Do you believe in (a)God? If not, whats your reason?

[Kurogane]

But if you take a look at the big picture, the only thing you have at the end of the day is your faith, and thats worth its weight in faeces considering the time you've spent following the religion.

Hmm, surely only the person who has faith can judge how much it's worth to them?[/quote]

Well to say something remains so valuable to you after such hardships is retarded; your spouse in this case, the death of hundreds of people etc - faith means that much to the individual, considering faith doesn't really exist.

 

[Chaz]

Chaz wrote:
Free will allows you to decide yourself what is morally right/wrong. That's how I think you should feel like, so you don't have to bow to certain laws given by that "almighty" God.

Yes, but free will also allows you to really mess up. I guess having absolute answers would be quite comforting for many people.

I guess it can be a fortification on someone's worries. Although I wouldn't like to be given an absolute answer that wasn't true. To mess up is to learn from and improve oneself.
If you cover for something, even if it's to generally help them, it still leaves them vulnerable to the problem when it comes round again.

Well to say something remains so valuable to you after such hardships is retarded; your spouse in this case, the death of hundreds of people etc - faith means that much to the individual, considering faith doesn't really exist.

At the most rediculous way of explaining this, just watch your typical Hollywood blockbuster or Shonen anime. The good guy always seems to have a big 'adrenalyn' rush at the end because of what he's doing is right. Like Ichigo's "Resolve" speech, then somehow kicking Renji's ass.

Think of that visual aid, and then relate to the real world. Faith, something that you spent your life believing in, is a waste? It's the hardships that you face that make faith worth living for. It's the basis of your thought patterns, it's the thing that give you the drive to act on what you want to act on.
You yourself have the faith in saying that faith itself is only worth so much. You believe that it only has a numeric value, and that in itself is your faith. Will you throw that way? Can you, or will you be able to change it? I believe the latter is true and is common, but not the first question.
To truely give up faith would be a broken person, with a mind blank as pages of a new book.

 

[Kurogane]

Chaz wrote:
Free will allows you to decide yourself what is morally right/wrong. That's how I think you should feel like, so you don't have to bow to certain laws given by that "almighty" God.

Yes, but free will also allows you to really mess up. I guess having absolute answers would be quite comforting for many people.

I guess it can be a fortification on someone's worries. Although I wouldn't like to be given an absolute answer that wasn't true. To mess up is to learn from and improve oneself.
If you cover for something, even if it's to generally help them, it still leaves them vulnerable to the problem when it comes round again.

Well to say something remains so valuable to you after such hardships is retarded; your spouse in this case, the death of hundreds of people etc - faith means that much to the individual, considering faith doesn't really exist.

At the most rediculous way of explaining this, just watch your typical Hollywood blockbuster or Shonen anime. The good guy always seems to have a big 'adrenalyn' rush at the end because of what he's doing is right. Like Ichigo's "Resolve" speech, then somehow kicking Renji's ass.

Think of that visual aid, and then relate to the real world. Faith, something that you spent your life believing in, is a waste? It's the hardships that you face that make faith worth living for. It's the basis of your thought patterns, it's the thing that give you the drive to act on what you want to act on.
You yourself have the faith in saying that faith itself is only worth so much. You believe that it only has a numeric value, and that in itself is your faith. Will you throw that way? Can you, or will you be able to change it? I believe the latter is true and is common, but not the first question.
To truely give up faith would be a broken person, with a mind blank as pages of a new book.

Despite what it came out as, I wasn't revoking the entire concept of faith, just in terms of its connection with religion.

 

[Chaz]

Despite what it came out as, I wasn't revoking the entire concept of faith, just in terms of its connection with religion.

Unfortunately, I don't think (personally) you can do that. You may be able to sub-catergoriese it; Faith in yourself; religion; others. But that faith is a whole thing.
I do understand what you mean though. But one of the major reasons of conflict is religion. To reject faith in it so easily, knowing the fact that there are "bad" people in the world and horrific events happen, is giving up.

I guessing for most athiest dont believe because they chose to by their own will. To give up when you are 'tested' by catastophy is the catastophy willing you away from religion. For something that would be important to me, I'd not give up my faith, but it would hurt. Pain goes away, but giving up on something is usually forever.

I'm sorry if it's like I'm picking on just you Hyaku. *Bows* It just seems like an intresting arguement.

 

[Kurogane]

Despite what it came out as, I wasn't revoking the entire concept of faith, just in terms of its connection with religion.

Unfortunately, I don't think (personally) you can do that. You may be able to sub-catergoriese it; Faith in yourself; religion; others. But that faith is a whole thing.
I do understand what you mean though. But one of the major reasons of conflict is religion. To reject faith in it so easily, knowing the fact that there are "bad" people in the world and horrific events happen, is giving up.

I guessing for most athiest dont believe because they chose to by their own will. To give up when you are 'tested' by catastophy is the catastophy willing you away from religion. For something that would be important to me, I'd not give up my faith, but it would hurt. Pain goes away, but giving up on something is usually forever.

I'm sorry if it's like I'm picking on just you Hyaku. *Bows* It just seems like an intresting arguement.

