Types of Geek?

A

Ark

Adventurer
Hi there,

I have a question regarding the way different types of Geek are catergorised. When I say "catergorised" I'm talking more in terms of how they approach the things they're fans of rather than the specific fandoms they belong to.

Is there an existing term for geeks who aren't very discriminating in their media consumption? On the web at least, I seem to come across a lot of people in some cases who are intelligent but are totally uncritical when it comes to their fandom. Basically, if something has a geeky quality, it's automatically a 4 out of 5?
 
I give this post a 6/10, for that's all I'm paying for it. Why it's daylight robbery! When I can uncriticises it for nothing!
I'll get to how's and where's on the follow up
 
Is there a term for people who are more worried about what other people think of their hobbies than just enjoying things for themselves? ^^;

To answer the question, I'd call that kind of person "someone who knows what they like", as they presumably try to stick to watching/reading/playing things they have an inkling they'll enjoy instead of getting hung up on tearing the object of their attention apart. I don't think there's anything wrong with criticism (it's a perfectly valid hobby in itself), but it's become terribly fashionable lately to present a world where simply having fun is unusual. Ehh.

One thing which I often hear in the never-ending sub/dub battle threads, for example, is the counter "If you aren't watching in English, how can you tell if the voice acting is bad?". Ignoring the obvious fallacies for now, phrased that way around it makes it sound as though the speaker's enjoyment of the audio track is directly linked to how much they can criticise it...

It's strange how differently people see the world. Strictly speaking, in many cases I suppose a 'geek' who has a rose-tinted affection for their hobby would be a 'fan', as opposed to a general 'geek', perhaps? Especially when you consider that it probably derives from 'fanatic'.

As an aside I'm sort of uncomfortable with the concept of giving 'geeks' further categories. The 'geek' category is vague enough, since nowadays it seems to include everyone who has ever watched an episode of Star Trek, read a Harry Potter book or picked up an Xbox controller.

R
 
Rui said:
It's strange how differently people see the world. Strictly speaking, in many cases I suppose a 'geek' who has a rose-tinted affection for their hobby would be a 'fan', as opposed to a general 'geek', perhaps? Especially when you consider that it probably derives from 'fanatic'.
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It's not so much in regard to people who are uncritical towards their own specific fandom. It's more Geeks who are generally just uncritical towards anything "geeky" they watch. This was kind of inspired by Big Bang Theory. When I started watching that, I thought it was a bit unrealsitic because I couldn't see these guys who are all scientists with advanced degrees watching some of the stuff they do. Now I realise there are really people like that.
 
Ark said:
Rui said:
It's strange how differently people see the world. Strictly speaking, in many cases I suppose a 'geek' who has a rose-tinted affection for their hobby would be a 'fan', as opposed to a general 'geek', perhaps? Especially when you consider that it probably derives from 'fanatic'.
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It's not so much in regard to people who are uncritical towards their own specific fandom. It's more Geeks who are generally just uncritical towards anything "geeky" they watch. This was kind of inspired by Big Bang Theory. When I started watching that, I thought it was a bit unrealsitic because I couldn't see these guys who are all scientists with advanced degrees watching some of the stuff they do. Now I realise there are really people like that.
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So rather than saying "that geek" is a geek because they like Marvel, but more on the lines of "a geek" because they like Tabletop games, comics and consoles altogether. And the question you're asking is if that group of geeks would vote more favourable/give higher judgement and opinions towards Star Trek and Batman compared to a posh person or other general personalities? (As a biased viewpoint.)

To be blunt - A fan of something will most likely have a better insight to the subject than any of the others. To be critical of it as a fan, you'd have to both enjoy it and look into the finer details and be willing to both criticize the plot-holes/faults of the subject as well as project all the good things that come from it. Most fans I'd guess would be happy with watching a show and just get a giggle from it, or be scared of it or even learn from it. (This is in general, not based on the geek group.)

