Get in the Simulwatch - Neon Genesis Evangelion [End of Eva - 21/7]

I haven’t moved on to end yet, I’d like to be watching it around the same time as everyone else

Probably asked this before but who is planning to watch end at the same time? Next Saturday is on my shifts but I’ve been getting quite a few of them off. Is anyone watching the two last eps in the series before end?
 
Yeah, I hadn’t stopped to consider if anyone might not want to, but I was certainly intending to watch the tv ending before End.

And yeah, I had assumed we would include End as part of the thread, probably at some point over the weekend, although I’m open to suggestions on when. Could even just pencil it in as ‘watch this weekend, maybe avoid the thread until you’ve seen it’, if that’s easiest.
 
I've got next week off work, so might not watch straight away, but then watch Death (True)2 as a reminder of events (and see how it's changed from the Death part of Death and Rebirth) before hand.
 
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A little behind but here's my thoughts on episode 23 directors cut

I like the comparison that up close the angel (to begin with) is a double helix. The ultimate symbol of life from a scientific point of view. It is after all a representation of DNA. Then froma distance is halo. The ultimate representation of faith and religion. Before we look closely and can understand something all we have is faith to explain it. But only by learning and science can we really explain the world and its magic!

The rape and pregnancy of the EVA has already been noted but it was pretty strong that to save Shinji Rei essentially gave herself an abortion. And that she and the Eva went through a holy rebirth, with the eva morphing to look like rei with a halo, and the died. Rebirth and Death. A mirror of the films title that would follow!

The stark black and red (colours for death and blood) in the Reis destruction scene at the end was a very striking image!
 
might not watch straight away, but watch Death (True)2 as reminder (and see how it's changed from the Death part of Death and Rebirth) before hand.
I'm gonna try to take in Death & Rebirth as well. I was showing this to @~AyaMachi~ earlier on, but there are some cuts from the series that have been redrawn for Death(true)². Here's a significant one that follows on from one of @D1tchd1gger's earlier manga comparisons. It's Rei's smile in Episode 6:
Others off the top of my head are the preceding scene of Rei giving the mission schedule to Shinji in the NERV medical facility, and the tense Episode 5 talk with Misato after Shinji returns from his wander.

As for...
and see how it's changed from the Death part of Death and Rebirth
Death(true)² is in fact the "Death" part of D&R:
"Later, a second edit was made called Death(true)² which was part of the final release of the movies in Revival of Evangelion, a theatrical re-release of the movies on March 7th, 1998. This is also the version used in the home video releases."

Spoilers here, but there's also a number of differences between "Rebirth" and the equivalent part of The End of Evangelion:

Interesting facts ahoy. 🙂
 
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Death(true)² is in fact the "Death" part of D&R:
"Later, a second edit was made called Death(true)2 which was part of the final release of the movies in Revival of Evangelion, a theatrical re-release of the movies on March 7th, 1998. This is also the version used in the home video releases."
No, not at all confusing, is it! Gordon Bennett! 😅
 
Hang on is that 2 films or is the second one a quote from the link where the 2 hasn't been written as a square sign? (I'm not sure how to do that on my mobile keyboard, so that's why I wrote a 2).
Same film. Hold down on "2" on your keyboard. 😉👍
It's okay @D1tchd1gger Neil's a geek for this kind of stuff. He's had to show me where some of the signs and symbols are before now because I couldn't bleeding find them! 😜
 
Episode 24

Are you that scared of affection? If you don't get close to others, you won't be betrayed, and you won't hurt each other. However, neither will you forget what loneliness is. Man can never make loneliness disappear, because man is alone, but man can forget. So man can find the will to live.

This episode's as much of an enigma as Kaworu himself. I watched the original version of this episode this time around, which doesn't contain the infamously contradictory extra scene of Kaworu's discussion with SEELE that's found in the Director's Cut. But then... it's actually Kaworu's surprise at finding "Lilith" instead of Adam within Terminal Dogma that seems to contradict the content of the private discussion among SEELE members that we saw last episode:
The conversation amongst the members of SEELE regarding Gendo's treachery is very interesting here, too. Who is this "pawn" who "knows the facts" that they will "use against Ikari"?

This seems to be more consistent with the Director's Cut scene where those facts are discussed, and instead makes Kaworu's unawareness appear rather at odds with what had been suggested in Episode 23. 🤨

Incidentally, the actual term SEELE used to refer to Kaworu in the Japanese dialogue in the previous episode was "hitobashira". From Wikipedia:
"Hitobashira (人柱 human pillar), practiced formerly in Japan, is a human sacrifice, buried alive under or near large-scale buildings like dams, bridges, and castles, as a prayer to the gods".
Hitobashira - Wikipedia
Is anyone able to check what term the Netflix subs or dub use in that scene in episode 23? It's at 12mins 30secs on ADV's PAL DVD.
 
