Mai Mai Miracle is done (February 4th 2014 - December 1st 2016)

Wouldn't $55 have been around £35 at the time? That's probably closer to an Ultimate Edition film price but the release doesn't seem too far off of what you'd expect from an Ultimate Edition. I'm not going to complain if the same release ends up on an early bird deal for £25, but I'm not sure how likely that'd be.

I'd have thought that contributing to the release actually happening in the first place might have some value to backers. I'm still not sure why they'd be upset about other people getting access to that release. Well, to be more precise, I can only really see bad reasons to be upset.

I suppose I'm in danger of going on about it too much though. Still, it'd be nice to get a decent explanation of why backers might be upset rather than having to rely on my own assumptions.
 
I suppose I'm in danger of going on about it too much though. Still, it'd be nice to get a decent explanation of why backers might be upset rather than having to rely on my own assumptions.

A simple glance over the Kickstarter Comments page tells me that these guys will kick off over this.
 
I just find it weird, because games that are backed via kickstarter don't have this much delay. Backers might get the game a week or two early, but I've never seen a KS project before with a 6 month delay between backers and public. It just seems like overkill. I very much think they should get it a little early, maybe a month or so, but 6 months is just far too long. Anyone backer who wants to keep it out of the hands of the public for that length of time is just being selfish. I'm in a position, much like @thedoctor2016, where I wasn't even watching anime when this film had it's KS, nor would I have had the money to back it anyway, yet I'm going to have to wait an enormous amount of time to watch it. For the record, I'm not mad at AL, I'm mad at all those backers who'd kick up a fuss.
 
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A month would be fine with me assuming there's no exclusive bonus that backers are getting or that we didn't pay less (if we did get an exclusive bonus or did pay less then I'd be happy with simultaneous retail release) . The latter does seem unlikely: I backed the same tier as Josh but the $10 cheaper early bird, and even at February 2014 exchange rates that was around £27 - which is roughly what AL's CE movies go for at retail after discount.

As for the why, I can only speak for myself, but when I pay years in advance I'm financially and emotionally (to an extent) invested in the product. Having put up the money to bring the product into existence and then having to hear of delay after delay, it's only fair that we get some kind of perk. If that means receiving the product a bit sooner than those who didn't have that investment then I think that's fair enough.
 
You snooze ya lose. Bow down to your Kickstarter overlord (Me) for the next six months. feels good being this cool.

I don't think this is a case of him snoozing. I believe it's a case of him being too young legally to back a KS.

But like whatever, who was expecting anime fans to have empathy anyway? All the evidence suggests otherwise, it was foolish of anyone to expect better.
 
I don't think this is a case of him snoozing. I believe it's a case of him being too young legally to back a KS.

But like whatever, who was expecting anime fans to have empathy anyway? All the evidence suggests otherwise, it was foolish of anyone to expect better.
This isn't about having empathy. I was too young to invest in Apple stock before the iPod boom, so should I be entitled to be sold stock at their pre-iPod price now? Of course not. Someone not being in a position to do something at the time should in no way be reflected on backers or Anime Limited.

Yes, I imagine it is disappointing to only hear about this movie after the fact and wishing you could have pledged, but the backers have to come first - especially given how long we've already had to wait for something we've already invested in.

Wouldn't $55 have been around £35 at the time? That's probably closer to an Ultimate Edition film price but the release doesn't seem too far off of what you'd expect from an Ultimate Edition. I'm not going to complain if the same release ends up on an early bird deal for £25, but I'm not sure how likely that'd be.
The figure I've had in my head these last few years is £36, so it probably was around that mark. For reference, did you back the Kickstarter? Because obviously someone who didn't back it wouldn't complain about paying £10 less on an Early Bird, but what about the people who have already paid up-front well in advance?

I'd have thought that contributing to the release actually happening in the first place might have some value to backers. I'm still not sure why they'd be upset about other people getting access to that release. Well, to be more precise, I can only really see bad reasons to be upset.

