Relationships and Romance

Vashdaman said:
I've been giving online dating sites another whirl recently. No dates yet.

I've been on Tinder and OK Cupid as I don't have any money to pay for subscriptions. I don't like Tinder because it forces me to be a shallow person and only 'like' people based purely on appearance since you can't even read their bios without paying, or at least I don't seem to be able to. I've had no matches yet. I randomly saw my cousin's picture on it though...she has a long term boyfriend she has children with. I'm not sure whether to tell her in case she forgot to delete her profile, or just pretend I didn't see it because, you know, it's awk.

OK Cupid is better in the sense that you usually get some vague preliminary idea of the person from the profiles (I don't understand why some people don't bother filling them in at all, might as well stick to tinds). But it has its own foibles. First of all, I find the match percentage rating thing to be a questionable device, I can only see it reinforcing peoples' prejudices and unfair aversions to people different from themselves, rather than encouraging meeting new types of people. Not to mention that most of its questions are pretty trivial and flawed. Although I have been shocked by just how many people think jealously is healthy in a relationship, and that the rich should not pay more tax. I'm less surprised by the amount of people who say they will not date someone with debt, or who is a student (I'm both of those things). Also, you can't see 'likes' unless you pay, you just have to message someone and hope they're also interested in you, and since I'm big believer in well thought out, eloquent introductory messages this is an arduous and time consuming business when I know there's a very high likelihood I won't receive a reply. Indeed, I haven't had one yet.

Yeah I think this internet thing isn't for me. I'm an acquired taste, I literally have no qualities that are immediately appealing enough to entice an internet dater. I'll probably delete my profiles soon.
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I've not used Tinder, so I can't really make an informed opinion, but based on what you said, there's not really much to go on if all you're doing is swiping through pictures. You definitely need more to go on than just a photograph. I have used a dating site in the past though, and you're right about profiles - some people are just plain LAZY when it comes to adding even little bits of vital information. It used to infuriate me when I'd see things like, "Just ask me" or "Add me on [insert social media of choice here]" - no, I want to see that you're at least taking this thing seriously and you're wanting to make a concerted effort. I'm going to disagree somewhat with what ayase said, in that yes, while it may seem shallow to tick boxes in order to find a match, some people find that this works better for them. For instance, if you specify that you want someone who doesn't have children, or who is a non-smoker, you can check the desired boxes and the database will generate your best matches. As someone who specifically doesn't want children, it would be a whole lot easier for me to specify that from the off from a ticked box, rather than have to bring it up un the 3rd or 4th date. I'm not saying that doing it that way would bother me in particular, since I'd rather be honest and end up with no-one than end up having kids to please someone, but my point is, some people just find it easier to specify the non-negotiables and specific preferences from the off. At the end of the day, people are within rights to have preferences in lifestyle choices, particularly if it would have an effect on them in some way.

Dating sites can be useful, but only if you use them the right way. You do need to exercise caution, yes - many people do just sign up because they like the attention, and you do need to beware for those who are not who they claim to be in their photos and profiles! If you use them sensibly, and fill out a decent profile, you tend to find some good matches. My first proper relationship of 15 months was the result of a dating site, and whilst it wasn't meant to be, I learned alot about myself for sure.

There's nothing wrong with taking a break form dating sites though as well. Just work on your own self - look after yourself and do things for you. Hobbies, interests, just focus on yourself for a couple of months, and maybe you'll get back into it with a fresh mind. Don't lose hope!
 
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It's probably different depending on what people want or expect from a partner. It's fair enough for those like you Aya, who do have specific expectations of a potential partner (and I guess you're probably okay with them having specific expectations of you) but for me personally, as someone who doesn't really like placing expectations on others or having expectations placed on me, that list is two items long and very subjective - I need to find someone physically attractive and I need to enjoy their company. I can't quantify either of those things easily in words or criteria because I'm capable of finding very different people attractive.

