Final Fantasy Party
- Thread starter Nemphtis
- Start date
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Chrono Demon said:
Why thank you Chrono! =D
Man thıs debate looks really juıcy, I'll probably be revıvıng thıs topıc when I get back to England and actually have the tıme to read through all the replıes and post my responses. Whıle skımmıng through some of ıt I dıd want to make a few quıck pot-shots before I go get some beer:
CıtızenGeek saıd:
"You seem to really dislike Square Enix, so I don't think much of your argument is based on logic, merely on some unexplained disdain."
I personally feel the opposıte applıes to you, who knows maybe I'm wrong but you seem to me lıke someone who lıkes Square Enıx too much to the poınt where your argument ıs not based on logıc but merely some unexplaıned love. You see - ıt works both ways.
KupoArtist saıd:
"I think it's more of a problem that this crap is selling whilst people could be looking for better, more original games. Playing any of the number of better shooters than DOC rather than wasting their time on it because it 'advances' a story already violated by the world's most substanceless movie sequel and a legion of other mediocre titles."
After readıng your responses I can safely say that you and me are pretty much on the same page wıth the matter ın hand. It would be ıgnorant of me to say 'thıs guy knows what he's talkıng about' but I wıll say that thıs fellow ıs far more agreeable from where I stand.
CıtızenGeek saıd:
"You seem to really dislike Square Enix, so I don't think much of your argument is based on logic, merely on some unexplained disdain."
I personally feel the opposıte applıes to you, who knows maybe I'm wrong but you seem to me lıke someone who lıkes Square Enıx too much to the poınt where your argument ıs not based on logıc but merely some unexplaıned love. You see - ıt works both ways.
KupoArtist saıd:
"I think it's more of a problem that this crap is selling whilst people could be looking for better, more original games. Playing any of the number of better shooters than DOC rather than wasting their time on it because it 'advances' a story already violated by the world's most substanceless movie sequel and a legion of other mediocre titles."
After readıng your responses I can safely say that you and me are pretty much on the same page wıth the matter ın hand. It would be ıgnorant of me to say 'thıs guy knows what he's talkıng about' but I wıll say that thıs fellow ıs far more agreeable from where I stand.
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Nemphtis said:
If you want to think that, fair enough.
I will say that it's a little ridiculous to say that my arguments haven't been based on logic, though - they've been based on nothing but. Other people have said that Square Enix are losing focus on their big games because of the spin-offs, but this is obviously false and makes no logical sense whatsoever
Square Enıx aren't losıng focus on theır bıg names, the reason why gamers such as myself are upset ıs sımply because of the fact that we would rather see a new IP rather than play another Fınal Fantasy spın-off as we waıt for the next maın sequel. I'm excıted about the next Fınal Fantasy or the next Dragon Quest but ın the mean tıme why don't they thınk of some new orıgınal games? I have the answer already of course - they don't want to take the rısk. It costs an awful lot of money to make a vıdeo game ın thıs age, and developers are becomıng less lıkely each day to take bıg rısks because a sıngle faılure could mean they lack the profıt to develop any other games ın the future, crushıng the studıo because of one mıstake. Thıs does not apply to Square however because they have establıshed franchıses such as Fınal Fantasy already, so I thınk they can easıly take a few rısks that other studıos can only dream of takıng. Square used to take rısks - Kıngdom Hearts was a rısk whıch paıd off, others lıke Musashı Samuraı Legend dıdn't do so well.
I doubt the people who developed Katamarı Damacy were thınkıng 'Wow you get to roll thıngs up wıth a ball - thıs game's goıng to be a HUGE hıt!' no I'm sure ıt was a rısk and luckıly for the developer and the publısher the rısk paıd off well ın the end. When ıt comes to vıdeo game development ıt's all about rısk, and the more expensıve ıt becomes to create a vıdeo game the less wıllıng anyone wıll be to take such rısks. Do I hate Square? Nope, they used to be my favourıte developer ıf I do say so myself. No matter how much I lıke somethıng I know when ıt's tıme to start criticising what ıt's doıng, and I haven't been happy wıth Square lately for varıous reasons, thıs beıng one of them.
I doubt the people who developed Katamarı Damacy were thınkıng 'Wow you get to roll thıngs up wıth a ball - thıs game's goıng to be a HUGE hıt!' no I'm sure ıt was a rısk and luckıly for the developer and the publısher the rısk paıd off well ın the end. When ıt comes to vıdeo game development ıt's all about rısk, and the more expensıve ıt becomes to create a vıdeo game the less wıllıng anyone wıll be to take such rısks. Do I hate Square? Nope, they used to be my favourıte developer ıf I do say so myself. No matter how much I lıke somethıng I know when ıt's tıme to start criticising what ıt's doıng, and I haven't been happy wıth Square lately for varıous reasons, thıs beıng one of them.
To further my debate and to put across my poınt of how many spın-offs Square Enıx are shıttıng out lately I would lıke to quote thıs Kotaku artıcle whıch even has a handy lıttle graph showıng ıt all.
