Over-rated / Under-rated shows

Lutga said:
I'm going to go with a bit of an oddball one now,

Under-rated - Negima!? (the Shaft one)

I'll preface this by saying, as a show, I actually prefer the Xebec version - as I think it remains more true to the original premise and is just a fun, straight-up harem comedy for the most part. But in terms of just absolutely ripping up that original premise and just taking it on a wild ride through all kinds of absolute bonkers-ness, you certainly can't fault Shaft's version for ambition. I don't think I've really seen anything else like it outside of Excel Saga - it doesn't ever feel the need to explain itself, and some of the comedy it aims for is frankly bizarre.

I think visually, it suffers in the same way a lot of earlier Shaft shoes like Moon Phase did in that the lower budget seems to show - and a lot of visual quirks haven't been polished to the degree they were by the time Monogatari and Madoka went out. But as a springboard for a lot of Shaft's trademark stuff, it's a fascinating sandbox for experimentation and I think the way it manages to somehow give all of the 30+ girls distinct personalities is pretty impressive.
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Interesting to bring this one up! I'm actually quite fond of Negima!? as an alternate take on things. Akiyuki Shinbo and SHAFT + Negima are an unexpected combo, and it works quite well. Visually it's stunning, especially with its own take on the Evangeline arc.

However, Negima!? does also make me sad. Neither TV series did the manga justice I think. Negima in its original manga form is deceptive, in that it's actually an epic fantasy shounen action series disguised as a harem comedy. The Xebec adaptation never really did the action side of it justice, though with it going for an anime original ending I guess that was never on the cards.

Negima!? on the other hand, has some downright thrilling magical battles. As I was watching it when it aired, my only thought was: 'I wish this team got the chance to animate the later chapters of the manga'. I do still appreciate Negima!? for what it is, but that disappointment is always in the back of my mind.

Thankfully we did get a glance of what SHAFT could have done with the Ala Alba and Magic World OVAs, but what I would give for a faithful adaptation of Negima from beginning to end by that team...
 
 
ayase said:
Overrated - Martian Successor Nadesico

Although this show isn't talked about anywhere near as much as it used to be (which may or may not be indicative of its lasting appeal) I was really quite disappointed after the praise I'd heard heaped on it. Nadesico just strikes me first and foremost as a show that doesn't know what it wants to be - Is it a satire? Is it serious? It seems to want to be both, which is certainly possible to pull off but it jumps around between the two so clumsily that it ends up not being very good at either.

In my opinion Full Metal Panic and Gurren Lagann manage to do everything Nadesico tried to do and do it better.
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Think I can remember fabricated lunatic saying much the same thing, but I actually thought the frequent switching between contrasting tones really worked for the show, and was part of what made it memorable. It's certainly not without its problems, especially the hastily crammed in ending, but I feel it's still mostly deserving of any praise that comes its way. I particularly appreciated how it attempted to say something about past mecha anime and weave that into the plot, as opposed to the likes of Gurren Laggan, which seems to be more interested in blankly repeating what's gone before.
 
Ath said:
Lutga said:
I'm going to go with a bit of an oddball one now,

Under-rated - Negima!? (the Shaft one)

I'll preface this by saying, as a show, I actually prefer the Xebec version - as I think it remains more true to the original premise and is just a fun, straight-up harem comedy for the most part. But in terms of just absolutely ripping up that original premise and just taking it on a wild ride through all kinds of absolute bonkers-ness, you certainly can't fault Shaft's version for ambition. I don't think I've really seen anything else like it outside of Excel Saga - it doesn't ever feel the need to explain itself, and some of the comedy it aims for is frankly bizarre.

I think visually, it suffers in the same way a lot of earlier Shaft shoes like Moon Phase did in that the lower budget seems to show - and a lot of visual quirks haven't been polished to the degree they were by the time Monogatari and Madoka went out. But as a springboard for a lot of Shaft's trademark stuff, it's a fascinating sandbox for experimentation and I think the way it manages to somehow give all of the 30+ girls distinct personalities is pretty impressive.
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Interesting to bring this one up! I'm actually quite fond of Negima!? as an alternate take on things. Akiyuki Shinbo and SHAFT + Negima are an unexpected combo, and it works quite well. Visually it's stunning, especially with its own take on the Evangeline arc.

However, Negima!? does also make me sad. Neither TV series did the manga justice I think. Negima in its original manga form is deceptive, in that it's actually an epic fantasy shounen action series disguised as a harem comedy. The Xebec adaptation never really did the action side of it justice, though with it going for an anime original ending I guess that was never on the cards.

