments. That's a good thing IMO
If you rephrase her final blow, it's nothing more than the sentiment that it will take a lot for her to consider someone else, which is... normal? She said it in a way which hurt your feelings, but from what you say I think she's still very much into you and it would be a mistake to let insecurity rule your heart. She's happy you want to continue in your relationship even when she's a 12 hour flight away - many people just use that as an excuse to go separate ways. Congrats!
R
I think everything you say here is quite right. Maybe apart from the fact that it can be possible to be in a relationship when one person likes the other significantly more, and that can lead to problems if the imbalance is too great (I specified percentages to her
) . But she didn't tell me that she thinks I like her more, and that probably saved my ego from throwing the whole thing down the drain. She does definitely put her foot in it a lot with her words, but as you say, she is still clearly learning through trial and error the right way to put things to me and even the right way to express herself, and anyway a part of me has to respect her disarming honesty, which I wouldn't want to change. It does seem clear from her actions, affection and all the things she does for me that she is into me in a big way and I think it's still a road worth exploring. I think a large part of it is having to learn to curb my ego, when she doesn't tell me things I've come to expect based on the experience of my previous relationships. And also as you put it, most of those sweet nothings were empty sentiments, which are just things I've become accustomed to receiving and giving, almost just for the fun of it.@ Lutga
One thing I can't accuse her of is toying/manipulating me. Some of the things she has said have played on my mind, but this girl honestly wouldn't have the first clue how to deliberately play someone. On the contrary I think it's her lack of experience that's the problem sometimes.
Thanks people.
ayase
State Alchemist
Vash, it definitely wasn't me in drag, I promise.vashdaman said:
That is some seriously impressive honesty and matter-of-factness about relationships though, she's a keeper. Honestly I think it's great, despite your concern I was grinning reading that, I'd take someone who tells me the unvarnished truth over someone who skirts around things, doesn't tell me what they're thinking or feeling and expects me to pick up on all sorts of bloody unsaid nonsense any day. The experience of being with someone like that has got to be worth having for however long it might last, surely?
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
hahaha, I knew that you'd be a fan of hers, ayase! Seriously though her unbeautified honesty and matter of factness is rather astounding. You haven't even heard the half of it, trust me. Another example that also nearly had me in tears was early on, when we literally were first getting close, I admittedly got slightly caught up in one of my own characteristic slightly cliched romantic outbursts telling her I "like your aura" and then saying " I feel we have a connection, do you feel it too?". I kid you not, her answer in verbatim was "No, I feel nothing". 10/10 honesty right there. Brutal, totally, but oh so honest. I'm pretty sure on our next date I said to her "I didn't think I'd be your type at first, but then when we first spoke, I could tell straight away you liked me" her reply: "Why did you think I liked you? I just thought I was making a friend". And she's not even trying to be harsh at all, she just doesn't know how to sweet talk and doesn't seem to want to know.
She is honestly quite special. This evening with her I had what was possibly the most intimate and sensual time I've ever had with a woman, and no sex at all was involved! She honestly blows my mind is ways I didn't think it could be blown.
She is honestly quite special. This evening with her I had what was possibly the most intimate and sensual time I've ever had with a woman, and no sex at all was involved! She honestly blows my mind is ways I didn't think it could be blown.
ayase
State Alchemist
Classic. I certainly wish you all the best but hey, if things don't work out you can write a rom-com based on your experiences.vashdaman said:
It's funny you should resurrect this thread now, I recently met someone I'd definitely put a "person of interest" star on if they were a character in Crusader Kings*. I think it might even have been my first experience of "clicking" with someone, which is not something that I thought actually happened in real life. It felt very surreal. After a chance meeting and spending probably less than half an hour together in a situation in no way romantic or intended to be, I somehow came away with her contact details. She gave them to me before I even got the chance to ask, which is certainly the fastest acknowledgement of at least some form of mutual attraction I've ever been involved in. While I don't like to get my hopes up any more for the seemingly inevitable crushing disappointment it tends to cause at a later date, we are indeed keeping in touch, which is nice.