You're totally within your rights to have expectations of people, it seems like most people do. But for those of us who kinda don't really expect much from others, it can seem like a daunting list of demands which excludes people from their affections for what seems like shallow reasons. They might be good reasons, but I imagine it's a bit disheartening to read down someone's profile you think seems like a good fit only to find they've drawn a red line because you have a kid, just as it is to find they've drawn a red line because you're three inches too short. I think part of this is probably because these situations would rarely happen with face to face encounters - If you meet someone and are incredibly attracted to them in real life, you're a lot less likely to care about a few inches of height or pounds of weight (or their job or the fact they have credit card debt, to go back to Vash's post). In solitude, I think people think about what they want in a partner with their heads. In person, I think it's more the case that the heart takes over.
 
ayase said:
It's probably different depending on what people want or expect from a partner. It's fair enough for those like you Aya, who do have specific expectations of a potential partner (and I guess you're probably okay with them having specific expectations of you) but for me personally, as someone who doesn't really like placing expectations on others or having expectations placed on me, that list is two items long and very subjective - I need to find someone physically attractive and I need to enjoy their company. I can't quantify either of those things easily in words or criteria because I'm capable of finding very different people attractive.

You're totally within your rights to have expectations of people, it seems like most people do. But for those of us who kinda don't really expect much from others, it can seem like a daunting list of demands which excludes people from their affections for what seems like shallow reasons. They might be good reasons, but I imagine it's a bit disheartening to read down someone's profile you think seems like a good fit only to find they've drawn a red line because you have a kid, just as it is to find they've drawn a red line because you're three inches too short. I think part of this is probably because these situations would rarely happen with face to face encounters - If you meet someone and are incredibly attracted to them in real life, you're a lot less likely to care about a few inches of height or pounds of weight (or their job or the fact they have credit card debt, to go back to Vash's post). In solitude, I think people think about what they want in a partner with their heads. In person, I think it's more the case that the heart takes over.
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It is very subjective I think, and I was really referring to the specific choices in lifestyle, which again, I totally don't see an issue with someone preferring a non-child relationship, or a non-smoker, non-drinker etc. There might even be religious reasons fueling some of those specific choices. To me, those aren't really shallow expectations - a person's lifestyle can have an effect on the other person; my Mum is a smoker, and whilst I don't judge, I don't particularly like it since the smell sticks and I inhale second hand smoke. I don't judge other people's lifestyle choices (at least, I try not to); people are totally entitled to do as they please, but when it comes to the prospect of a committed relationship, I feel that people do have a right to be more chosey regarding these kinds of things. I am something of a non-conformist - I don't want children, and I'm on the fence about marriage, since as a feminist I can't bring myself to believe in an archaic institution that has it's roots in Patriarchy. I'm also aware of just how much that may limit my prospects at finding a suitable partner, since this is "out of the norm", however, I don't think I'm placing high expectations on anyone but myself. If I don't find someone, I don't find someone, and I've made peace with this. I think you just have to be strong of character and confident in your own self to be able to stick to your own principles in a society that perpetuates the idea of being in a relationship as "the one true way". I am perfectly content with friends if I'm honest. Sure if something were to happen at some point in the future and it felt right, cool, but I'm not actively looking for anything right now, and if it doesn't happen, I'm also cool with that - it's not the be all and end all for me. Again, I would stipulate on no uncertain terms my views on childbearing and marriage to any potential dates, even those I meet in person rather than online, and if the person has different wants and needs out of life that I cannot fulfill, so be it! The person could have the best personality, and be the most respectful human in existence, but if they want children, I'm out - it's 100% non-negotiable for me; it's not something you can compromise on. I simply won't let lonelyness drive me into the arms of someone purely because I feel pressured by society to be in a relationship and avoid the status of crazy cat lady.

Indeed, when it comes to expectations that are based on physical appearance, I can well understand this being perceived as shallow. If someone writes that they prefer "only to date tall people" or "must not be too big/fat", then these expectations are being a little bit more ridiculous. Being tall or short isn't a lifetsyle choice, it's genetics. You can't help how you look, and to have expectations based on physical attributes really IS shallow! In terms of personality, at the very LEAST I want respect and honesty - don't be an a$$hole; don't be nice to me but rude to the waiter, as I believe Mohammed Ali once said. Have passions, have goals - I don't mean you have to want to be the CEO of some massive company, but goals that are important and relevant to YOU! It can be something as simple as, "I want to become a more positive person", so long as it's a goal that is important to you.
 