However, I think that there is a fair amount of fans who are very critical about things from football to politics and so on. And there is a large proportion of that in the geek society that are more critical in that retrospect than others - I have friends who read Marvel comics, and have so for a while. And they talk about the funny things, but also get annoyed when something is out-of-place in a character. However, I'm less critical of these things and just enjoy it for the show. I watched the 1st of the newer Star Trek movies, and I knew that if I were to watch it as a "Trekkie" I'd not enjoy it. So take the eye of a generic movie fan, and I did like it - action packed, nice ships. But I still found the Romulans weird as a fan's perspective, even though it made a some-what decent back story in that universe.

So yeah - You can have the blind fans, the outsider perspective and the critics as major slices of the pie. I think Geeks will cover a lot on the Critical side, but I'd be quite confident there's a lot of biased fans too, to balance the opposing forces of ignorance and scrutiny. I'd like to believe with the friends I have, there are more Critics than Blind fans, but there are a LOT of people out there...
 
Why so much negativity towards fans who can just enjoy what they like without having to find fault with it? By not criticising things, they are expressing an opinion that is every bit as valid as those who winge and complain about things. It is foolish and arrogant to say that fans who do not criticise are blind or ignorant. Who are you critics to presume to tell others what opinions they are supposed to have about something?
 
Mutsumi said:
Why so much negativity towards fans who can just enjoy what they like without having to find fault with it? By not criticising things, they are expressing an opinion that is every bit as valid as those who winge and complain about things. It is foolish and arrogant to say that fans who do not criticise are blind or ignorant. Who are you critics to presume to tell others what opinions they are supposed to have about something?
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Personally, I'm not winging about it. I myself can be quite blissful when I'm just an outsider-looking-in and have enjoyed such experiences. I may not get everything about the subject, but I dont know every single story that's involved in the Games Workshop universe, and I still enjoy it as much as the gamers that have read all the Horus Heresy books, the Path of the (Eldar) series, Gotrek and Felix, various codex and so on. It's about how much a person is involved in that activity or hobby or viewing. A Critic will look into every detail of something, which may give a positive and/or negative response to their experiences within that fandom - of which they may share with others. Someone who is more into a light-hearted/easy-going approach to something may be missing facts about the series/activity, and if they enjoy it without pain-staking accuracy, then they're not losing out of much if they're not fully into something. However, if they join a group who are hardcore critics and think they know the scope of things, they should expect to be told more than they realise about it.

It is not a negative/wrong thing to enjoy something if you're not 100% involved - heck, if you've only just seen it, you may become a new fan and then maybe a critic.
Let's take FMA for an example. I have never read the mangas. I liked the 1st anime series, even when the critics who said it was lame when they didn't stick to the story. I did enjoy Brotherhood as well, which I believe follows the manga better.
So even if the 1st series is inaccurate, I liked it. As a fan, I can also say what I preferred in each series. But I was still quite ignorant to the original story until Brotherhood came by. So no, I'm not criticising/demonizing the blind/ignorant fans by saying what they are, because we all are one at a time. Just that they dont have the whole package, like comparing a decent Limited Edition pack to a Standard Edition pack.
 
I disagree that a Critic is necessarily a more intelligent, discerning or passionate fan. I see Critics and Fans as different approaches to the same kind of thing; some people get into something with a negative slant to their appreciation, others dive in and just enjoy it. Normally, I don't see why it would be necessary to tell the two apart.

I stopped replying initially as I was slightly aggrieved by the implication that scientists with degrees were somehow 'above' liking their hobbies without being judgemental about them (I've never watched BBT and might have misunderstood, but that's what I thought it meant). I know plenty of people with illustrious degrees in the sciences and they're just as apt to unquestioningly enjoy terrible television talent shows and cheesy entertainment as anyone else would be ^^;

The topic seems to be very uh, anti-fan and pro-critic. I don't see how the fans' enjoyment lessens that of the critics in some way.