Source: www.Kotaku.com
Boy, Square Enix sure likes makin' them Final Fantasy games. But, creating totally original ones is so hard! With fans snapping up whatever has the Good Housing Final Fantasy Seal of Approval, no wonder Square Enix keeps churning out remakes, spin-offs and ports. Easy money! After seeing yet another "Are FF spin-offs bad?" thread on a form, reader Sandy made the above table that compares main series FF games to spin-offs, remakes and ports. Data is based off Japanese releases and was gleened from the Wikipedia. On the chart, black represents the main series, green for remake/ports and red is for spin-offs. Sandy continues:
So, do tell, what does all this mean, Sandy?
Stuff we know, but reassuring to see it in handy chart form. So, let's backtrack: are spin-offs/remakes/ports/etc. bad? If you love Final Fantasy, no. If you're a fan of originality, it appears so.
Source: www.Kotaku.com
I made that graph and sent it to Kotaku. I posted it on the previous page. Got absolutely grilled for it too. There's a lot more spin-off fans than I thought and they assumed by submitting the graph, I was waging war on them, when in reality I did it when I was bored because I thought it would be interesting.
'My arguements are based on nothing but logic. Because X isn't the case... because ... isn't it obvious that it's wrong?'CitizenGeek said:I will say that it's a little ridiculous to say that my arguments haven't been based on logic, though - they've been based on nothing but. Other people have said that Square Enix are losing focus on their big games because of the spin-offs, but this is obviously false and makes no logical sense whatsoever
No, it isn't.
edit: to be fair to the opposite side of the arguement, the graph does lump every kind of 'spin-off' into one category. There probably needs to be a distinction between Main Series franchise spin-offs, and the others. Even if that distinction is between 'games that violate existing Final Fantasy stories' and 'games that have Final Fantasy in their title because they will sell better that way'.
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
And, of course, your argument is perfectly logical isn't it? Because when you more or less said that Square Enix delayed FFXII because it wanted to focus on spin-offs, that made sense, didn't it? When you said that it wasn't the leap to next generation that would make FFXIII take a long time to be developed, but it was the focus on spin-offs and remakes, that was really logical wasn't it?
Please, kupoartist, stop with the stupid attempts to "translate" what I say into something that makes you seem superior - because while other people have made good points against Square Enix, you most certainly have not and I grow bored with your futile attempts at undermining Square Enix, k?
Nemphtis said:
As for original IP, you have Last Remnant and It's A Wonderful World. Even if Square weren't making remakes and spin-offs, they wouldn't be making any more original IPs. Last year, you has Radiata Stories and Code Age is still on the way. There's plenty of originally titled games from Square Enix.
So why get rid of these spin-offs that I, and obviously (judging from the reaction of the people on Kotaku) want?
But ... no one is denying that Square Enix are making lots of remakes and spin-offs.
This is the thing, Square did take risks in the past. They took a huge risk on the Spirits Within film, and that completely bankrupted Square Pictures, lost them Sakaguchi and meant they had to merge with Enix. When you get that badly burnt by a risk, then it would be understandable if that company never took another risk again! But, Square have still continued to take risks - Drakengard, making FFIII for DS even when DS's future was in doubt, Last Remnant, It's A Wondeful World, Radiate Stories and re-imagining Final Fantasy for FFXII. These are all sizable risks, and Square took them. I think people are very unfair to Square Enix sometimes.
btw: Kingdom Hearts wasn't really a risk. Disney characters and Final Fantasy characters? It was pretty much a guaranteed success, really.
O_O
Okay, I ain't going to top those Arguements. But I have been thinking about FF7 : AC, and the mistake they took (I am seriously gonna get killed by some people on MSN if they read this)
But FF7 : AC was a mistake to be a film. I think it would suit it a whole better as a Series. And here is my reason
1. All the characters like Red, Cait Sith and others were just thrown in there for fandom reasons, without any actual involvement in them. As a series, I would love to see involvement like what they actually did in their own time and a extended part of their arrival, with actual plot development.
2. The plot was seriously rushed. I did like the plot, but I wish it was improved on.
3. Errm, More Cloud, Reno and Vincent... Yay?
Okay, I ain't going to top those Arguements. But I have been thinking about FF7 : AC, and the mistake they took (I am seriously gonna get killed by some people on MSN if they read this)
But FF7 : AC was a mistake to be a film. I think it would suit it a whole better as a Series. And here is my reason
1. All the characters like Red, Cait Sith and others were just thrown in there for fandom reasons, without any actual involvement in them. As a series, I would love to see involvement like what they actually did in their own time and a extended part of their arrival, with actual plot development.
2. The plot was seriously rushed. I did like the plot, but I wish it was improved on.
3. Errm, More Cloud, Reno and Vincent... Yay?
Wipe the arrogance of your lips, re-read the thread and tell me where I even said that. Or do you have everyone on ignore?CitizenGeek said:
You want me to stop 'translating' your posts into plain english? Start reading the thread and engage in a discussion with the people in it instead of declaring Quote Defcon 1. You're not a public information terminal, and you're not Paladin Cecil defeating the evil unbelievers of the church of squenix.
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
kupoartist said:
I do hope you are not being serious when you say that? Because, if you are, it's hilarious that you can tell me I'm being arrogant, after the way you've behaved
There doesn't appear to be an "ignore" tool on this site, but if there was, you'd be the first addition to my one. As it stands, I think I'll just ignore you anyway!