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Wow there's a slight case of divisive polotics here (or from my view at least)
~AyaMachi~ said:
since as a feminist I can't bring myself to believe in an archaic institution that has it's roots in Patriarchy
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You see, I don't label myself as anything, I would say I'm an egalitarian and my polotics are much more central then left or right, but I do feel further to the right when someone barks up that they're a feminist, it's just what I've seen in some people, what more mainstream avanues "agree" with and that 50 gender rubbish that has no real descriptor or any proof from hard or soft science, I do prize using evidence and proof of something's existence (though my nihilism would have me say none of it has value over anything else) feminists can be sensible, funny and kind people, like I feel you are aya, it's just the insanity of it is more visible then the more sensible people.

Political bit over!

As for the relationship thing, I haven't changed my mind on what affects the current dating climate, and my own situation still hasn't changed, I'd like to be surprised though, and with passion. The world feels kind of like a lot of people are dead inside, and I'm bored by it and see no point in continuing a farce full of corpses with beating hearts, perhaps that's where my nihilism comes from?
 
Captaaainuniverse said:
The world feels kind of like a lot of people are dead inside, and I'm bored by it and see no point in continuing a farce full of corpses with beating hearts
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Reminds me of Rei's monologue in The End of Evangelion:
"This world is overflowing with sorrow. Its people are drowning in emptiness. Loneliness fills their hearts."

I guess Hideaki Anno saw this too at one point.

(Just for fun, I posted that quote on my Facebook page on Valentine's Day. You know, just to balance out the mood. ;))
 
D1tchd1gger said:
Wasn't he suffering from depression when making NGE!
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He was, yeah. He finished making NGE and then seemed to think there was nothing left, like his life's work was done already and there was no point in making anything else. That's really sad.

Apparently it was a phone call from his former mentor (turned sort of rival) Hayao Miyazaki that turned it around. He told Anno to "just take as much time off as you need; it'll come back." I think Anno was out of the game completely for something like six months. I seem to remember reading something about him just aimlessly wandering around, wearing geta in the cold of winter.

I'm guessing the scenes of Shinji's wandering in that Animator Expo short 'Until You Come to Me' are based on that.
 
Neil.T said:
Reminds me of Rei's monologue in The End of Evangelion:
"This world is overflowing with sorrow. Its people are drowning in emptiness. Loneliness fills their hearts."

I guess Hideaki Anno saw this too at one point.

(Just for fun, I posted that quote on my Facebook page on Valentine's Day. You know, just to balance out the mood. ;))
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Oh awesome out come the weeabo Laytons "this reminds me of an anime/manga"

There is a school of thought that says writers are usually depressed, so are artists, lots of people good in the creative art apparently, there are a few things in EoEVA that certainly do reflect a sense of depression, the way it actually ends for one, as shinji's choice, that is, if he actually made one, didn't really matter. Writers can go through a lot in their own lives when they start writing stuff like that.
The stuff I'm going through now can be remedied in a couple of days, I'm mostly worried about what I'm going to do without proper access to my account, I still think if I worked towards it though I could write at least one good thing.

And balance out the mood? Valentines say has always been dreary, narcissists begging for people to show them love, not me. If it's a day off, I'm either drinking or watching a tonne of anime
 
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Captaaainuniverse said:
Wow there's a slight case of divisive polotics here (or from my view at least)

You see, I don't label myself as anything, I would say I'm an egalitarian and my polotics are much more central then left or right, but I do feel further to the right when someone barks up that they're a feminist, it's just what I've seen in some people, what more mainstream avanues "agree" with and that 50 gender rubbish that has no real descriptor or any proof from hard or soft science, I do prize using evidence and proof of something's existence (though my nihilism would have me say none of it has value over anything else) feminists can be sensible, funny and kind people, like I feel you are aya, it's just the insanity of it is more visible then the more sensible people.

Political bit over!

