The General Conversation Area

[Buzz201]

College/university Its the same thing, that being a waste of money and recruitment grounds for the far left

Do you believe all the crap you read in the papers? I've yet to see any of this liberal indoctrination the Mail talks about? My lecturers are all to scared to even give a professional opinion on Brexit, and I do a bloody finance course (so it would be justified for them to do so)...

Hell, the one time I saw a communist, they were stood outside the gates cos they weren't allowed in.

 

[thedoctor2016]

College/university Its the same thing, that being a waste of money and recruitment grounds for the far left

Where has every Tory leader in recent memory started oh yeah the Oxford Uni Tory club....
SO not only Far left

 

[Rui]

The only people who think it's discrimination are the feminist and the social justice warriors. Maybe you should get out your safe space and talk to people who aren't your typical college snowflakes who get there opinions from there gender studies professor.

It is discrimination. The degree to which it matters in a practical sense is a fair topic for debate and what ayase started off by querying, but if you're taxing something which only one group can and must use with no equivalent then you're taxing that group more than the other. The counterexamples of razors and so on aren't a fair comparison. There are plenty of things which discriminate in the other direction too in life, plus things which discriminate against groups of men and women united by some other factor besides gender.

These days simply disagreeing with WOMEN is sexist or as the kids like to call it mansplaining

I didn't use the word, and would never personally use it outside of jokes with my other half, but you know, coming onto a forum and telling women how to have periods better like you did earlier is pretty much a textbook definition of mansplaining. I don't think you could possibly have done it better.

I'm going to shut this debate down officially if it gets much worse by the way. Hating on feminists has no place here; there are plenty of 'safe spaces' for that elsewhere.

R

 

[ayase]

Also if you are a Labour member you should want a tax the rich not the poor the 15p tax will only effect the poor so you should be opposed to it by Labour’s whole principle of shared equality

Then let's do away with VAT! But why this one, tiny tax which is considerably lower than VAT on things like say, clothes which cost poor people a lot more than tampons do. The answer, it seems, is because it's a nice divisive tactic for the media to campaign for and get an easy victory which will achieve very little. And then they can all talk about how great they are.

And honestly, Ken, your own opinions might be a lot more interesting than whatever talking points you picked up from 4chan or Reddit today.

 

[thedoctor2016]

Then let's do away with VAT! But why this one, tiny tax which is considerably lower than VAT on things like say, clothes which cost poor people a lot more than tampons do. The answer, it seems, is because it's a nice divisive tactic for the media to campaign for and get an easy victory which will achieve very little.

And honestly, Ken, your own opinions might be a lot more interesting than whatever talking points you picked up from 4chan or Reddit today.

It isnt in the media currently rn its about Green and The Mobility Committee so other political issues are happening. It is a easy thing to sway people on but It is still unjust imo

 

[ayase]

If I can just say as well, this isn't quite what I wanted but it's still been slightly better than I feared it might be.

I don't think we get anywhere by keeping our opinions to ourselves - We have to discuss and debate in order to understand each other, and it was my incomprehension sat here reading articles by myself that led me to (hesitantly) bring this up. While I still don't agree with the way this issue is being discussed and presented in the mainstream, I do understand it a little better now. And I know not everyone who thinks it's worth fighting is a delusional nutjob like most of the journalists are. So thanks for that.

 

[Watanabe Ken]

And honestly, Ken, your own opinions might be a lot more interesting than whatever talking points you picked up from 4chan or Reddit today.

None of our opinions are entirely pure untainted by outside influences be they the words of an individual or the actions of a group I can't speak on 4chan because I've never been on it ( I actually thought it was a Japanese website where Japanese trolls make memes) but my reddit interactions mostly consist of posting on GOT/ASOIAF subreddits mostly trying to convince people the Jon Snow is Azor Ahai Reborn and if anyone tells you it's Daenerys then there lying.

Do you believe all the crap you read in the papers? I've yet to see any of this liberal indoctrination the Mail talks about? My lecturers are all to scared to even give a professional opinion on Brexit, and I do a bloody finance course (so it would be justified for them to do so)...

Hell, the one time I saw a communist, they were stood outside the gates cos they weren't allowed in.

I don't actually read news papers and actively try to avoid current events because they tend to irritated me.

How did you know he was a communist did he have a flag?

It is discrimination. The degree to which it matters in a practical sense is a fair topic for debate and what ayase started off by querying, but if you're taxing something which only one group can and must use with no equivalent then you're taxing that group more than the other. The counterexamples of razors and so on aren't a fair comparison. There are plenty of things which discriminate in the other direction too in life, plus things which discriminate against groups of men and women united by some other factor besides gender.