Negima!? on the other hand, has some downright thrilling magical battles. As I was watching it when it aired, my only thought was: 'I wish this team got the chance to animate the later chapters of the manga'. I do still appreciate Negima!? for what it is, but that disappointment is always in the back of my mind.

Thankfully we did get a glance of what SHAFT could have done with the Ala Alba and Magic World OVAs, but what I would give for a faithful adaptation of Negima from beginning to end by that team...
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Maybe they could go back now Monogatari is finished and start from the beginning again - they certainly need another long-running money-spinner.

Also, I forgot to mention, but Negima also has one of my all time favourite characters in it (Shaft obviously have a thing for loli vampire girls):

6a0133f3d447b0970b01538f32c449970b-pi
 
Regarding Akira and the first Oshii GitS film, I think both have a significant following outside the direct anime fandom that bolsters their reputation. I'm sure you could find quite a few people describing themselves as science-fiction fans who really like those films, but don't watch any other anime.
 
Overrated: Neon Genesis Evangelion - Yes, I like the opening but that's about it. I got halfway through the series before deciding I've put up with whiny Shinji long enough. I can see why people adore this anime but it is pretty overrated for what it is. Honourable Mentions: Naruto, Bleach, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Spirited Away etc.

Underrated: Dear Brother (Oniisama e) - Set in school (I know, isn't most anime?) but deals with mature themes and characters look their age. I love the over the top drama, still frame shots, the character designs and complex story. Honourable Mentions: Millennium Actress, Orguss 02, Vampire Princess Miyu.
 
Ath said:
Now this will be a fun thread!

Overrated - Ghost in the Shell (the 1995 movie)

Now, in no way do I dislike Mamoru Oshii's film. I admire the cyberpunk aesthetics, dig the mood and atmosphere and I really like the soundtrack. I also think it has some very interesting ideas. However, when I sit down and watch the film, it just doesn't engage me as much as I expect. It's been a while since my last watch so I can't quite put my finger on the problem. Maybe it's because I don't find the characters that interesting here, that was certainly not a problem in Stand Alone Complex (which I do like very much).

So yeah, there's a lot that I admire about Ghost in the Shell 1995, but I would never put it in my top tier of anime.

Underrated - Crest of the Stars/Banner of the Stars

There's so much I like about this universe. It has quite possibly one of the most fully realised and believable central relationships that I've encountered in anime. I could watch Jinto and Lafiel converse and interact all day long. They're the heart of Crest of the Stars and the subsequent Banner of the Stars.

Surrounding this relationship is a compelling space opera with a fascinating point of view; we follow it from the 'conqueror/invader' side. This makes for a compelling twist on the norm. While the emphasis is more on dialogue than on space action, it's never boring.

I've given up on seeing any more animation in this universe, but Banner of the Stars III is a decent ending. Would love for more people to get the chance to see the Crest/Banner series.
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I like banner of the star's too...It's pretty damn decent...wish the last part was out on DVD
 
ayase said:
Overrated - Martian Successor Nadesico
Underrated - Kurau: Phantom Memory
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I'm Yakumo, and I fully endorse this sentiment. Of course it also means that I must now come up with other examples...


Overrated - Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
It is a fantastically produced product, don't get me wrong, but overall I found it hollow and soulless. Which is kind of ironic given the many spiritual elements in the storyline. It is a title to be respected and admired, but try as I might I cannot bring myself to like it.

Underrated - The Daichis: Earth's Defense Family
Puerile comedy, alien action and family drama. All of these combine to make you wonder who exactly this title is aimed at. On the one hand you have a de facto main character who's a pervert with a very weak bladder. Then there are the many gross-out moments involving scatological references. And there's also the overarching plot of a dysfunctional family unit on the verge of collapse, with little to no regard for one another. Common sense dictates that this shouldn't work, but work it does. The closing theme by Akino Arai is a particularly haunting one too.
 
Overrated, are the game-changing genre re-inventions. Shows like Gurren Lagann, Evangelion, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica. shows that come around and supposedly tear up the rule-book and start again, apparently injecting soimething dark and adult into what were previously happy-go-lucky anime conventions. All of a sudden, the copy-cat anime appear, and everyone starts talking about this being the next big thing! The show that will take anime into the mainstream, or will change the way people see anime, or will stop global warming. Some of them are good, but they're not that good. I started watching Madoka Magica again recently, two episodes in and I'm wondering what the big deal is. I'm even a little bored.

Also Monogatari. Ghost stories, fan service, SHAFT animation, and lots and lots of talking. It is a good show, a good series, but I don't get the worship that it gets from its hardcore fans.

