General Politics Thread

I think its a lot of political knowledge this all happened in the 80s and 90s yet now MPs are bad. I don't get it the Thatcher givernemt was worse and people love her. Politics hasn't changed maybe that's the problem but ever since I known about I knew MPs can't decide anything and MPs dont do much. I cant see why now it's changed. Because a referendum on a big issue was made binary.
Also I will never define myself as Remain, would jump at voting it again but never define myself politically as it. Because Im not the Literals or Change UK, The EU is not the best thing ever. The problem was making EU membership binary.
I just think I love living in Wales as it gives me the chance to Vote Plaid Cymru before I ever have to vote Lib Dem.
 
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Time plays a part. The longer people feel ignored, marginalised and underrepresented the more resentment is going to set in. The policies and views of the parties change over time, that much is obvious (particularly when you look at old Labour, New Labour and Corbyn’s Labour) and when people don’t feel like any of the major parties are representing their values any more they’re going to get mad.

In the 80s, it was a pretty straight choice between the economic left and right and the social left and right. So even though a lot of people hated Thatcher they still felt they had a voice in the Labour Party, even if they never managed to win. These days, things aren’t so clear cut. There are people on the left and the right who agree on Brexit but not much else. There are people on the left and right who agree on immigration but not much else. We have a real mix of views now - There are economic conservatives who are social liberals (often wealthy urban areas of the South) and economic socialists who are social conservatives (a lot of poor urban areas of the North) and all the parties are struggling to adapt to that - the Lib Dems are appealing to the former by promising to ignore the stupid ignorant views of the latter and the Brexit Party is appealing to the latter by promising to fight the arrogance and elitism of the former. Neither of which is particularly good for society, I don’t think.
 
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I do blame the 80s how structurally the economic model was changed it shifted the entire political, social and economic systems of the country and allowed this mix to occur. The internet has also changed society allowing people to read all the different views. It is the parliamentary System is basically 400 years old at what we know so its to change dramatically. What we have seen with Labour and now the tories is because they shifted the people who were ignored for years got fed up and demanded change. I mean I always viewed Jeremys labour as an experiment why not something different I cant believe its last 4 and half years tbh, I mean in 2016 it was nearly over so I do view Labour will move more to the middle but I think be more economically liberal than new labour. While the Tories I think are full right wing and won't go back.
 
ayase said:
I think the fact people feel their votes don’t matter
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Someone told me that last time. The Tory won by 33 seats in his constituency!

I do wonder how much Brexit comes into peoples thoughts when voting. I see a lot of Brexiteers say punish those that voted against it in Parliament as it's against the "will of the people" (failing to recognise that MPs have to represent 100% of the population and not 26%) and especially those that are in constituencies that voted leave. But in the last election my MP (Labour) that voted AGAINST Article 50 and is in a city where leave won (although there's 2 and a bit parliamentary seats in my city, so hard to say what his actual constituents wanted) INCREASED his majority and that with UKIP not running! Also the Tory mentioned above was in the other full constituency in the city and is a Brexiteers (even though it would f*** this city, biggest employers being the Docks (more tariffs = less import/export = less jobs), the 2 Universities (less foreign students, less money coming in = less jobs and the NHS (less EU nationals coming in to be Drs and nurses = poorer service)) and like I said only won by the 33 votes.
 
D1tchd1gger said:
But in the last election my MP (Labour) that voted AGAINST Article 50 and is in a city where leave won (although there's 2 and a bit parliamentary seats in my city, so hard to say what his actual constituents wanted) INCREASED his majority and that with UKIP not running!
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And I think that’s where the real difficulty lies for individual MPs and the parties - What is most important to people? Those voters who elected him presumably thought Labour/the MP’s other values were more important than Brexit, but on a constituency by constituency basis, that’s going to differ. And that’s why Labour and the Tories have been tearing themselves apart recently.
 
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I do think peoples loyalty to Labour and Tories are stronger than some people make out. (Especially in these working class areas after the 80s) but we will see come December.
 
Labour candidate says they would celebrate the deaths of three leaders who ordered unjustified military attacks that killed thousands of civilians

“How dare they say such appalling things? Celebrating people’s deaths is dangerous and wrong!”

Jeremy Corbyn says he doesn’t celebrate the death of a leader who ordered unjustified military attacks that killed thousands of civilians

“Why won’t he celebrate the death of this evil man? What’s wrong with him?”

You can’t make this stuff up.
 
So what we've learned tonight is that people think being "Prime Ministerial" means being untrustworthy and out of touch with ordinary people, but personally likeable.

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Also how bloody difficult would it have been to say "Rather than seeking to divide people and being less than useless and potentially detrimental to my own side's campaign like David Cameron, as PM I'd remain neutral in any possible future referendum campaign and let the people of the country decide for themselves"? Bang, job done Jeremy, you wouldn't have looked exactly like the kind of stereotypical question dodging politician you're supposed to be trying to prove you're different from, you'd have reminded people what a crappy job Cameron did of the remain campaign and you'd get to keep sitting on the fence. ****'s sake. Is there an opening for Director of Communications?

These polls though.... We're seeing pretty much exactly the same numbers we were at this point in 2017. This might get interesting after all.
 
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People who rip into that more, Can’t you remember when he wrote in the guardian he was neutral. You can’t be neutral on the most important issue well more like the polarizing issue. Though both remainers and leavers are making me want to boycott if we ever get a second referendum. I just so hate Jo Swinson I find her worse than Boris I never thought I could dislike a politician more like her using her gender to get places really pisses me off she is the definition of metropolitan elite and the whole problem with the early 21st century politicians no wonder they are doing well in London.
 