I didn't use the word, and would never personally use it outside of jokes with my other half, but you know, coming onto a forum and telling women how to have periods better like you did earlier is pretty much a textbook definition of mansplaining. I don't think you could possibly have done it better.

I'm going to shut this debate down officially if it gets much worse by the way. Hating on feminists has no place here; there are plenty of 'safe spaces' for that elsewhere.

R

Feminism was a great thing up to 90's I would happily call myself a feminist if the 2nd generation were running it but unfortunately they were kicked out for not signing up to the whole toxic masculinity white men are route of all evil brigade .

But fret not I'll not bring it up again seeing as it seems to rub people up the wrong way.

 

[Luna]

This whole debate has me very much reminded of this:

The most dazzling information I personally take out of the debate is, you have no VAT on books? Like zero, null and nil? O_O

 

[ayase]

None of our opinions are entirely pure untainted by outside influences be they the words of an individual or the actions of a group I can't speak on 4chan because I've never been on it ( I actually thought it was a Japanese website where Japanese trolls make memes) but my reddit interactions mostly consist of posting on GOT/ASOIAF subreddits mostly trying to convince people the Jon Snow is Azor Ahai Reborn and if anyone tells you it's Daenerys then there lying.

Well I have and do, so believe me when I say a lot of your posts on the previous page could have been copied verbatim from troll posts I've seen there roughly a million times before. And the reason those kinds of buzzword filled statements "rub people the wrong way" is because there's a difference between discussion and debate with a level of respect for people who think and believe differently and simply stating controversial opinions in an attempt to rile people you don't like.

Now it's possible you may not have been doing that, but I struggle to believe that wasn't your intention, because what kinds of responses did you actually want to telling women what sanitary products they should be using, or telling people if they have a certain belief about one issue they must belong in your own personal basket of deplorables, or telling people university is political indoctrination. Can you see that's quite condescending and presumes the people you're talking to are dumb (and we have names, and we all talk about anime and manga together, we're not faceless nobodies to each other so I kind of hope you respect your fellow AUKN members at least a bit), and is more like flinging generalised political sh*t from the sidelines than actually joining in a discussion?

I personally (though obviously I don't speak for everyone) don't have a problem with people holding opinions, whatever they are. Not you, not Buzz or thedoctor or any of the other more politically inclined members or the forum, whether you want peace and love or to hang 'em all and let God sort 'em out. But I think people would probably like to be able to discuss your opinions with you rather than just feel like they're having them thrown at them specifically to piss them off. That's what it looked like, and that's why I didn't reply to your posts. Because if 4chan has taught me one thing, it's not to feed the trolls.

 

[Rui]

Everyone is giving good advice (and that's right Luna, the things we class as essentials here are a bit... strange) but I'm going to foolishly wade in again on one tiny point:

Feminism was a great thing up to 90's I would happily call myself a feminist if the 2nd generation were running it but unfortunately they were kicked out for not signing up to the whole toxic masculinity white men are route of all evil brigade .

Ken, toxic masculinity doesn't mean that feminists think that men are toxic, or that white men are all toxic. There are a lot of male feminists and they aren't all self-hating contrarians. It means that some elements of what is classed as traditional masculinity are toxic to men, such as not being able to talk about emotions or bad experiences without being belittled, or not being able to access mental health support as easily as women, or not being able to have female friends because it's unmanly, or having to act in a homophobic way because being respectful to gay men is viewed as emasculating somehow. It's not an attack on men, it's an attack on the social structures we keep passing down which trap men as much as they do women into repeating the same harmful behaviours. I'm sure some feminists (or trolls) misunderstand and go all-in on the man-hating but I honestly don't see that nearly as much as the backlash against this imaginary enemy and its non-existent war on men.

I'd like to think we can all be friends?

R

 

[IdiomaticLynx]

The most dazzling information I personally take out of the debate is, you have no VAT on books? Like zero, null and nil? O_O

Yeah, it also surprised me when I found that out. I wanted to add a book to my Amazon.co.uk order and noticed it jumped up in price remarkably. Normally it's only a small amount when adjusting the VAT rate, but in the case of books it goes form 0% to 6% . Just the idea that something is exempt of VAT feels so foreign.

I assume this is also the reason that both Book Depository and Wordery are UK-based.

 

[Buzz201]

I think the most amusing one is biscuits being essential, but cakes not. (Leading to an infamous court case about whether Jaffa Cakes are cakes or biscuits.) Or perhaps eating in a restaurant is not essential, but taking the food away is?