Actually also overrated, SHAFT animation full stop. A whole load of pretentious short cuts masquerading as an animation style, throw everything at the screen and hope something sticks. And I'm sick of people looking over their shoulder at the camera.


Under-rated...

I don't think Le Chevalier D'Eon ever got the love it deserved. Fabulous series, one of Production IG's best. There are times where Moribito feels like Kenji Kamiyama's unloved stepchild, with the emphasis on GITSSAC and Eden of the East. I wish Mushi-shi would get more love. That's a unique show. And ever since Brotherhood came out, I sense that the original Fullmetal Alchemist is fading from consciousness. Here's a list

PlanetES
Shingu: Secret of the Stellar Wars
Suzuka
Welcome to the NHK
Witchblade
Bamboo Blade
Birdy the Mighty Decode
Gosick
Nichijou
Simoun
Bodacious Space Pirates
Hanasaku Iroha
Michiko and Hatchin
Shangri-La


all could have used more love There's more too. I'll save that for another post
 
Just Passing Through said:
Overrated, are the game-changing genre re-inventions. Shows like Gurren Lagann, Evangelion, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Some of them are good, but they're not that good. I started watching Madoka Magica again recently, two episodes in and I'm wondering what the big deal is. I'm even a little bored.

Also Monogatari
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I'm going to have to massively disagree with you on those. First of all, I'm going to say I don't think anyone thinks of Gurren Lagann as genre changing or dark. I'm pretty sure a lot of stuff in GL are call backs to older mech shows and the show contains a lot of homages. The show is also very light and silly in tone for the most part, except that obvious part early on. As for Eva and Madoka, they are two of my favourite shows ever. I'd go as far to consider Madoka either my number 1 or number 2 favourite show of all time depending on how I feel when you ask me. Personally, I think the pacing in Madoka is perfect, I can't ever remember being bored whilst watching it and I've seen it 3 times. Every episode feels necessary and helps to build up the characters and story and it doesn't waste a second of your time. Not to mention the art style and animation is gorgeous and the various art styles seen throughout the show in the witches labyrinths are great. The show also has an amazing soundtrack, possibly my favourite from any anime, film or tv show, it's just amazing. Personally, I can't think of anything the show disappoints in or where I would fix any flaws. I'm sure there are small things but as far as shows go, Madoka is pretty much perfect to me. Evangelion I can understand a little more, it does get a little confusing towards the end and I personally really dislike the last 2 episodes (Though End of Eva is amazing) as they really weren't needed and it didn't give any conclusion to the story, only to the characters. That being said Eva really does have some great and well developed characters IMO. Monogatari I can completely understand, I love it personally but it is definitely an acquired taste.

Obviously everything is just personal opinion in the end but I really feel strongly about these shows.
 
Ok, I'm going to go for another potentially controversial one:

Overrated - Mamoru Hosoda films

Don't get me wrong, I found Wolf Children and Girl Who Leapt Through Time pleasant, and especially enjoyed Summer Wars. But I just don't 'get' the outright adoration. When the 'next Ghibli' comparisons get reeled out between Hosoda and Shinkai, people always seem to favour Hosoda, but in my eyes whereas Shinkai is actively pushing at the boundaries of animation in terms of visual fidelity and 'reality' of raw emotion, Hosoda's films feel way too old-school for my tastes. There's arguably a lot of Ghibli in them, but it always feels way too 'fluffy' - for want of a better phrase. People go on about these movies as if they're like the next coming, some of the 50 best Anime ever committed to screen, or whatever. Yes, they tug at the emotions, but not in the messy, screwed up way I think the best anime do. It's just too schamltzy for me.
 
Lutga said:
Ok, I'm going to go for another potentially controversial one:

Overrated - Mamoru Hosoda films
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Actually, I agree with the suggestion, but for different reasons. Having seen Hosoda's three main features, I find significant fault with all of them, mostly relating to writing and storytelling. I don't particularly rate Shinkai either (mostly as I feel he rarely makes films that appeal to me), but I feel Hosoda has yet to make the outright masterpiece that would justify him being crowned by the critics as Ghibli's true heir-apparent.
 
Gosick...underrated

Ok ok this series isn't perfect but victoerique is such a cute little thing.

