Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (Rewatch)

[Professor Irony]

Ah, the adventures of Jean Seberg-droid...

He's a lonely guy who had sexual ideals relating to androids I suppose. He seemed to be pretty useless around real women.

I don't think that it's a sexual thing for Marshall. Personally, I'd have thought it was more about his wanting to live in the fantasy world he sees in the French new-wave movies, but I dunno...

There's a lot of reference to the work of Jean-Luc Godard in this episode, but I can't really grasp what point they're driving at. The most prominent two films would appear to be A bout de Souffle and Alphaville (the two cans Togusa holds up), but I've seen both and I don't remember any of the dialogue that Marshall and Jerry appear to be acting out. The film that Togusa's wife is watching doesn't look familiar either.

You could possibly see it as some sort of cautionary tale about the danger of idealised nostalgia. Togusa and Batou both cling to relics from before their time (the revolver and the classic Lancia), but Marshall seems to have taken this to an absolute extreme - building himself into a romanticised vision of '60s France. Only the Major seems grateful that time has moved on, recalling her earlier prosthetic body with its imprecise controls.

 

[shira]

I don't think that it's a sexual thing for Marshall. Personally, I'd have thought it was more about his wanting to live in the fantasy world he sees in the French new-wave movies, but I dunno...

I far prefer your way of seeing it, actually. I was not familiar with any of Jean-Luc Goddard's work.

You could possibly see it as some sort of cautionary tale about the danger of idealised nostalgia. Togusa and Batou both cling to relics from before their time (the revolver and the classic Lancia), but Marshall seems to have taken this to an absolute extreme - building himself into a romanticised vision of '60s France. Only the Major seems grateful that time has moved on, recalling her earlier prosthetic body with its imprecise controls.

I really like your way of seeing this too - I never picked this up at all I only question about Marshall's nostalgia. Is it implied that her programmed the Android to re-enact the films dialogue then? (/idiot mode). I think I like this episode even more after reading what you've wrote about it actually I think I'd like to rewatch it with this in mind next time.

 

[HdE]

Only just saw your response to my earlier post, Godot - i've been chained to my drawing board tonight, so only had a few odd chances to nip in and check posts.

He's a lonely guy who had sexual ideals relating to androids I suppose. He seemed to be pretty useless around real women.

I think that's pretty much on the money, although I've always thought that aspect of the episode - Marshall's awkwardness around girls - could have maybe been developed a little more. As is, I really find him a hard character to sympathise with.

(It should be noted that I've known some alarmingly oddball and socially inept young men in my time. Give them an android girlfriend for a day abnd I'm sure some of them would explode with delight!)

Did you not find it interesting how she displayed signs of a Ghost depsite the fact she is an android?

I think it adds an interesting layer to the episode, and the ending gives it a certain unsettling edge. But for me, personally, it's a sci-fi conceit that I have seen explored better elsewhere.

That said, I think this is a strong episode. It's just not one that speaks to me thematically.

 

[Professor Irony]

I really like your way of seeing this too - I never picked this up at all I only question about Marshall's nostalgia. Is it implied that her programmed the Android to re-enact the films dialogue then? (/idiot mode). I think I like this episode even more after reading what you've wrote about it actually I think I'd like to rewatch it with this in mind next time.

Cool, I aim to please

But yeah, reading between the lines, I think Marshall must have programmed Jerry to behave like the lead actress in the film Togusa's wife is watching. The new-wave presented an intoxicating vision of '60s France as an ultra-hip playground for the young, so it wouldn't surprise me that, presented with the opportunity, someone would try to live in that particular fantasy.

Just for good measure, here's a still from A bout de Souffle

 

[shira]

I think that's pretty much on the money, although I've always thought that aspect of the episode - Marshall's awkwardness around girls - could have maybe been developed a little more. As is, I really find him a hard character to sympathise with.

Lol don't worry HdE

And yeah - there is little development on it. I think a lot of it would just be 'explaining how it is' though. I mean I think we could assume he had people like him for the wrong reasons (He's got diplomatic immunity - I'm sure people would want to get to close to someone like that!) etc.

I'm just looking forward to getting home tonight and getting Episode 4 on - Really looking forward to it

Prof Irony: Is it me, or does the Android look like the girl in that still? Surely that's deliberate?

 

[Akyho]

Talking about did the android have a ghost? I think all the french lines fed to it are nothing. The only spark of possible ghost is when section 9 aim wepons them. She goes against her masters will and helps him be arrested.

Althou if you run into the three laws of robotics by Issac Asimov (currently reading the book were the inth law if created Robots and empires) Its assuming GITS universe runs like this.

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

If she had not acted. Marshall could have ran and be shot and or killed.
No matter what order Marshall was would give the second law would be broken and thus forth first law would be in acted.

The third law could have played a role in aswell.

Except this also jumps and flys in the face of maby she has somthing of a ghost due to the fact. She chose to save marshall because she was attached....except it could have been a pre programmed order even factory set.



About Marshal yes wanted his Jerry to be the perfect women which he focused on the one character from a old french film and fleshed her out to his whims from there.

What are the chances he could meet a girl even close to apeasing him. He has everything except that girl, so he makes her.

Except this isnt enough. He has crossed the line of acknowledging the true facade and instead has allowed himself to be consumed by the fantasy and relish it. The fantsay goes as far as he cant bear to see his "girl" in the arms of another man. This is easy enough done with a real person. Except how would you like to turn the corner to find your love acompanying another person except its just a somone that looks almost the same. It would bother most people.