R
 
Agreeing with you, Rui, this thread seems anti-fan to me. Personally I feel pity towards the critics; them enjoying something less is their loss.

Chaz, you seem to be making the closed-minded presumption that people who have experienced 100% of a franchise's material will all reach the same conclusions about things and criticise the same things, and that non-critic fans must not have experienced it all if they are not criticising.

Essentially that is saying that critics are better than non-critics. That having a negative opinion makes you more valid as a fan.

Which is f*cking retarded. Critics are people who, because they did not enjoy whatever, are adamant that others also not enjoy it for the same reason, and that those who did enjoy it should feel bad or be considered lesser fans for it.

A proper fan is one who would encourage others to enjoy what they enjoy. They don't have to have experienced 100% of the material, and they don't have to think everything is perfect and above criticism. Anyone who berates someone for enjoying something is an asshole. Original Trilogy elitists are a prime example; Jar Jar may have been unnecessary from the perspective of existing fans of the franchise, but he didn't ruin the movie.

So basically, critics are to be pitied because the way they are prevents them from enjoying things fully, and this compels them to share their lack of enjoyment so that others also enjoy it less.

Is this enough to restore the fan/critic balance here, Rui? :D
 
::raises hand::

Can I greatly enjoy something but still massively criticise it for even minor faults because I also actively enjoy the process of picking holes in things, thinking up fitting insults and the fact that my OTT criticism seems to entertain other people? Spare a thought for those of us who are sustained mainly by anger and for whom the opportunity to be annoyed about something comes as a welcome relief.
 
*Reads Mutsumi's post while listening to Tiny Tim's "Living in the Sunlight, Loving in the Moonlight."*
Seems like most of my recent views (politically or otherwise) seemed to be closed minded or black/white with no grey areas. And that seems to make me retarded...Well, if nothing else, at least I've said something to get a fellow member to react to my post to give it meaning. (Considering it's a discussion, not a Read-only file.)
Personally, I'll just say this last thing before I make this into another tiresome argument: Maybe some critics enjoy finding the faults, but some may ACTUALLY like to bring up certain things and make their own predictions or assumptions to story/skills etc. Not too sure I stand by Ayase's anger management (as I'm sure some people like to do it purely to be heard or give feedback), but I stand by his logic of entertaining others while he scourges the fine details.

I'm not going to answer or argue about how accurate Mutsumi (or anyone else) views "proper fans" and or the validity of a fan, critic or not. I'll continue reading 'til my hearts content... While I listen to some chilled out music.
*I.e. Stand and Deliver - Adam and the Ants (a.k.a. Adam Ant.)
 
ilmaestro said:
Criticism != being negative and finding things to complain about.
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This. A critic is someone who critiques things. By definition, a critique is not negative. It is merely a qualitative analysis of a subject or work.

Also, I hate the idea of labeling people because they like certain things. Pigeon holing doesn't help anyone.
 
I don't think I've actually ever met anyone who never critiques anything (even if non-geeky activities are filtered out, whatever they may be). I see being the kind of person who enjoys the things they're doing as the ideal, though, not something to look down on (as the original posts seemed to be implying).

R
 
Rui said:
I stopped replying initially as I was slightly aggrieved by the implication that scientists with degrees were somehow 'above' liking their hobbies without being judgemental about them (I've never watched BBT and might have misunderstood, but that's what I thought it meant). I know plenty of people with illustrious degrees in the sciences and they're just as apt to unquestioningly enjoy terrible television talent shows and cheesy entertainment as anyone else would be ^^;
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I guess i found it difficult to understand because I can't really relate.

I'm definately a critic and I can't really turn it off but I don't think there's anything wrong with being a fan. I think my problem comes in when I see people trying to be both at the same time. For example, they may like/dislike an anime for emotional reasons/personal preferences but they'll then try to come up with objective reasons why it's good/bad.
 
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