ConanThe3rd
Railgun
At this point, unless Kaze is there to punt then in the direction of truth, justice and me giving them my £30+ I'd automatic discount Manga on doing anything right BluRay speaking.
MangaUK license announcements ...
- Thread starter Peachy
- Start date
VoxPhantom
Stand User
Aye, that's true. Putting both Clannad series out on blu-ray would be massive gamble for Manga, possibly even dicing with financial ruin. Can't blame them for sticking with DVDs on this one.Joshawott said:
alexrose1uk
Straw Hat Pirate
VoxPhantom said:
Can't blame fans for importing the BD edition either though... regardless of whether they like it or not, if they won't offer something some else is, and don't intend to...
VoxPhantom
Stand User
I'm not blaming fans for importing (especially as I've done it myself), and I think Manga should be more understanding in their stance on importing. I'm just saying that Manga going with DVDs for Clannad makes financial sense - it's a bit harsh to say they don't intend to release BDs, as I'm sure they would if they could, it's more like they simply can't afford to!alexrose1uk said:
ayase
State Alchemist
See I'm not even sure it does make financial sense to release it on DVD when it has been available to import on DVD for ages (almost three years, if the release dates on ANN are correct). I argued that point back when MVM released Slayers - you could either buy it as the single volumes were released by MVM in the UK or import the entire three series boxed set from the US at a significant discount. Waiting longer and paying more isn't the choice consumers usually make.
If UK distros are releasing things at or around the time of their US counterparts then yes, I think it probably makes sense even to release DVD only - The DVD crowd will buy the UK release and the BD buyers will import. If you leave it a year or more plently of DVD buyers will already have imported too.
If UK distros are releasing things at or around the time of their US counterparts then yes, I think it probably makes sense even to release DVD only - The DVD crowd will buy the UK release and the BD buyers will import. If you leave it a year or more plently of DVD buyers will already have imported too.
I don't mind if Manga UK want to release things I don't think will sell, but I do mind when companies think that they can force us to buy that version by withholding [superior] foreign editions, which is what Manga UK's very harsh anti-importer stance seems to aspire to.
There was an exchange on Twitter the other day about the Brotherhood Incident which ended in this:
"Thanks for ur tweet. I agree, it sucks. We don't want 2 encourage Uk fans to import though coz it means we lose a sale. While good anime biz in general it's no solution for Manga. We'd go out of business if u all imported from US, Aust or Asia. Just being honest. The thing is, some of the shows some of u guys want on BD r only going to sell a few hundred copies here. It just isn't a good commercial decision for us to invest big $$ in it. BD market here is so small. But, that's not to say we won't release more BDs."
Once again, I don't see why I should be buying here if they're just rehashing foreign releases (the DVD-only versions at that); they wouldn't be at risk of us importing if they were doing something differently to the other regions, after all. I appreciate that they don't have much money, but surely things cannot continue like this forever. DVD shops don't exist in my town now, and when they disappear from most others the raison d'etre for a local distributor who isn't adding anything unique to the package will surely disappear as well.
They also complained again about the BBFC situation preventing them from importing small lots of discs from abroad. I saw someone mention before that nobody seems to be trying to change the impractical BBFC situation, and I wondered why they don't.
R
There was an exchange on Twitter the other day about the Brotherhood Incident which ended in this:
"Thanks for ur tweet. I agree, it sucks. We don't want 2 encourage Uk fans to import though coz it means we lose a sale. While good anime biz in general it's no solution for Manga. We'd go out of business if u all imported from US, Aust or Asia. Just being honest. The thing is, some of the shows some of u guys want on BD r only going to sell a few hundred copies here. It just isn't a good commercial decision for us to invest big $$ in it. BD market here is so small. But, that's not to say we won't release more BDs."
Once again, I don't see why I should be buying here if they're just rehashing foreign releases (the DVD-only versions at that); they wouldn't be at risk of us importing if they were doing something differently to the other regions, after all. I appreciate that they don't have much money, but surely things cannot continue like this forever. DVD shops don't exist in my town now, and when they disappear from most others the raison d'etre for a local distributor who isn't adding anything unique to the package will surely disappear as well.