As for the relationship thing, I haven't changed my mind on what affects the current dating climate, and my own situation still hasn't changed, I'd like to be surprised though, and with passion. The world feels kind of like a lot of people are dead inside, and I'm bored by it and see no point in continuing a farce full of corpses with beating hearts, perhaps that's where my nihilism comes from?
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Many thanks dude, I really appreciate that ^^ To be honest, I guess I use feminism because I'm a woman, and I feel like I identify more with the kind of things women are fighting for in regards to equality, but that certainly doesn't mean that I would feel that any of the differing gnender identities should be denied any rights at all. Even if I don't fully understand something, like being agender for example - I'm not really aware of how someone doesn't identify with either gender, but I would never belittle their choice of label and identity that works for them, nor would I feel that they're not deserving of the same rights. I agree that feminism as a movement has, unfortunately in recent years, not been taken very seriusly, and you do get the elitists that ruin it for people by taking it too far, perpetuating misandry when that is not what true feminism is about - feminism is the belief of equal right for both men and women, it's that simple. Feminism even benefits men. The Patriarchy tells men that they should be strong all the time, that they're not allowed to cry and show emotions, and that's just absolute rubbish in my opinion.

I'm certainly not going to justify my stance to anyone who is uncomfortale with me and my beliefs - they can like or lump!

Ah dude, don't lose hope :) Just focus on you, I know I keep saying that, but it's true. If you're not mentally or emotionally ready to commit to finding someone to be in a relationship, then you need to acknowledge that and work on looking after yourself, trust me, I speak from experience. You seem like a decent bloke to be fair, and you certainly make me laugh and we have a good old chat here ^^ It's true, I do think that in today's society indeed, we're worked harder, so people are working longer hours and when they're not working, they're probably catching up on sleep/social time with friends/family etc. We tend to hide behind social media alot which means that people aren't really communicating in a real sense, and it seems to take more effort to actually get out there and sell yourself. But, there are good people out there :)
 
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Vashdaman said:
Yep, I think I'm more in this camp. I really don't have any criteria or expectations of what a potential romantic partner should be like. I don't particularly like the smell of smoke either, and I'm not the greatest or most experienced person at looking after kids (despite having studied child care), but those things wouldn't preclude me liking and falling in love with someone. Really I'm not sure I'm able to articulate or quantify anything at all that would make romance impossible. You either just click or you don't.

But these questionnaires have people looking for exact replicas of themselves, it really impinges on the chances of meeting surprising people who are different from you, but who you may end up just loving. It even effects me, like, when I see that someone thinks the rich shouldn't pay more tax I start thinking "hmm, should I really bother messaging this person" but that's a ridiculously small thing to be put off by when you really think about it, and they might be an utterly lovely person who just happens to have a different political opinion (or maybe they just haven't thought about it very much, or have a bad education). I would perhaps even go as far as to say I could even potentially fall in love with a borderline racist. That sounds controversial but let me qualify that; I was talking to my friend recently and he's been going out with a Japanese woman for the last few months, she's from a small town and doesn't have a great education. Apparently she used to make some pretty racist remarks like "Oh black people are scary", not hateful stuff but the kind racial stereotyping that is probably prevalent in a region with an inordinately small amount of racial diversity even for a country with a general lack of racial diversity. But of course my friend has been disapproving of those comments and apparently she's slowly changing. My friend really likes her and says that she really has a heart of gold. How great is that, they seem to have found love with each other and someone is becoming less racist out of the deal too.

Would they have 'matched' on a dating site, no way, it would probably be a 0% match. I suspect I wouldn't have had a very high match percentage with my only ex girlfriend either, and despite me scuppering it, we were a great match in reality.
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Hmmm, I guess it depends. I've never really been heavily invested in politics, nor have I been involved with anyone who has a particular political sway, but, if someone holds very strong political views and they differ from your own (like chalk and cheese), then it can potentially make things complicated. If it's more lightweight stuff that can be over-looked in spite of differing views, then I guess it can work. I guess it's subjective; it's down to how much you value your own political beliefs, but also how much you can come to respect the views of others.

