Types of Geek?
- Thread starter Ark
- Start date
ayase
State Alchemist
I think people should just stop believing objective quality in something as subjective as entertainment is a thing which actually exists. The day people admit that the reason they like something is actually down to their personal preference is the day they stop being massive arrogant pricks. Not that they can't still discuss differences of opinion (which can be enjoyable) but personally I always prefer debating opinions as equals with respect for each others' POV rather than someone coming at an argument from the angle that their opinion is somehow more valid than mine, which people who believe in objective quality have a tendency to do.Ark said:
Otaku-san
Chuunibyou
Rui said:
I'll have to read that for a book at bedtime.
I feel what makes a critic different to a person giving their opinion is how they present themselves and their findings. I personally say my mind if I see a show that I've felt was worth the time to watch, or heinous to subject people to a train wreck of a show. At this moment I'm kinda lost where this threads heading...
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
To be honest, what even is a geek? Many people might label me a geek (though I can't even recall anyone ever calling me one), and I don't really mind if they do call me one. But I think its a bit unfair how knowledgeable sports fans or music buffs or whatever, get praised and admired for their knowledge on these culturally celebrated arts, while an knowledgeable anime fan might just get sneered at and classed a geek. Though I think people like Helen McCarthy or whoever, do a good job at representing a medium like anime, and maybe might help to change some people's perspectives. Sorry, I'm on a bit of a tangent here (as usual) :lol:, I just find the desire to categorise "geeks" as kinda strange.
ayase said:
Of course a lot of things are down to personal taste, but there are different ways of talking about art that have different implications.
If I say for example "Full Metal Alchemist bored me", that's totally subjective. No one can question me on that because I'm just describing my emotions. If I say "Full Metal Alchemist is boring because it has poor writing" that's a totally different type of description because it suggests that the person is basing it on some kind of criteria.
My problem is when people make the 2nd type of statement, when they really mean the first type. I've seen this countless times. Then you ask them e.g. "why do you think the writing is poor in X?" and they don't have an answer or they just restate their original point using slightly different words.
Just to give another example, I remember this video on Yt where this guy was talking about specific problems he had with The Avengers in terms of its portrayal of gender and politics. Then loads of people started attacking him in the comments section but most of them didn't respond to any of the points he actually made, they just said he was wrong and that they loved the film.
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
I don't really have a problem with the second statement. It's still just based on a personal criteria and obviously still subjective, you don't need "in my opinion" at the end of every sentence to know that. I probably often say that the writing in a show is crap without qualifying exactly why, because I just can't be bothered, but I nonetheless think the writing is crap.
Just take things with a pinch of salt.
vashdaman said:
There's a difference between not being bothered and not being able.For example, I say "I think X has crap writing" and people ask me what about it is crap, and I reply "I don't know". That would make my first statement a lie because there's no reality behind it.
It's not even about qualifying the statement with "in my opinion". People will have varying opinions about what defines good writing, but if you are going to praise or critisize it then it should be for specific reasons.
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
Oh, well yeah, I agree in that regard I suppose, in that you should at least be able to explain your statement, even if you don't actually do it. But then, why would someone claim they think the writing bad, if they don't actually think the writing is bad? Maybe the people who say "I don't know" just have trouble quantifying their thoughts and feelings into words, but for some reason they do genuinely think the writing is bad? Though I agree, it would be strange set of statements to make.
Otaku-san
Chuunibyou
Ark said:
I think that's why this forum always took it on board, even when there was just Paul, that the users always explained in a detailed way why they might have fully disliked or admired a show. Even if the poster sounded agitated in his criticism, it was very rarely we jumped down each others throats, just entered the back door. I think we punished those who made least sense.
Revised rules from Rui has basically put it in stone on how we should portray our posts, but we (and I doubt most boards) can't be moderating "children" that are going to unethical about it. I'm really not sure if my posts are meaning anything, I seem to be invisible to most threads. My name and avatar appears with text due to a bug, I doubt it's going to be fixed any time soon since Rui finds it funny.
Rui's serving the cake
vashdaman said:
In a lot of cases I would speculate they do it because it sounds more impressive than the genuine reason they like/dislike something.