In his case his girl is a mass produced android and has decided to take measure's to insure that his "girl" IS the only one.


A subject that will and has cropped up in GITS is perversion of technology. Not sexual perversion. Going beyond the normal social values. This case becoming attached to your technology due to the ability to customise. Customisation allows for such perversion to run rampant.

We all enjoy our computers. How many people here are actualy in love with it? Not id like to do thisngs do the disc drive. or any one touches it they will die. The time when your computer is out of date and keep it going no matter what or rundown and of no use. Will you shed a tear?

I am guessing the only tear shed would be the uses you have for it not it as somthing of signifance.

How ever? we do have things we become attached to for many reasons. Batou his car he will call her a she and probs have a personal name for it.
Togusa has his Mateba.

If you give somthing a character, You will give it a character you will like. Except it can turn into love.

 

[Just Passing Through]

Given that the Tachikomas are armed, and have no qualms about blowing big holes in villains when ordered to, I'd say it's pretty clear that Asimov's three laws haven't been applied across the board to AI in the Ghost in the Shell universe.

But the question of whether Jerry has a ghost or not is a compelling one. I do agree with Akyho's point that it may have been programming acting to protect her owner, rather than independent action.

But what it does serve is to be appropriate foreshadowing of one of the plot threads that does develop in the series as the episodes progress.

 

[shira]

Episode 4

Best episode yet. Definately.

So the Complex episodes have kick-started, and they couldn't have started in a better way. A good introduction to The Laughing Man case early on - and just simply amazing this episode. It's interesting too how the Detectives were implanted with Interceptors - It reminds me of an article I read last year about Prosecutors being given an internal ID Chip (consenting). It's really amazing stuff how similar this very real event is with the events shown in this episode.

Whenever I explore the Ghost in the Shell universe - I always get the distinct feeling 'it could be real' in the future. It's done so well. I just really want to get more of The Laughing Man arc done now - so roll on tommorow and episode 5!

I must say though, I found it hilarious that Togusa got a coffee from the toilet, lol.

 

[Jaymii]

Heh. Two mentions (or rather, a reference and a parody) of Asimov's robotics rules so far this week.

/is not taking part.

 

[Akyho]

I liked the episode as i had forgotten the main crux of the episode and so watched it. Enjoying it as a bit of a thriller they quickly find out people have interceptors and i go ok.....that was fast. Then laughing man is braught up and soon into the laughing man just screwing around.

Reminding me of the shock of just how nice the episode was in not being an episode. More so as one part of a larger story.

Anyone new to GITS this would sort of jar them alot. What with Brain hacking. My mind sort of breaks on trying to do that live censor witht he laughing mans icon if it was real.


Ps people. As of today....i have signed up to these forums for exactly 6 years now.....and its only been the last three days iv actualy visited cos of this.

 

[shira]

I'm glad this thread has inspired you to get posting Akyho!

I agree though - it's nice to see something that's part of a larger scale operation. This is what I love GitS for.

 

[HdE]

I must say though, I found it hilarious that Togusa got a coffee from the toilet, lol.

I noticed that too!

Mind you, I'm told that some washrooms in japan actually have such facilities in them. I've no idea if this is true or not.

 

[Hokum]

Just watched EP4, yes a good way of getting the plot going. I like the way the LM puts his logo over the faces of those he is talking through...

Anyone feel any correlation between the Laughing man and Anonymous?

 

[shira]

Just watched EP4, yes a good way of getting the plot going. I like the way the LM puts his logo over the faces of those he is talking through...

Anyone feel any correlation between the Laughing man and Anonymous?

I most certainly see similarities between the two. I really love the touch of putting his logo over their faces too.

I'm looking forward to watching the next ep in like an hour after I've got some food/drink

 

[Hokum]

I'm currently sat at work nibbling peanuts while rebuilding a PC for a user... I'll see if I can get on ep 5 tonight.

Its like a book club for anime

 

[shira]

I'm currently sat at work nibbling peanuts while rebuilding a PC for a user... I'll see if I can get on ep 5 tonight.

Its like a book club for anime

Ah haha Doesn't sound bad at all.

And yeah xD Lets just hope everyone else has kept up with the re-watch. I was expecting more discussion on Episode 4 than we actually got - but lets just hope people didn't have much to say, as opposed to having stopped watching!

 

[Hokum]

I think its a good idea, this, but an EP a day may be too much for people?

 

[shira]

I think its a good idea, this, but an EP a day may be too much for people?

Maybe so - It is just 20 minutes a day isn't much and most agreed it was reasonable.

Just seen episode 5 and it was awesome 8) I'll write up something more substantial later though.

 

[MaxonTreik]

I've been doing stuff for uni but I have watched up to episode 4.

 

[shira]

I think its a good idea, this, but an EP a day may be too much for people?

Maybe so - It is just 20 minutes a day isn't much and most agreed it was reasonable.

Just seen episode 5 and it was awesome 8) I'll write up something more substantial later though.

Don't worry, I'm going to bed, so I'll catch up in the early hours of the morning, I assume todays episode is 5 and tomorrows episode is 6 right?

Correct!

Awesome for the update Maxon

There was little to comment on in Ep 5 for me, bar the just general enjoyment of the episode. Some more background history on The Laughing Man case - and from my POV it was great to see Pazu using his (rumoured) Yakuza contacts to get some info 8)