in anime and/or manga which is your expertise

Jaymii said:
I did kinda specify JUMP stuff. They do fanservice-y crap on occasion, but it's rare for them to last long.

edit: I did also have it written as "the moe aesthetic" at one point to avoid all that, even though I specifically mean the more pandering, weak and terribly sad shows. I've seen Hayate, for instance and it works and Haruhi arguably embraces elements of it and I adore that world.
Click to expand...
Jump actualy got famous by being fansevice heavy, via Go Nagai.
Ichigo 100% is the last big one I know of in it.
Does seem to be the most kiddy of the shounen magazines these days. Still has lots of pandering

Haruhi the characters are archetypal moe chara (tsundere, gap moe & Ayanami Rei) and it does almost nothing but pander the whole way through.
 
I care so very little. I've read a couple of the books and it's self-aware mocking. I enjoy that timetravel, aliens, aliens and pseudo Gods are being told in high school. I could do without all the big eyes and huge breasts, because I enjoy inherent sad story beats that underscore everything that happens in that show. Kyon is an interesting unreliable narrator and it gives a decent viewpoint for the show. I don't like Asahina much because she represents what I dislike in anime, but her place in that group is basically another part of The Breakfast Club: Haruhi wanted a moe archetype and she got one.

There might be pandering, but I choose to believe that it's intentional and self-aware enough that its not earnestly doing it.
 
Reaper gI said:
Haruhi the characters are archetypal moe chara (tsundere, gap moe & Ayanami Rei) and it does almost nothing but pander the whole way through.
Click to expand...
Rubbish. Haruhi constantly demonstrates how self aware and tongue in cheek it is through Kyon's observations (doesn't stop them milking it for merchandise which does a lot more pandering of course, but then look at Evangelion).
 
Jaymii said:
I could do without all the big eyes and huge breasts...
... I don't like Asahina much because she represents what I dislike in anime, but her place in that group is basically another part of The Breakfast Club: Haruhi wanted a moe archetype and she got one.

There might be pandering, but I choose to believe that it's intentional and self-aware enough that its not earnestly doing it.
Click to expand...
If it wasn't self aware it wouldn't be pandering. Carry on films adding "boing" doesn't stop it being blatant service.

It's the disparity between how young her face looks and how adult body does that's Mikuru's moe point (and the fact she's older than the character she's portraying).
There's also the cosplay, maids, nurses, bunny girls etc.
If you made her less doe eyed (to say Haruhi's level), and made her actualy 17 she'd no longer be moe (except in cosplay)


Lawrence said:
Reaper, compare if you will the modern literacy classic that is "The melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" with my absolute favourite show of this season "Dog Days".

Suddenly in the scale of things, Haruhi isn't half as pandering.
Click to expand...
Compare it to Kaiji and it still looks like pr0n though. It is a show mostly conisting of Mikuru being molested to the point of attempted rape, that's actualy prety severe.
 
Don't parodies kinda... have to be the things they are parodying in order to parody them? Sure Mikuru is moe, no-one is debating that, but she isn't moe for the same reason as most moe characters.

Reaper gI said:
It is a show mostly consisting of Mikuru being molested to the point of attempted rape
Click to expand...
Or those are the bits which stuck in your mind... Haruhi can hardly be said to "mostly consist" of Mikuru molestation.





Another topic derailed. Well done team. Next week we hit the mail train carrying the used banknotes.
 
Thread just got interesting...

I love how Haruhi simultaneously panders and pokes fun at the very people it's pandering to. There's nothing particularly clever about that but Haruhi gets away with it because the characters are more than otaku bait stereotypes and the script is so witty and the show effortlessly encompasses so many genres and most importantly because it's FUN.

The otaku, of course, may only care that Mikuru has a cute face and hot body and that Yuki is a Rei clone and whatever else floats their dingy boats. But that's okay because they keep buying merch and that enables Kyoto Animation to keep making more Haruhi. Everyone's a winnah.
 
Jaymii said:
To be honest, Kaiji "panders" to the gamblers and mullet-haired people of this world then.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be "panders to people moe for gamblers and mullets"? I can't imagine there's much of an audience for that Japan, so it wouldn't surprise me to hear that Kaiji sold poorly on DVD...
 
Kaiji is, essentially, gambling and mullet porn. The gambling aspects in particular are far worse than the comparisons being drawn with Haruhi as a "rape show" (somehow not the most laughable thing reaper has come out with on this forum).

Lawrence said:
Reaper, compare if you will the modern literacy classic that is "The melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" with my absolute favourite show of this season "Dog Days".
Click to expand...

ayase said:
Another topic derailed. Well done team. Next week we hit the mail train carrying the used banknotes.
Click to expand...
lolled at both of those.

Also, did Tachi try to be me on the first page but get it totally wrong? :lol:
 
fabricatedlunatic said:
Jaymii said:
To be honest, Kaiji "panders" to the gamblers and mullet-haired people of this world then.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be "panders to people moe for gamblers and mullets"? I can't imagine there's much of an audience for that Japan, so it wouldn't surprise me to hear that Kaiji sold poorly on DVD...
Click to expand...
Don't think it's aiming for dvd sales, is it sposored like NoitaminA or the kids stuff.

Tries to remmeber moe theory...
Think mullet-moe would be okay but not gambling.
Don't think you can get moe from an activity itself, and there's no uniform associated with gambling, doesn't work as a personality type either it's too broad.

The pandering to gamblers is right though, why else would there be Kaiji pachinko machines.
 
Jaymii said:
I don't really want to defend him, but the questions he's asking in all them threads are indeed different enough. It might be worth opening a dedicated ANIMEFREAK17 thread where he can ask all this stuff though.
Click to expand...

This, because it may just work
 
Reaper gI said:
gambling, doesn't work as a personality type either it's too broad.
Click to expand...
I disagree moderately strongly. I've seen (I would "bet", haha) and spoken to hundreds of times more compulsive gamblers than you have, and they pretty much all share certain character traits and personality aspects, on some level. There is a mentality and attitude behind compulsive gambling that definitely appeals to some people.
 
Hmm I'm confused, there can be different types of moe? Based on my conversations here I gathered that moe simply referred to the slightly disturbing females who have ridiculously large eyes, small bodies and non existent persoanlities.

But there can be mullet-moe, I'm all for mullets!
 
Moe, as being discussed here, just means 'affection for' or similar. It's like the word "otaku" in that it can be used for anything, but it has strong connotations to one thing.
 
So Kaiji is pandering to gamblers by being a series focused on gambling? I don't really see it. Wouldn't Kaiji himself need to be seen in a more positive light? He loses constantly and somehow manages to scrape by, he's not really a glorious advert for gambling as a lifestyle.

If anything, I'd say Fukumoto's other series, Akagi, is more likely pandering to a certain audience. The manga runs in a mahjong magazine, the central character is a genius mahjong player who defeats criminals with his game and the vast bulk of the action consists of intense deconstruction of each player's mahjong hand and their possible strategies for winning at mahjong.
 
I think it was being proposed that Kaiji was a series which pandered to people who liked people who gamble, rather than to actual gamblers. Of course the whole thing was somewhat tongue in cheek and more of a counter to the Haruhi claims than making a point of its own ;)

R
 
Back
Top