Which sounds better? "I don't like Full Metal Alchemist because the writing is bad" or "I don't like Full Metal Alchemist because it's sad and depressing"
ilmaestro
State Alchemist
I actually am firmly in the pro-objective quality camp, but I feel like my reasoning is basically along the same lines. I also enjoy a healthy debate of opinion, but if you lack even the concept that one of you might be more correct than the other (even if you don't know or can't prove which one) then there is no point in respecting anyone's POV - you might as well be a crazy saying random words pulled out of the sky if you are walking into the discussion under the pretense that "all opinions are equally valid at all times".ayase said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_show?vashdaman said:
ayase
State Alchemist
You don't just enjoy finding out what others' opinions are and why? If someone's opinion differs so massively from my own that I can't even comprehend how they came to that conclusion, I find it fascinating to learn what led them to form such an alien opinion to mine. I'll probably still think they're wrong, but I know that is just "my opinion" and as Vash says, I don't feel need to clarify that every time I'm expressing an opinion. Hell, everything I say is "my opinion" - It can't be anybody else's and (difficult though it may be to believe) I don't actually consider my views any more authoritative than anyone else's.ilmaestro said:
The way I look at objectivity is this: An objectively bad knife is one that's blunt. It doesn't serve its intended purpose, it fails at being a knife. Entertainment cannot ever be this objectively bad because even if you or I can't stand it, as long as it has entertained somebody, somewhere, it has still succeeded as entertainment. If there was such a thing as entertainment that was able to garner a positive reaction from a hundred percent (or zero percent) of the audience exposed to it then yes, I admit it could be classed as objectively good or bad. However, I don't think such entertainment has ever existed and nor is it likely to exist until Earth is entirely populated by clones (or robots) with identical tastes.
I sense greatly amusing flamebait potential in a thread where people suggest the objectively worst/best things ever, only to have their worlds crash down when people with dodgy taste (like me) swing by.
What the ongoing discussion seems to have shown is that the issue isn't really about types of geek, or fans/critics. It's just articulate people who reason out their stance versus people who wing it based on their gut feelings alone, and I completely understand why someone might prefer to talk to one or the other type of person in that case.
(Though I still don't see myself - or most other people - as neatly fitting either extreme.)
R
What the ongoing discussion seems to have shown is that the issue isn't really about types of geek, or fans/critics. It's just articulate people who reason out their stance versus people who wing it based on their gut feelings alone, and I completely understand why someone might prefer to talk to one or the other type of person in that case.
(Though I still don't see myself - or most other people - as neatly fitting either extreme.)
R
ilmaestro
State Alchemist
I do, but only because I believe they might be correct. Otherwise it has about as much relevance as what they like to eat for dinner, what they name their pets, or what color they paint their walls. I guess if completely superfluous information is your thing it might still be interesting.ayase said:
neptune2venus
Hunter
I guess I fit the critic: I have a degree in Psychology and can't have fun watching anything without picking it apart. But I can't help it!
Nothing wrong with opinions either - it is always good to have a healthy debate now and again.
Nothing wrong with opinions either - it is always good to have a healthy debate now and again.
-Danielle-
Death Scythe
i'm not sure what type i am. i think im an ocd one as i tend to become obsessed with an actor or voice actor to the point where i then have to own lots they are in/voice for. like i'd imdb them, read about what they've been in and go buy. to be fair thats how i find many a good anime when following vic mignogna and richard epcar (who always says happy birthday to me on my facebook btw!!! )
i dont cosplay yet love looking, i dont really play games (duno why) yet love watching their trailers (assassins creed 4 omg!) and cut scenes, i want an alienware pc purely because of how it looks haha. stuff like that.
i dont dress like one, i dress how i feel which can change from converse jeans vest to a dress with pumps. although, atm im DYING to get a vest top/tshirt with a wolf on. omg you have no idea!
)i dont cosplay yet love looking, i dont really play games (duno why) yet love watching their trailers (assassins creed 4 omg!) and cut scenes, i want an alienware pc purely because of how it looks haha. stuff like that.
i dont dress like one, i dress how i feel which can change from converse jeans vest to a dress with pumps. although, atm im DYING to get a vest top/tshirt with a wolf on. omg you have no idea!