I don’t know how people seem to see Corbyn as personally likeable and Johnson and policially likeable. I might have to watch the debate myself

it really should be a bit more the other way I’d think, at least a little. Boris brings up brexit all the time, such a divisive thing should already make him less liked as a politician, while corbyn always seems to come up with some policy or another and doesn’t talk about brexit as much (though half those policies can be questioned wether they are workable for anyone on a low income)
But, I’ve seen quite a few things where corbyn just stammers through his answers, like news programs and morning shows, he never really gives a good answer. There’s also plenty only accusing him of being anti Semitic himself and supporting a few strongly communist figures. Communism isn’t very popular in this country, it wouldn’t work, but that’s mostly from the company he keeps

meanwhile, I’ve seen a clip where a media circus turns up to Johnson’s house, he says he doesn’t want to answer anything, while offering all of them a cuppa. Can’t think of a more english and polite way to refuse an answer.

johnson alsohas this:
Protoplasmic invertebrate jellies... how can you not like a guy who pretty much has a catchphrase by now?
Does corbyn have a catchphrase? I thought so...

if you’re liked for your job though, it probably means that others think you’re doing a good job, that has nothing to do with being liked as a person, being liked as a person doesn’t effect your job
 
Captaaainuniverse said:
Does corbyn have a catchphrase?
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"For the many, not the few" I believe, which you'd have thought would be more popular in a country with the highest wealth inequality in Europe, but I guess it's not as popular as "Get Brexit done, also Corbyn's a racist and a terrorist sympathiser despite spending his entire political career campaigning against racism and violence". I can understand Boris and the Tories' appeal, totally. To the very wealthy (and supporters of the current Israeli government) who are pretty much the only people who stand to benefit from his government and lose out if Labour win. I can't for the life of me understand their appeal to anyone else, and unfortunately have to presume the vast majority of Britons are just not particularly well informed and are quick to believe whatever they read in the biased papers owned by wealthy Tory supporters. What do people on average or low incomes actually believe the Tories will do in the next parliament that will benefit them? Because I'd be willing to bet that the answer, based on their record over the last nine years, is nothing.

It's kind of telling that the entire Tory election strategy seems to be "Look at what a bad man Corbyn is" instead of "Look at what positive things the Tories will do for you" because as far as I can tell, they have nothing to offer.
 
Yeah I'm 100% voting Labour on Thursday. All these polls so far had better be wrong and I'm hoping the youth turn out to vote like never before and vote for JC.
 
Vashdaman said:
Yeah I'm 100% voting Labour on Thursday. All these polls so far had better be wrong and I'm hoping the youth turn out to vote like never before and vote for JC.
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Nationwide polls in a system where candidates are elected locally in a FPTP system are pretty much useless anyway. If you don't win a particular seat, none of the votes for you in that constituency matter. After the last few terribly wrong predictions (Easy Remain victory, effortless Hilary Clinton victory, massive majority for Theresa May) I don't even know why they bother any more. I put no stock in the polls whatsoever.
 
I've never voted before but I've registered and intend to tomorrow. I've never voted because the key parties have always been headed by slimey scum. It was always right wing vs secretly right wing.

This recent battle though, I've never seen so much concerted underhanded effort to spread propaganda. Newspapers spreading imaginary horror stories on front pages rather than important real world events, clear bias across all media, party funded fake news drives. As someone disabled who knows other disabled people I've personally witnessed a lot of suffering from the welfare reforms and known a couple of suicides that are a result of the increased pressure; I even came close myself but as non-working scum that doesn't matter because I have no societal value.

Of course there is a chance Corbyn could be the antichrist and they're trying desperately to warn us :p.
 
It's ok @serpantino they've thought working scum have no societal value either. They'll promise things then forget that the people they promised those things to exist, it's not just people who depend on benefits, though they do see pressure when things go wrong
 
@Captaaainuniverse yeah I've noticed the whole work pays slogan falls flat when you realise they really haven't done much at all to help low incomes etc. My partner applied for universal credit because her maternity has run out and the amount given doesn't even cover her car which she will rely on to get a job as we live quite remotely. People are worse off than us but I'm still effectively managing 3 people on almost the same amount I'd get when single and I'm one of those dumb gits that impulse spends when depressed.

My mum also works despite being disabled yet she is penalised regularly because they want her to search for jobs with longer hours despite her struggling already.

They haven't made work pay at all, they've just made not working pay less.
 
Personally I do think a Universal Basic income that the Greens propose is worth a try. Heck, just bringing an end to places as miserable as Jobcentres is worth it in and of itself!

Though sadly, there'a a certain unrelated 'bigger picture' philosophical disagreement on a certain issue. A pity really.
 
Mr L said:
Personally I do think a Universal Basic income that the Greens propose is worth a try. Heck, just bringing an end to places as miserable as Jobcentres is worth it in and of itself!
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It's likely that UBI would actually save money on all the administration costs associated with assessing benefits, but for whatever reason it seems like the majority of people don't like the idea of other people getting something for nothing... Even if they themselves are receiving it as well. Kinda like how a not insignificant number of poor people seem to want the wealthy to be taxed less at their expense (going by these Tory poll numbers anyway). People are weird.
 
Voted to take us back to the evil 70s when my mum got a job at 18 worked for 43 years and now is one of “wealthy” pensioners who were screwed over. I’ve hated the coverage of the WASPI women as it painted my mother as really well off, she’s fine but she worked her entire life to get there to be screwed over.
 
I don't know if I'd risk the blackouts though! Don't get me wrong, I'm all for nationalising the trains, an industry that's inherently anti-competitiv,e but I'm not convinced about utilities, especially power. Broadband? I'm really not sure. Would have need to look into if its worked out well elsewhere.
 
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