Also the mysteries in the series reminds me of Sherlock Holmes...the mysteries them selfs are pretty good but the main main plot is weak and the big bad isn't that good ether.but again the mysteries are good
 
Just Passing Through said:
Overrated, are the game-changing genre re-inventions. Shows like Gurren Lagann, Evangelion, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica. shows that come around and supposedly tear up the rule-book and start again, apparently injecting soimething dark and adult into what were previously happy-go-lucky anime conventions. All of a sudden, the copy-cat anime appear, and everyone starts talking about this being the next big thing! The show that will take anime into the mainstream, or will change the way people see anime, or will stop global warming. Some of them are good, but they're not that good. I started watching Madoka Magica again recently, two episodes in and I'm wondering what the big deal is. I'm even a little bored.
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A few people have mentioned Eva now, and I'm starting to wonder if it's a show people either "get" or they don't (although I've been accused of not "getting" it either, so what do I know). That might sound a little superior of me but when I hear people complaining about Shinji being a whiny git I can't help but think they're missing the point (you're far from alone in this view neptune2venus, but I would urge you to push on and finish it because no-one can form a fair assessment of Eva until they see it through to the bitter end). Shinji's a very human character, with all the flaws that entails. In fact everyone in Eva is, they're all f*cked up in their own ways just as everyone is in reality and this seems very much intentional. Eva went from being a good, interesting show to being an exceptional and unique show by the end. It was the show for otaku that became the show that ripped them (and the nature of the self, human relationships and freedom) apart, bless Hideaki Anno for putting his depression to good use. I think first-hand experience of depression probably improves Eva a lot as well, no offence intended to sufferers who didn't enjoy it.

IncendiaryLemon said:
I personally really dislike the last 2 episodes (Though End of Eva is amazing) as they really weren't needed and it didn't give any conclusion to the story, only to the characters.
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My opinion is the complete opposite, I think End of Eva was totally unnecessary. The mindf*ckery of the last two episodes (which seemingly happened because they couldn't produce the ones they wanted which later became EoE, a fortuitous happening if ever there was one) elevates Eva to its absolute pinnacle as metafictional social commentary. The fact they got death threats and pissed off so many people after that proves the worth of the original run of Eva to me because it affected people - It should probably never have been returned to at all, but the fact that it was (and the additional fact that as a franchise it became the exact thing it ended up being a critique of) in no way diminishes the original.

While it was a good show, I didn't see what the big fuss was about Madoka though and if anyone called Gurren Lagann a "game-changing genre re-invention" they're deluded. As IncendiaryLemon says, it was just a whole lot of fun. Also totally with you on the lack of appreciation for Le Chevalier D'Eon and Moribito. Mushi-shi does seem to get a fair bit of love though.
 
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Just Passing Through said:
My opinion is the complete opposite, I think End of Eva was totally unnecessary. The mindf*ckery of the last two episodes (which seemingly happened because they couldn't produce the ones they wanted which later became EoE, a fortuitous happening if ever there was one) elevates Eva to its absolute pinnacle as metafictional social commentary. The fact they got death threats and pissed off so many people after that proves the worth of the original run of Eva to me because it affected people - It should probably never have been returned to at all, but the fact that it was (and the additional fact that as a franchise it became the exact thing it ended up being a critique of) in no way diminishes the original..
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I've run into a lot of people of this opinion before and while I don't disagree per say, I'd much rather get closure than social commentary. To each their own but I watch shows for the story and characters, not for social commentary and what not. Not that I mind it, but if a show, such as Eva, ends how it does and then had no follow up actually giving closure I think it would negatively impact my opinion of the show in the whole. Although I guess you could say it's a testament to the show that it manages to please fans like yourself and fans like me.
 
Every time I watch Eva i see a little more of Shinki, Rei and Asuka in myself, whilst wishing I knew someone like Misato. From the first time I watched the Rebuild films purely as visual spectacular to digging in to End of Eva as a piece of surrealist art that can arguably be held up there with the likes of Dali, in my eyes the 'Eva experience' just grows and grows the more I engage with it. It's a show that feeds off yourself.
 
Having basically seen the two Eva films released after the series finished (but not the actual series), what would you class as being more of a mind ****, ayase, EoE or the last two eps? EoE was one hell of a mind **** if ever I've seen one. It's pretty much the quintessential anime mind ****. I don't mean that in a good sense though. But boy, you have to kinda respect the guy who made that for really going "far out". Maybe I need to watch it again, but from my memory, it was a totally unrestrained, slightly horrific, and intensely obfuscated psychedelic trip. It surely couldn't have been any more popular with the presumably huge Japanese fanbase than the last two episodes of the proper series was?

Anyway, Under rated: Tekken the animation

Why do people act like it's not the perfect Tekken anime? It totally nails it.
 
It's probably already been mentioned in this thread, but I'll say it again: One Piece.

I've never even seen it, but it surely, surely can't be as good as Japan seems to believe it is.
 
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