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Is anyone able to check what term the Netflix subs or dub use in that scene in episode 23? It's at 12mins 30secs on ADV's PAL DVD.
Is that the right episode/time stamp? I get Misato asking for people to find out if anyone is alive after the explosion.
Watched all the SEELE scenes on my DVD (Perfect Collection) and couldn't find it. One thing I did notice in the first SEELE scene is after Fuyutsuki calls and Ikari breaks off the meeting the subs say "Your seat will be waiting for you" however the old dub and the new sub and dub all say words to the effect of "assuming you're still in command". The manga has them directly issuing a warning to that effect, if Ikari continues with his own plans. So anyone who has only seen the old sub is very much getting the wrong impression of that line it seems!
I also noticed the EVA dumping ground. On the disc it looks like a morgue with the bodies laid out, but in the Netflix version (and manga) it's a trench with the bodies just thrown in randomly.
In the manga they call him Tabris:
Who is this "pawn" who "knows the facts" that they will "use against Ikari"?
Ignore this as I rewatched again (and again). It's Ikari who sent her, but I still think she's the best person to fit the description. Ritsuko? She's summoned straight after and fits the bill of someone who "knows the facts". And then destroys all the Reis, which would be "against Ikari" although also very much a personal vendetta as well.
 
Mother's Basement's recent video on Netflix did help me better appreciate some of the 'love or like' contention with that scene, not sure if I fully agree with his exact view or not but it certainly makes more sense than accusing Netflix of 'censoring' LGBT content as some people and articles are framing it as those overtones are certainly still there.

The revelations about Rei really make you think back to many of her early encounters with Shinji. Its enough to make Sigmund Froyd dpring back to life and demand an apology.
 
yet she ended up kind of becoming her anyway.
This is certainly echoed in the manga, whereby, in a fit of rage,
she does something terrible to Rei, and after trying to apologise and brush it off as a joke, she acknowledges that it was "exactly what she (Dr Akagi) did".

Ritsuko really does seem to hold a grudge against poor Rei 😢
 
Coming back to some things from earlier posts... 🙂

I wonder if Anno's apparent disinterest in developing Rei's personality might be part of the key to her popularity. Compared to the other main characters, she seems far more like a blank slate for people to project their own interpretations on to.
I do really like that interpretation. I think there's a lot of truth to that.

It brings something else to mind. I have a little book on my shelves called "Japanese Schoolgirl Confidential: How teenage girls made a nation cool". It's written by American journalist Brian Ashcraft and his Japanese wife, Shouko Ueda, and charts the iconic image of the sailor-suited high-school student in its myriad appearances in Japanese pop culture. There's a chapter on anime, and a boxout on Evangelion, focussing on Rei in particular. Here's an excerpt from it:
"When the mysterious Rei first appears in the series she's injured and her head and arms are bandaged. The image of the wounded eighth grader struck a chord with viewers — she was an incredibly sympathetic character in a country that was struggling after the economic bubble burst. Rei, more than any other character, captured the melancholy mood of the nineties and epitomized Japanese ideals of loyalty, honor, and dedication."

I found that insightful.

Lastly, we got an instrumental rendition of 'I Can't Be Yours' after Shinji gets back into the Eva. Not hugely significant, but I remember the vocal version is the track that plays during the intermission in Death and Rebirth, so I was a little surprised that it predated that.
If memory serves (and I think it does in this case), the vocal version of "If I Can't Be Yours" is actually used during the midpoint credits sequence of The End of Evangelion (between the two "episodes" that make up the film). The intermission music of D&R is an acoustic guitar version of "A Cruel Angel's Thesis", followed by the brassy musical selection that accompanies that TV drama that's heard in the background a few times in Misato's apartment. 🙂
Can't remember exactly which episodes of the series it appears in.

EDIT: It's in Episode 23, for example. 13mins 43secs in the original version, 14mins 50secs in the Director's Cut, as Pen Pen is watching TV.

Is that the right episode/time stamp? I get Misato asking for people to find out if anyone is alive after the explosion.
Ah, okay. Yeah, 12mins 30secs is the timestamp for the original version of Episode 23; for the Director's Cut it's at 13mins 35secs instead.

I do think you're right about Ritsuko being the person SEELE are talking about, because the vocal echo on the discussion sequence segues into the following scene with Ritsuko. That scene also has no real reason to be there unless SEELE are referring to her. It mirrors how their discussion of "the bell around [Gendo's] neck" cuts straight to Kaji. It was the bit about them using her against Gendo that I couldn't quite square because, like you say, SEELE only come into contact with Ritsuko because Gendo sent her to answer their questions in Rei's stead — unlike Kaworu, whom we know SEELE sent themselves. Maybe Episode 23's just as much of a mystery as Episode 24, then! 😅
(Reading the notes for the episode synopses on Evageeks, it becomes clear that the script is inconsistent in places, anyway, so...)

One thing I did notice in the first SEELE scene is after Fuyutsuki calls and Ikari breaks off the meeting the subs say "Your seat will be waiting for you" however the old dub and the new sub and dub all say words to the effect of "assuming you're still in command".
. . .
So anyone who has only seen the old sub is very much getting the wrong impression of that line it seems!
Yeah, that line's mistranslated in the original version's subtitles. The actual line in Japanese is:
"Sono toki, kimi no seki ga nokotte itara na."

I can only assume that the translator misheard the last part as something like:
"...nokotte'ru kara na."
That would turn it into a guarantee that Gendo's place will indeed remain.
 
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