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CitizenGeek said:
Mutsumi said:
To be honest, the past is the past, & people should grow up. Germany has done far worse to England far more recently than England ever did to Ireland, yet we've been mature & moved on; we don't hate Germany or German people. Those in Ireland who are anti-English because of history should grow up & do the same; as no Englishman alive today had any part in whatever events in history some of the Irish are sore about.
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You obviously have a pretty narrow, or non-existent, understanding of even basic history. German planes bombed London for many months. It was horrible, yes, but it doesn't even compare to the maltreatment of the Irish by the English that took place over 700 years. I think your kind of attitude riles up Irish people an awful lot; whenever an English person refuses to acknowledge the suffering of the Irish for silly nationalistic reasons. No one in Ireland expects English people to accept responsibility for the horrific cruelty of English aristocrats over the centuries, I don't hold you responsible for Oliver Cromwell's reign of terror on this island, but I do expect you to have some kind of understanding of, and a respect for, the facts. Especially if you are going to have an opinion on the issue.
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None of it happened to any person that it alive now, nor was it done by any person alive now. Nor is there anyone alive now who even knew in person either of the above. Simply, it is in the past. The Britain that did mean things to Ireland is long dead, as is the Ireland that was the victim of assorted mean things.
 
Voddas said:
I don't mind that the conversation continues. Was just getting flash backs to converstaions much like this one that resulted in all out flame wars... the aftermaths were horrific. I over exagerate like. Heh.

@chaos : I want a cookie but you lost me there... :?
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Watching things here for the time being and it's civil so far.
The Hungary / Budapest reference is related to some american celebrity in a "Are you smarter than a 10 year old" type of show.

Look it up in youtube later, it's hilarious.


Mutsumi said:
None of it happened to any person that it alive now, nor was it done by any person alive now. Nor is there anyone alive now who even knew in person either of the above. Simply, it is in the past. The Britain that did mean things to Ireland is long dead, as is the Ireland that was the victim of assorted mean things.
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Take a look at the movie "In the name of the father". The story in there is pretty recent.

Today's Britain is different than that one? Possibly. Should it be forgiven as those directly involved are not alive anymore? Surely! Should that be forgotten ? NEVER.

I'm afraid that if forgoten, the mistakes will be done all over again.
 
chaos said:
Mutsumi said:
None of it happened to any person that it alive now, nor was it done by any person alive now. Nor is there anyone alive now who even knew in person either of the above. Simply, it is in the past. The Britain that did mean things to Ireland is long dead, as is the Ireland that was the victim of assorted mean things.
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Take a look at the movie "In the name of the father". The story in there is pretty recent.

Today's Britain is different than that one? Possibly. Should it be forgiven as those directly involved are not alive anymore? Surely! Should that be forgotten ? NEVER.

I'm afraid that if forgoten, the mistakes will be done all over again.
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History repeats itself if we remember it or not. It's the nature of humanity itself which is the problem. The vast majority of us don't seem capable of evolving.
 
ayase said:
History repeats itself if we remember it or not. It's the nature of humanity itself which is the problem. The vast majority of us don't seem capable of evolving.
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I'm eternally optmistic and I'm also positive to the point of being an annoyance to many people !

I'm pretty sure that in another few thousand years we will get there ;)
 
ayase said:
Well I have to be honest and say that I don't understand that then. Plenty of Jewish people still seem happy enough today in countries where they aren't oppressed, like Britain and America. Not that I'm suggesting all Jews are Zionists of course, it just it seems plenty of them don't particularly want to make use of the homeland they've regained possesion of.
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Yes, about half of the world's Jews live outside of Israel, the overwhelming majority of those in the U.S. but just because they call America home doesn't mean they don't think of their homeland as being of great importance. American Jewry are very much involved in lobbying the U.S. government to protect Israel. There are even two prominent organisations, AIPAC and J Street, with buildings in Washington, D.C. The state of Israel more or less owes it's continued existence to the Jewish vote (although the Jewish vote only really matters in Florida) and Jewish money. So obviously most Jews in the U.S. are very much committed to maintain their homeland and work very hard to do just that. Irish-Americans are also very much concerned for Ireland's well-being and this was especially obvious with regards to the peace process in northern Ireland. Every modern president of Irish descent (JFK, Reagan, Clinton( has visited their ancestral homes in Ireland. As such, your argument holds no water.