I suppose I'm in danger of going on about it too much though. Still, it'd be nice to get a decent explanation of why backers might be upset rather than having to rely on my own assumptions.
To be blunt, backers took a risk by pledging up-front almost three years ago; look at all the cancelled or disappointing fully-funded gaming Kickstarters for example and look at all the delays we've already had to put up with, for something we've already paid for. People who didn't back it however, have had the luxury of watching things unfold from a safe distance, knowing that they can choose how to spend their money at any time.
For example, look at Mighty No.9 - not only were backers seriously pissed about the eventual quality, but by the fact that reviewers got copies before backers did.

Basically, we subjected ourselves to greater risk, so our rewards should be greater. I don't object to a cheaper mass market release later down the line, but getting it notably earlier is a fair exchange for the greater cost and risk of backing.

Besides, the six month period was promised to backers months ago, so Anime Limited have to stick to their word now. Can you imagine the fallout if they suddenly went against it?
 
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If (heaven forbid) the release has an error on the disc, non backers would change their tune I'd imagine! Like Joshawott said, we backers are on the front line doing work! We died paid for your sins.
 
If (heaven forbid) the release has an error on the disc, non backers would change their tune I'd imagine! Like Joshawott said, we backers are on the front line doing work! We died paid for your sins.
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Don't even joke about that! :p
 
Proposal: I know you want it off your plate and this is extra work, @anime_andrew , but is it worth running a poll on the Kickstarter asking the backers for what they think? To see which moaning minority is actually bigger, once and for all...

Personally I don't care if the gap is smaller. Though I've seen how people kick off when people who purchased later get their stuff first for non-Kickstarters, so I completely understand why you'd want a gap to allow the backers to get their copies first at least.

R
 
You really think that KS Backers are going to willingly turn around and say that they don't mind if the plebeian non-backers could be granted the honor (And it is an honor) to purchase a copy of Mai Mai Miracle™ with the queens legal and plastic non vegan friendly tender within a 6 month period? Kickstarter is powered by suffering my good friend.
 
To be honest, I can't see the majority of backers voting to forfeit their timed exclusivity; not out of spite or anything like that, but simply because they'd have nothing to gain by doing so. In fact, unless Anime Limited price-match with the Kickstarter tiers (which would be higher than usual retail), then they may feel that they've lost. Besides, it may be wiser to release it to general audiences closer to when Animatsu Ent. release In This Corner of the World anyway (do we have an ETA on that?).

So.. who else backed the artbook? I did (and it looks great based on the photos I saw).
I pledged enough to get a digital artbook, but not the printed one (that mad jump in price yo). Tempted to print out the page with my name on it :p.
 
Basically, we subjected ourselves to greater risk, so our rewards should be greater. I don't object to a cheaper mass market release later down the line, but getting it notably earlier is a fair exchange for the greater cost and risk of backing.
There were a few similar comments so I'm just picking out one. I'm still not seeing how other people not having access to the release is a benefit to backers. Whether someone else has the release or not doesn't really have anything to do with you, it doesn't affect your copy and you're still getting what you paid for. Other backers will get the same release, so why does it matter that people who happen to have not been backers (for whatever reason) can pick up the release as well?

Even if it did matter what other people are getting, you could argue that the backers paid for the release to happen and it being available to others is a positive outcome of their efforts. They can feel good about helping to make a release that others can enjoy. One of the rewards is even credit for their contribution, which is more meaningful if more people can view it and appreciate the release.

Though it may not affect many/any backers, the delay could potentially be an issue for backers that were hoping to pick up additional copies (maybe for family/friends).

The pricing issue is a slightly more complex one, but backers do get benefits that non-backers don't (including credit and other backer rewards) so it's not a clear cut case that a cheaper or similarly priced release would be a negative for backers. There's also the fact that a good chunk of the money paid by backers goes to Kickstarter in fees, that's something that wouldn't have to be paid for a conventional release and having that saving passed on to customers is perfectly reasonable. At the end of the day though, making people wait doesn't actually change what backers paid so they're still not really benefitting.

As far as I can tell, backers would only be complaining because of a perceived loss and that perception doesn't seem to have any rational or reasonable basis. They feel like it's a loss, so they treat it as such, but there's not much to support that view. Meanwhile, the delay for non-backers is a measureable negative and even has aspects that are potentially negative for backers.