 

[Watanabe Ken]

Well I have and do, so believe me when I say a lot of your posts on the previous page could have been copied verbatim from troll posts I've seen there roughly a million times before. And the reason those kinds of buzzword filled statements "rub people the wrong way" is because there's a difference between discussion and debate with a level of respect for people who think and believe differently and simply stating controversial opinions in an attempt to rile people you don't like.
.

Na I respect and love everyone and my opinions aren't that controversial

 

[Watanabe Ken]

Everyone is giving good advice (and that's right Luna, the things we class as essentials here are a bit... strange) but I'm going to foolishly wade in again on one tiny point:



Ken, toxic masculinity doesn't mean that feminists think that men are toxic, or that white men are all toxic. There are a lot of male feminists and they aren't all self-hating contrarians. It means that some elements of what is classed as traditional masculinity are toxic to men, such as not being able to talk about emotions or bad experiences without being belittled, or not being able to access mental health support as easily as women, or not being able to have female friends because it's unmanly, or having to act in a homophobic way because being respectful to gay men is viewed as emasculating somehow. It's not an attack on men, it's an attack on the social structures we keep passing down which trap men as much as they do women into repeating the same harmful behaviours. I'm sure some feminists (or trolls) misunderstand and go all-in on the man-hating but I honestly don't see that nearly as much as the backlash against this imaginary enemy and its non-existent war on men.

I'd like to think we can all be friends?

R

I'm going to have politely disagree with your description of so called toxic masculinity but don't worry I still respect and love you as a person

 

[ayase]

So you were trolling and ignoring you was the right option, gotcha.

 

[Watanabe Ken]

So you were trolling and ignoring you was the right option, gotcha.

There is no right or wrong option just do what you think is right, anyhow I've got to go now..... bye bye love you

 

[Luna]

Yeah, it also surprised me when I found that out. I wanted to add a book to my Amazon.co.uk order and noticed it jumped up in price remarkably. Normally it's only a small amount when adjusting the VAT rate, but in the case of books it goes form 0% to 6% . Just the idea that something is exempt of VAT feels so foreign.

I assume this is also the reason that both Book Depository and Wordery are UK-based.

Over here buying gold (but not silver or any other metals) as bars and coins are free as well as post stamps. So I wasn't totally foreign to the notion.
Was quite intrigued to find about about the gold one. Would have been cool if it also applied to silver, I probably would have started a collection of rabbit coins as an alternative somewhat currency resistant funds stocking while fawning my rabbit obession. Gold however is just a biiiiit t0o pricey and getting smaller coins is ramping up the per oz price a lot too.

 

[Shadow Cat]

Yeah, it also surprised me when I found that out. I wanted to add a book to my Amazon.co.uk order and noticed it jumped up in price remarkably. Normally it's only a small amount when adjusting the VAT rate, but in the case of books it goes form 0% to 6% . Just the idea that something is exempt of VAT feels so foreign.

If this is a topic,

Can anyone tell me why if you import stuff to the UK that has a book and something taxable in it, you get charged 20% Tax for the book?

For example
Book $9.98
Toy $19.98
Total 29.96

Customs form:
VAT: £11.14
Handing Fee: 11:25
Total: 22.39

I know the VAT is worked out by value + Shipping cost = VAT chargeable amount

But in the example above, surly the only item that should have been included in the tax (before shipping) is the toy. What at $19.98 value is below the £15 taxable amount so shouldn't have (in theory) triggered the VAT addition

But it seems it works under Total Consignment Value and tax's at that regardless of whats actually in the package

 

[Buzz201]

If this is a topic,

Can anyone tell me why if you import stuff to the UK that has a book and something taxable in it, you get charged 20% Tax for the book?

For example
Book $9.98
Toy $19.98
Total 29.96

Customs form:
VAT: £11.14
Handing Fee: 11:25
Total: 22.39

I know the VAT is worked out by value + Shipping cost = VAT chargeable amount

But in the example above, surly the only item that should have been included in the tax (before shipping) is the toy. What at $19.98 value is below the £15 taxable amount so shouldn't have (in theory) triggered the VAT addition

But it seems it works under Total Consignment Value and tax's at that regardless of whats actually in the package

I might be wrong, but often you can write to HMRC and ask for a refund. I know if the exchange rate changes, and the rate was fine when you ordered, you can write and they'll give you a refund...

 

[Luna]

Might possibly just the be limitations of the system? When Amazon Japan introduced pre-levied tax and customs I've heard of mutiple cases when the system messed up the right rates. (Like 19% for books, when it's supposed to be just 7.)