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You miss the point. It's an advantage inherent to some people's upbringing. It's only small, it's not what makes them a good rower or sailor, and they still need to put in the other 99.7%, but boy does it sure a) help and b) stand up to discussion.
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Yes, but that isn't the same as suggesting that a certain race of people have an inherent genetic advantage. If they drew attention to the funding that Jamaica puts into running, that's fine, but I don't feel suggesting that everyone of east African descent has an abnormal advantage at sprinting is fair, or makes sense, for reasons I've already pointed out. And I've still not had a satisfactory answer as to why in sports that white people dominate, genetic make up is nearly never discussed. You may have thought of one example (which is?) but I've never seen any and I've seen numerous TV and radio segments about "the black advantage". It bollocks, if white people put as much time and effort into long distance running, they'd get every bit as good as the Kenyan's. That's why a white American guy came either 2nd or 3rd in the 10k race.


Well, yes, but you don't believe in the fossil record, so you'll forgive my somewhat light treatment of the importance you clearly place on things such as "evidence" to back up these things. :p
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Heathen! :lol:
 
vashdaman said:
I've still not had a satisfactory answer as to why in sports that white people dominate, genetic make up is nearly never discussed.
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Gee, that makes the stuff I wrote a few pages back seem so worthwhile.
 
Didn't mean to make that small point you wrote about white people feeling guilt over the past seem worthless, as that is obviously a relevant point. I just don't personally think it's a fully satisfactory answer or excuse, as if there's all this legitimate scientific interest in this kind of genetic evolution of sportsmen, then surely we shouldn't just be seeing these guys keep banging on about the superior genes of runners from east African descent alone.
 
I don't take offence vash, I just want to make sure people are reading what I write. Makes it a bit pointless otherwise.

vashdaman said:
Didn't mean to make that small point you wrote about white people feeling guilt over the past seem worthless, as that is obviously a relevant point. I just don't personally think it's a fully satisfactory answer or excuse, as if there's all this legitimate scientific interest in this kind of genetic evolution of sportsmen, then surely we shouldn't just be seeing these guys keep banging on about the superior genes of runners from east African descent alone.
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But I think that's exactly why the only instances we are seeing of this are in praise of people belonging to a race historically and wrongly presumed entirely inferior. If we were to start looking at things white people might be better at and black people worse... you see the problem. Eugenics has a particularly bad name which a lot of people think discredits it entirely, but I think if we can breed animals to be suited to specific purposes (look at dogs, horses, livestock etc.) there's no real reason we couldn't do the same with humans. Obviously there are ethical reasons we don't, but it is theoretically possible and I think points a fairly large arrow at genetics being a factor.

I'm a little concerned I might be starting to sound a bit amoral in this thread, which is unusual and a little disconcerting (the fact that I'm feeling concerned, that is).
 
But I think that's exactly why the only instances we are seeing of this are in praise of people belonging to a race historically and wrongly presumed entirely inferior. If we were to start looking at things white people might be better at and black people worse... you see the problem. Eugenics has a particularly bad name which a lot of people think discredits it entirely
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But surely people should have learned by now that singling out one specific racial group in particular, and making them out to be either at a unfair natural advantage or disadvantage, without examining other racial groups in such a manner, doesn't help anything at all, it just has the opposite effect. Especially when the hard science behind this particular issue (despite the fact genes obviously do have an effect, and selective breeding does work) is quite contentious.

It's better for everyone if things are looked at honestly and in balance.
 
vashdaman said:
It's better for everyone if things are looked at honestly and in balance.
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I'm not sure those two things go hand in hand. On balance we might be better off sweeping under the rug the idea that genetics plays a part in ability and carry on with the "anyone can achieve anything" line (which, it has to be said, has proved pretty popular over the last fifty years or so). Or we could be honest and tell them that their genetics do factor into their chances of achieving certain things.
 
Well then according to that definition we must not be in balance or honest right now. As the overwhelming bulk of the discussion in this subject revolves around black runners, and not other racial groups who dominate other sports. But they're not saying "anyone can achieve anything", as they are heavy suggesting that non black runners are at a natural disadvantage ( and thus potentially creating a self fulfilling prophecy).

So it's seems to be the worst of both worlds right now.

And what bothers me is that they aren't telling people that genetics do factor (as obviously they do factor), but they are making such grand sweeping statements about whole racial groups abilities.
 
vashdaman said:
but I don't feel suggesting that everyone of east African descent has an abnormal advantage at sprinting is fair, or makes sense, for reasons I've already pointed out.
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I wouldn't suggest anything of the sort. 99% of the people who have run sub-10s 100m have been of West African descent, after all. :p
 
Got back from Holland yesterday...

I was the only one who wore sun lotion, took breaks in the shade and mainly drank water and yet I end up looking like a lobster :(

*shakes fist*
 
Yeah, Areashiftybun is his and a few others channel on youtube for anime/movie/game commentary/reviews/etc. It's kinda cool. I didn't realise he had been working on the channel for 4 years though.
 
If i was being honest, it feels that his accent has dropped a little since then. Maybe it's just me though. Most of it is still there. But yeah, it's got good content out, well worth a look into.
 
I need to check out that channel more often, I have it subbed so I've got no excuse not to really.

On an amazing note, I've just passed my driving test. After about two years. :lol:
 
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