They also complained again about the BBFC situation preventing them from importing small lots of discs from abroad. I saw someone mention before that nobody seems to be trying to change the impractical BBFC situation, and I wondered why they don't.
R
Sure, we can't blame the fans for importing what in most cases, is a superior product from elsewhere (*pats my Madoka Volume 2 LE, which I've just finished watching*). However, I also can't blame MangaUK for their decisions to release some things as DVD only (especially longer series' such as Clannad; as even Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood shown, not even critically acclaimed shows can survive the market here).
However, we can't always put the blame on MangaUK. Right now, Blu-ray isn't as widely accepted here as it is elsewhere - compare the average size of a Blu-ray isle in a supermarket or a HMV to their DVD isles - heck, most stores don't even split the BDs up by genre, they just stick them all in one place.
I'll give credit where credit is due and criticism where criticism is due. I will fault MangaUK with the cancellations of blu-rays such as The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya and K-ON! because they should have done the background financial calculations before telling us that they would be rereleased on blu-ray. I will fault them (or rather, Jerome?) with the doubt that has been cast over the Puella Magi Madoka Magica blu-ray because of their promotion of the Aniplex release being region free (and outright asking if someone would buy it for him >>). However, I can't fault them with not choosing to release Clannad on blu-ray or even The World God Only Knows (I own the Sentai BD and it is fantastic, but the series' sales in Japan weren't great).
I think Rui has hit the nail on the head though - if not for the BBFC's tight regulations, MangaUK would lose a lot of the trouble and the cost. While a major Hollywood studio would be able to shrug off such costs as if they were nothing, a niche market like anime really can't. If MangaUK could just be a simple distributor of foreign releases (be they Japanese, American or Australian), then it would open a lot more avenues for them and us with less of the cost.
However, we can't always put the blame on MangaUK. Right now, Blu-ray isn't as widely accepted here as it is elsewhere - compare the average size of a Blu-ray isle in a supermarket or a HMV to their DVD isles - heck, most stores don't even split the BDs up by genre, they just stick them all in one place.
I'll give credit where credit is due and criticism where criticism is due. I will fault MangaUK with the cancellations of blu-rays such as The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya and K-ON! because they should have done the background financial calculations before telling us that they would be rereleased on blu-ray. I will fault them (or rather, Jerome?) with the doubt that has been cast over the Puella Magi Madoka Magica blu-ray because of their promotion of the Aniplex release being region free (and outright asking if someone would buy it for him >>). However, I can't fault them with not choosing to release Clannad on blu-ray or even The World God Only Knows (I own the Sentai BD and it is fantastic, but the series' sales in Japan weren't great).
I think Rui has hit the nail on the head though - if not for the BBFC's tight regulations, MangaUK would lose a lot of the trouble and the cost. While a major Hollywood studio would be able to shrug off such costs as if they were nothing, a niche market like anime really can't. If MangaUK could just be a simple distributor of foreign releases (be they Japanese, American or Australian), then it would open a lot more avenues for them and us with less of the cost.
MaxonTreik
Chuunibyou
They don't even understand what risk and loss leaders are. You can't make big money without risk and losing a little money in the short term in order to make profits for the long term.
Shiroi Hane
Dragon Knight
It could be that there are different licensors for the US and the EU and the right hand and left hand weren't communicating well.Joshawott said:
I don't think "little money" and "blu-ray" can be used in the same sentence, what with higher inception costs, licensing fees and large print runs.MaxonTreik said:
MaxonTreik
Chuunibyou
And?Shiroi Hane said:
Basically, if MangaUK lose money on a blu-ray release, it's not "little money" it's "a lot of money". When you consider that the minimum order is apparently 3,000 units and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood only managed to shift 750 of those shortly after launch - that's 2250 unsold blu-rays, which is a hell of a lot of money. Especially when you consider that as well as production and distribution, MangaUK would have also had to pay the Japanese for blu-ray rights.