As for the Japanese lady you speak of, I'm guessing it's as you said - she's grown up in a very homogenous society with little regard for what goes on outsiede the confines of her country's boundaries. As such Japanese people can be xenophobic, and often don't really understand implications of such remarks. You mention she is making steps to improve, and understand how we tolerate things in Western society, so that's positive!
 
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she's from a small town and doesn't have a great education. Apparently she used to make some pretty racist remarks like "Oh black people are scary
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technically she's a bigot not a racist because she showed prejudice towards a person or group member based solely on their group membership, kinda like how you just implied uneducated people are racist.
 
Why do you always post such pointless things @Watanabe Ken, just like you did in the other thread about multiculturalism?
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Because I don't view them as pointless, but perhaps you could quote a specific thing I've said that you find pointless so can explain my reasoning to you. because like you said education does help alot with ignorance.
 
Vashdaman said:
Fair enough, I can't be bothered to argue, it's just that I thought it was pretty obvious what I was trying to say in my post, it seemed like you were just being pedantic and argumentative without really adding anything relevant to the discussion at hand. But maybe I was wrong.
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Fair enough I won't press you any further, but it's a shame I was actually curious about your experience with "being educated" as you put it
 
There's education and there's Education. If you're racist, you definitely need to be educated, but that doesn't mean you necessarily need to go to school and sit a science exam in order to break out of your preconceptions. Most forms of discrimination are directly based on ignorance in the first place: women are scary because they threaten the status quo which benefits me, black people are scary because some black people are physically bigger than me, Jewish people are scary because they have more money than me, foreigners are scary because I can't understand their language and they might be plotting against me, old people are scary because they're all too stubborn to listen; they're all silly stereotypes which spiral out of control and end up with people judging entire groups of innocent people using the same assumptions (and in many tragic cases, acting on those feelings to the detriment of others).

(I don't personally believe any of these things, obviously!)

If Vash had said 'all people who do poorly at school are racists' he'd have been out of line, but that's not what education means. She's ignorant, and as a result she is racist. There are ignorant people at all levels of formal education, and the ones at 'the top' have far less excuse for it because they were often given the tools to see past their preconceptions on a silver platter. They looked the other way instead. I've often found this frustrating in dealing with my exceptionally well-educated friends who don't see some blatant truths staring them right in the face because they prefer not to confront them; I know they have the understanding to be able to process these things, but instead they say embarrassingly ridiculous things unless I call them out on it and force them to engage properly. So I can relate to Vash being more tolerant of bad attitudes when he knows that the person lacks the knowledge to think otherwise at that time. It doesn't mean she's dumb, or incapable of learning when she's taught.

To use a less contentious example, someone once told me 'if you're really an atheist, how can you possibly know right from wrong?' - a ridiculous statement given that I'm a frighteningly boring person who would never hurt a fly. But what would have been the point in getting mad at someone saying something so fundamentally ignorant rather than deliberately malicious? I just talked to them about it. If they had continued saying that kind of thing after I explained that I had my own (perfectly functional) moral compass, I would consider them educated in the matter and judge them rather more harshly. But everyone has been guilty of saying dumb things in ignorance at some point or other; I know I'm the same way. Educating myself has been a conscious choice and I'm still learning :/

R
 
women are scary because they threaten the status quo
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Lets be honest women are only scary when they have a weapon in there hand or are Ronda Rousey, but I think your hinting at the whole backlash to feminism which is different from finding women scary because for one the majority of women aren't feminists and don't think women are inferior to men like feminist seem to do, because like it or not stopping a group of people from applying for jobs because the colour of there skin and what's between their legs is wrong no matter how you dress it up.

black people are scary because some black people are physically bigger than me
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I've actually never heard this before. I thought the negative stereotypes of black people come from there portrayal in the media, television, moves and rap music, but maybe it is something simple as the Harlem Globetrotters being really tall.

foreigners are scary because I can't understand their language
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this is a logical fear in the case of Japan because most Japanese people don't speak English or any other language for that matter, and sitting next to someone on a train who might talk to you in a language you don't understand can be very daunting for them.

But I agree with your other examples and think I understand better what he meant by educate. I personally would of chose a different word for challenging ones perceived perceptions of people because when you use it refer to someone other than yourself it comes across as very condescending.
 
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