Just as not all Irish Americans returned to Ireland after the establishment of the Irish Free State in 1922. I'm just pointing out that my point of view - not being that bothered about having a homeland, and just living wherever I am / wherever I want - can't be that uncommon.
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But at the same time, if you were living abroad and there was any kind of trouble in England that was causing English people to suffer, you definitely would care.

It's great to celebrate your culture and heritage, it's not so great when differences are used to drive a wedge between one people and another.
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I wasn't saying that stuff about the ethnic make-up of Northern Ireland to make any point one way or the other. I was just stating the fact of the matter, which is that religion really has little to do with that the past conflicts there; ethnicity was the major driving force, and the two ethnicities in the North are Scottish and Irish. I, of course, understand that the ethnic Scots who live in Northern Ireland have just as much a right to be there as anyone else, given the fact they've lived there for hundreds of years. I was merely stating the facts
 
Uh, since when are you in charge of the topics for discussion in a "general" thread like this?


Since i saw potential for it to turn into a war. And nobody wants another flame war, since the last time one broke out, you where banned. Surely you, of all people understand i was trying to stop the possibility of such an outcome re-occurring.


Anyway, just finished driving....its almost fully natural now :)
 
CitizenGeek said:
ayase said:
Well I have to be honest and say that I don't understand that then. Plenty of Jewish people still seem happy enough today in countries where they aren't oppressed, like Britain and America. Not that I'm suggesting all Jews are Zionists of course, it just it seems plenty of them don't particularly want to make use of the homeland they've regained possesion of.
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Yes, about half of the world's Jews live outside of Israel, the overwhelming majority of those in the U.S. but just because they call America home doesn't mean they don't think of their homeland as being of great importance. American Jewry are very much involved in lobbying the U.S. government to protect Israel. There are even two prominent organisations, AIPAC and J Street, with buildings in Washington, D.C. The state of Israel more or less owes it's continued existence to the Jewish vote (although the Jewish vote only really matters in Florida) and Jewish money. So obviously most Jews in the U.S. are very much committed to maintain their homeland and work very hard to do just that. Irish-Americans are also very much concerned for Ireland's well-being and this was especially obvious with regards to the peace process in northern Ireland. Every modern president of Irish descent (JFK, Reagan, Clinton( has visited their ancestral homes in Ireland. As such, your argument holds no water.
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You've just described is something which I almost went into, and something that has always baffled me. So... you get a homeland which you fought for. You choose not to make it your home, but to stay where you are yet become completely fixated on, and continue to stand up for, and look out for the interests of this place you don't live and don't really have any significant interests in - Other than that your ancenstors once called it home. That applies equally to Zionists and (though moreso in the past) Irish Nationalists abroad. I can't understand why some people do this and others don't. Perhaps Jewish and Irish people just pass on their knowledge and feelings to the next generation to a greater extent than others.

If I look back... like, really far back in my family tree, I find my Dad's side originally came from Venice. When I found that out I didn't suddenly feel really concerned about how Venice is being treated and become a proponent of Venetian independance (it was independant of Italy once, after all!). Firstly because I don't feel ethnically Venetian, secondly, as I said earlier, because Venice isn't being oppressed, but thirdly and most importantly because at the same time I find ancestors from Donegal, Cornwall, the Scottish borders and France. As such I don't really have an 'ethnic' homeland - my homeland is simply the one where I was born and grew up. Perhaps people 'sticking to their own' and not mixing with others (hey, the topic's come full circle again!), whether of their own choice or forced upon them, produces more of a definate identity to which they feel very strongly attached.
 
Tachi- said:
Uh, since when are you in charge of the topics for discussion in a "general" thread like this?

Since i saw potential for it to turn into a war. And nobody wants another flame war, since the last time one broke out, you where banned. Surely you, of all people understand i was trying to stop the possibility of such an outcome re-occurring.