*More CKII Valentine's Cards:
"I would entrust the care of the heir to the throne to you, Valentine, because you have so many positive traits"
"Valentine, I gained the lustful / trusting / sympathy for Judaism / etc. trait because of you"
"I hope your arrange marriage box isn't greyed out, Valentine"
Lutga
Mad Scientist
On a separate note - one thing I've always struggled with is the difference between who you're attracted to, and who (potentially) is attracted to you. Partly because of the industry I work in, the people that are 'similar' to me in terms of interests/personality are generally just guys, but you get a lot of strong, very attractive, independent women for who (and speaking merely from past experience) someone like me isn't exactly 'top of the list' so to speak. They say it all comes down to learning how to chat people up, but I'm pretty sure that just wouldn't be possible with my personality. I tried doing that for a while when I was at Uni and tbh, I just came away from the whole experience more frustrated than before because even after three years, it felt like I'd come no closer to the idealised image I had in my mind of what this whole thing should be like.
But then on the other hand, if I were to go down the other route and try to start actively seeking out girls with the same interests as me, I'd kind of feel as if I was forcing myself. There's very few people who I naturally click with, and it usually takes time for that to happen to. I really, really hate to use phrases like 'oh, should I just settle for that...' but it almost feels like that's what life is asking of me. I mean, if I say to myself 'This is what you should be doing if you want some romance in your life' - then it just seems to be taking the whole point of romance itself out of the equation. If it's just down to following a set of rules, then what's the point?
When I was at Uni I got sick and tired of the endless 'Oh, are you sure you're not gay?' spiel from girls who thought I was 'too nice', or that my interests/personality didn't fit with their idea of what a typical bloke should be. It kind of rubbed me up the wrong way, and the relationship I was in at the time went pretty sour as I was basically at the beck and call of the person I was with. I ended up staying with them way past the time I should have called it quits because I was so desperate for 'anything'. I became obsessed with the idea of being in a relationship, and if I'm honest, has made me pretty cynical to the whole thing since then.
But then on the other hand, if I were to go down the other route and try to start actively seeking out girls with the same interests as me, I'd kind of feel as if I was forcing myself. There's very few people who I naturally click with, and it usually takes time for that to happen to. I really, really hate to use phrases like 'oh, should I just settle for that...' but it almost feels like that's what life is asking of me. I mean, if I say to myself 'This is what you should be doing if you want some romance in your life' - then it just seems to be taking the whole point of romance itself out of the equation. If it's just down to following a set of rules, then what's the point?
When I was at Uni I got sick and tired of the endless 'Oh, are you sure you're not gay?' spiel from girls who thought I was 'too nice', or that my interests/personality didn't fit with their idea of what a typical bloke should be. It kind of rubbed me up the wrong way, and the relationship I was in at the time went pretty sour as I was basically at the beck and call of the person I was with. I ended up staying with them way past the time I should have called it quits because I was so desperate for 'anything'. I became obsessed with the idea of being in a relationship, and if I'm honest, has made me pretty cynical to the whole thing since then.
-Danielle-
Death Scythe
It's either a language barrier or she's just very very honest with no filter.
My bf is the latter. What makes his honesty worse is he'll do something first then tell me. Not tell me he wants to do something. So half the time his honesty isn't so great as honesty first would have me ask him to not do or say half the things he goes and says truthfully he has done.
Sorry for potential confusion and vague there. Go with your gut at the end of the day. Mine has never been wrong so far.
My bf is the latter. What makes his honesty worse is he'll do something first then tell me. Not tell me he wants to do something. So half the time his honesty isn't so great as honesty first would have me ask him to not do or say half the things he goes and says truthfully he has done.
Sorry for potential confusion and vague there. Go with your gut at the end of the day. Mine has never been wrong so far.