It's perfectly reasonable to ensure that fulfilment for backers is taken care of first, but placing an unnecessary limitation on the wider release seems to be unjustifiable. It'd be different if there were practical reasons for the delay, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Besides, the six month period was promised to backers months ago, so Anime Limited have to stick to their word now. Can you imagine the fallout if they suddenly went against it?
Some people are going to be upset either way, they can't entirely "win". I think I'd prefer that they did the right thing and went with the option that actually benefits people rather than keeping to their word just because some people would be unreasonably upset. Personally, I'd rather be faced with unreasonable complaints that I can happily ignore than reasonable complaints about an issue I could have solved.

Honesty is important but they could honestly explain that they're going with the fairest option by not needlessly delaying the release. I don't think it'd really cause a major blow to confidence in Anime Limited. It's not like the release has gone entirely to plan anyway, circumstances change and things that were said in the past may no longer be relevant.

Hey, if we can wait two years for the product to be delivered (the initial delivery date was November 2014), you can wait six months for a general release. Like, have some patience. It's not like there isn't anything else airing right now.
I might have covered this but I'd like to clarify the point anyway. The issue isn't really the waiting, it's that there's no good reason for it. If there were practical concerns or other reasonable issues causing the delay then it'd be unfortunate but understandable. The actual reason for the delay is because people might complain if there isn't one. That's a terrible reason and it doesn't seem to go any deeper than that (especially since the complaints in question would be unjustified).
 
I'm still not seeing how other people not having access to the release is a benefit to backers.
Because maybe they want to feel special by having something that not many other people have, at least for a while. Especially when they've waited three years, during which time AL could have gone bust and the backers' investments gone bye-bye, and have felt every delay more keenly than those who haven't paid any money.

Not rational or reasonable? Well, no, human beings aren't. This ain't rocket science.
 
You're speaking a little like a robot, humans are as you put it often devoid of any rationality or reason. It doesn't matter what makes logical sense, I want mine and don't care what anyone else gets because the world revolves around me and I want to feel special. This notion isn't a new one, it’s a core tenant of consumerism. There's definitely legitimate reasons as to why something could be considered limited and special but most of the time it very much is a manufactured element made in order to make the consumer feel special, like why people feel the need to purchase clothing with designer logos on them that were made in the very same sweatshops and often constructed from the very same materials as much cheaper non branded alternatives. We spend our insignificant lives amidst the ever expanding universe that amounts to nothing, but as long as I get my Blu-ray 6 months before everyone else I feel at ease.
 
To be blunt @Smeelia, if some people are going to be upset either way, doesn't it make more sense for Anime Limited to ensure that the least upset side is the 1,000+ people who have already collectively forked over $107,000 for this release, over an undetermined number who have yet to pledge even a penny? No one has ever said that we want Mai Mai Miracle to remain Kickstarter exclusive; just that we are in favour of Anime Limited honouring the previously promised hold-back period, before releasing to general sale.

Outside of the pricing differences between Kickstarter and expected retail, this isn't even about an idea of "losing out" because a non-backer owns the same items we do. After all, only the standard edition of Mai Mai Miracle will reach retail (although the backer tier for that was $35; far more than market value of standard edition movies). It's about mutual respect between Anime Limited and the backers; as @fabio de lunatico noted, backing this release was more than just a glorified pre-order and under the worst of circumstances, we could have potentially lost our investments and had nothing to show for it. This hold-back is a token of appreciation for the trust backers placed in Anime Limited, as noted in their first mention of it (November 2015; a whole year ago...so why is it suddenly an issue now?):
As promised, you can only get the collector's editions via the Kickstarter campaign and will not be available for retail purchase. The only retail copies that will be available (as mentioned at the start of the campaign) will be the standard edition amaray release.

These will NOT be available at retail outlets until 6 months after Kickstarter backer copies have been shipped. For backers of the amaray tier, you deserve a certain exclusivity for taking a chance and backing our Kickstarter campaign. And we will honour this with the delay to market.
 
Just my opinion, I didn't back Mai Mai Miracle but I did back Patema Inverted and seeing it in shops before I got my copy was very annoying and kinda made the whole thing seem pointless and took away from anything special about being a 'backer' and seeing that this product actually came into being.
So yes, I think a 6 month delay is perfectly acceptable!

Ps. Obviously I'm upset I missed the Collector's Edition (Any leftover sets you wanna do a deal on Andrew and ship it in 6 months is fine with me)
 
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