Anyway, just finished driving....its almost fully natural now :)
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No back seat moderation here :p
 
nice so were on xenophobia in the British isle, soon we'll be complaining on provinces like Cornwall. and why not stop there, lets gripe at each county.

"feckin pompys, why don't they bugger of where they come from"
 
anyone from Portsmouth

anyhow for all this talk on how Britain's treated other countries rough under their reign. well bloody country couldn't look after it's own people. working class people get diddly sqwat, while all money went to the church or higher ups who new as much as running a country from knowing their arse to their elbow. how i like to refer to it as a "****ry" but at least were a lot better then before. those times in the middle ages where called medieval for a reason me thinks
 
Otaku-san said:
anyone from Portsmouth

anyhow for all this talk on how Britain's treated other countries rough under their reign. well bloody country couldn't look after it's own people. working class people get diddly sqwat, while all money went to the church or higher ups who new as much as running a country from knowing their arse to their elbow. how i like to refer to it as a "****ry" but at least were a lot better then before. those times in the middle ages where called medieval for a reason me thinks
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apparently you're not in a very good mood today, isn't it? :p
 
Morning,

I'm here, had a great driving lesson. went home and watched more ironman, then went to Jade house for a big meal. my starter: 1/2 a Duck pancakes with onion, cucumber and Hoi Sin Sauce.

Then Spare ribs, sweet and sour chicken with egg fried rice, special chow mein. and when that course finished we had steaming hot hand towels to clean our hands, then fresh orange slices then mint chocolates. Drank a imported oriental beer. it wasn't tiger beer (which is also nice :)) but it was refreshing.

Then got any food we didn't finish put into doggy bags and took em back to bens, got a taxi into town and went to the park pub, sam took 40mins to get a drink. so the next round i went up, served 4 drinks in under 5 mins. *shakes head* amateurs these days just don't know how to get served.

Saw plenty of people in there that i knew, was stood talking for a while, then headed home about 12ish and finished off ironman....then went to sleep....woke up wondering if it was friday or saturday.

Sadly there's still one more day to get through before the weekend lol.
 
Tachi- said:
my starter: 1/2 a Duck pancakes with onion, cucumber and Hoi Sin Sauce.
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You call that a starter...

Tachi- said:
Sadly there's still one more day to get through before the weekend lol.
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Very true.

A mate invited me to a house warming tonight. Should be my first one, let's see what it's all about =)

Over the weekend I have the Japan Matsuri Festival on Saturday, I was given tickets to see this WOMAD thing, which is allegedly World Music, Arts and Dance Festival at Tower of London tomorrow and Sunday.

Then next week, I've got two gigs and a dinner party.

Social life is busy, now if only I could make it more meaninful. :p
 
chaos said:
Tachi- said:
my starter: 1/2 a Duck pancakes with onion, cucumber and Hoi Sin Sauce.
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You call that a starter...
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Yeah....why?


and your weekend sounds eventful :) make the most of it is what i say :D

As for my weekend, i've got to sort out my room...its sort of a mess again (wires and tech all over the place)
I'm hoping to do a few things done. firstly clear down my desk and decide if i'm putting my PC in the loft and using the desk for the laptop and the rest of the tech. or clearing down the desk and leaving the PC there.

Don't have to worry about the rest of my room, kayleigh said she's gunna put my clothes in the washin machine whilst i'm busy upstairs and spend the rest of the day probably watching tv and talking to my mum & sister (some of us get off really easy.....guess it is my room though :/ ) then taking her out for a meal. or ordering a pizza in and watching a few films.

will probably decide to meet up with the remaining guys and sort out this holiday. All in all it's less going out....more clearing things out and relaxing.
 
chaos said:
good morning - anyone around or did we scared everyone out yesterday?
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yes so scared i wet myself over so much pessimism. what should we have a go at today...Yeoman


This morning

woke up semi-tired, planing to do painting on half foot skirting and coveing in bedroom. also planning to look up other chipped ps2 or how too's, since mt previous one has gone up the spout, basically the lasers gone either way it's not playing nothing, which luckily i have a backup to play the pal games i got
 
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