Before you make a risk, you have to assess whether or not the risk is worth it. They did take risks with FMA:B, Casshern Sins and XAM'D. Now I'd say they're playing it safe until they see something that they feel is worth the risk.
Before you make a risk, you have to assess whether or not the risk is worth it. They did take risks with FMA:B, Casshern Sins and XAM'D. Now I'd say they're playing it safe until they see something that they feel is worth the risk.
Just Passing Through
The Wildcard
Joshawott said:
One thing I notice with Manga is that they play the short game. For them it boils down to the first month's sales, or even first week sales to see if they have a success. With the Casshern Sins Blu-ray situation, and the timing of its cancellation, I think sometimes they base their decisions on preorders alone. My impression of them as a company that releases a show then immediately forgets about it reflects that.
Compare that to MVM, who appear to be in it for the long game. They'll release a series, and keep on promoting it, especially recently with their deal of the week, as well as repackaging it and re-releasing it, singles to fatpacks to thin packs to bricks. They also go as far as trying to get back licences for popular properties like Kiddy Grade and Fruits Basket. Their anime remains in the consciousness for much longer. I get the impression that they count sales in terms of quarters and even years before deciding if something is a success or not. That's the approach that will pay off with anime on Blu-ray, but it does mean that less will be licensed overall, not more.
MaxonTreik
Chuunibyou
It's just going to go in a circle if they keep playing it safe. They can't keep blaming everything on production costs and their customers.Joshawott said:
In the long run it doesn't matter to me if they go under because I don't support them anyway.
I agree Just Passing Through. I don't own that many MVM releases myself (as MangaUK seem to pick up most of the stuff I'd like), but most of the purchases I have made are either shows they released a long time ago but recently rereleased or have been as part of their Deal of the Week. I would never have discovered Love Hina without the DotW and I love that show. Where with MangaUK, it seems like they just release the different volumes, put them in a boxset and are done with that series forever. Hell, didn't MangaUK once list Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood volume 1 as one of their top-selling blu-rays, some time after it was released?
As I said, they're obviously not going to be playing it safe forever. If they see something they feel are worth the risk, they'll take it - for example, despite their heavy anti-sub only attitude, they're taking the risk with Blue Exorcist later this year because they feel that it is a good show that could sell well (considering the way the anime ended, I'd argue that, but whatever).MaxonTreik said:
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
They're free to release the show in whatever format they want.
I'm also free to import the better version of whatever they release.
They are not allowed to bitch about my doing so (circumstances that prevent them from doing it? Perfectly fine. Me buying the thing, uh-uh, I still did my part in the economy of anime. The fact that you weren't involved in it because you couldn't afford to give me the experience I rightfully paid for is not an excuse) until they release it in the format I wanted it in the first instance.
Cut, print, end of story.
I'm also free to import the better version of whatever they release.
They are not allowed to bitch about my doing so (circumstances that prevent them from doing it? Perfectly fine. Me buying the thing, uh-uh, I still did my part in the economy of anime. The fact that you weren't involved in it because you couldn't afford to give me the experience I rightfully paid for is not an excuse) until they release it in the format I wanted it in the first instance.
Cut, print, end of story.
ilmaestro
State Alchemist
I think Maxon's point is that they would be better off trying something that could somehow result in people actually buying things from them, even if it meant that they potentially went out of business sooner, because at this rate (as Rui mentioned) they are surely going out of business anyway, they are just dragging more people along with them.
robot monkey
Hunter
Joshawott said:
It doesn't matter if they were just a distributor the BBFC isn't going anywhere & isn't likely to be anytime soon so when considering the costs of releasing here they would still have to factor in this cost against any money to made in this particular market. The main negative factor here is size, the UK anime market is just too small, even the most obscure of live action martial arts title no doubt outsells most anime titles & as long as this continues nothing in the market will change. Considering how long the anime market has now existed & not really grown that much in size over two decades we should consider ourselves lucky we still have a UK industry at all. With many fans now obtaining their anime in other ways I doubt we'll have a UK industry much longer.