Nah, I just let everything slide right over me

And to be honest before I made this topic, I knew it was gonna get ugly at some point

Some very profound words from you there though sir 8)

 

[Ramadahl]

But if you take a look at the big picture, the only thing you have at the end of the day is your faith, and thats worth its weight in faeces considering the time you've spent following the religion.

Hmm, surely only the person who has faith can judge how much it's worth to them?

Well to say something remains so valuable to you after such hardships is retarded; your spouse in this case, the death of hundreds of people etc - faith means that much to the individual, considering faith doesn't really exist.

Hmm, not 100% sure what you were trying to write there, but I'll try to reply.
Faith doesn't exist? Faith exists as much as hopes and dreams. It may never have a quantifiable value, but the effects can be seen in everyday life. And it is often in times of hardship that things like that are of the most importance to people.

I guess it can be a fortification on someone's worries. Although I wouldn't like to be given an absolute answer that wasn't true.

I guess that's where the faith part comes in - believing that it is true.

To mess up is to learn from and improve oneself.

Assuming you're still in a position to improve afterwards .
But yes, personally I agree with you - I'd rather learn from my mistakes and find my own route.

Despite what it came out as, I wasn't revoking the entire concept of faith, just in terms of its connection with religion.

Hmm, is there really any intrinsic difference in the faith in everyday life and religious faith? Or have I misunderstood you again? ^^;

 

[Kurogane]

But if you take a look at the big picture, the only thing you have at the end of the day is your faith, and thats worth its weight in faeces considering the time you've spent following the religion.

Hmm, surely only the person who has faith can judge how much it's worth to them?

Well to say something remains so valuable to you after such hardships is retarded; your spouse in this case, the death of hundreds of people etc - faith means that much to the individual, considering faith doesn't really exist.

Hmm, not 100% sure what you were trying to write there, but I'll try to reply.
Faith doesn't exist? Faith exists as much as hopes and dreams. It may never have a quantifiable value, but the effects can be seen in everyday life. And it is often in times of hardship that things like that are of the most importance to people.

I guess it can be a fortification on someone's worries. Although I wouldn't like to be given an absolute answer that wasn't true.

I guess that's where the faith part comes in - believing that it is true.

To mess up is to learn from and improve oneself.

Assuming you're still in a position to improve afterwards .
But yes, personally I agree with you - I'd rather learn from my mistakes and find my own route.

Despite what it came out as, I wasn't revoking the entire concept of faith, just in terms of its connection with religion.

Hmm, is there really any intrinsic difference in the faith in everyday life and religious faith? Or have I misunderstood you again? ^^;

Of course there is, having faith in your religion, which more the point would be your God, is completely different from having say, faith in your other half?

 

[Lupus]

Dreams exist, but to what extent to what you wish could happen? If so, that's all Faith will ever be, false hope of God.

 

[Ramadahl]

Of course there is, having faith in your religion, which more the point would be your God, is completely different from having say, faith in your other half?

Um, completely different in what way, would you say? Maybe I'm just being dense (I'm far from the smartest guy in the world), but I guess from my point of view the example you've given is just a case of believing in different things.

Dreams exist, but to what extent to what you wish could happen? If so, that's all Faith will ever be, false hope of God.

Unless God does exist, of course .

 

[Kurogane]

Of course there is, having faith in your religion, which more the point would be your God, is completely different from having say, faith in your other half?

Um, completely different in what way, would you say? Maybe I'm just being dense (I'm far from the smartest guy in the world), but I guess from my point of view the example you've given is just a case of believing in different things.

Dreams exist, but to what extent to what you wish could happen? If so, that's all Faith will ever be, false hope of God.

Unless God does exist, of course .

Sorry, what I meant was; having faith in your religion, or God more specifically, is a lot different from having faith in your spouse, for example.

 

[kupocake]

Not a believer. I'm open to the possibility, but considering that thousands of years of organised religions have largely been the basis for persecution of groups and the maintenance of hegemony, God's lack of intervention indicates either that he doesn't exist, or that he's one apathetic son of a bitch who couldn't care less that we're all fighting and dying amongst ourselves. And the respective deities of the world's religions have never been too hot on pulling the many areas of the earth all together. Why does each religion start off in a single area, rather than in several areas at once? How freaking lazy does Omnipresence make you?

That to me is why it's erroneous to say 'God is a crutch for the weak'. That's simply not true: it takes something quite impressive to believe that there's a lazy, malevolent being out there who needs to be worshiped in order that you can make it into his exclusive member's club. Perhaps it's stupidity, perhaps it's miraculous blind faith... it's not my place to judge (unlike your average Christian commentator of course, who has a monopoly on morals and knows the names of everyone on Satan's list and the true intention of God).

Also another thing that bugs me: the logistics of heaven. Some people go to heaven for what they do in their lifetime, some people go to hell for what they do in their lifetime. It stands to reason that people you love will go a separate way to you: how are you supposed to be happy in heaven when certain people who've lived their life with you are in hell? Does god pull the wool over your eyes and make it seem that everyone you ever loved is there? Is Heaven so wonderful that your basic sense of compassion is destroyed, and you're forced into selfish introspection? Or does the average Christian just delight in seeing other people punished that much?

 

[Kurogane]

Not a believer. I'm open to the possibility, but considering that thousands of years of organised religions have largely been the basis for persecution of groups and the maintenance of hegemony, God's lack of intervention indicates either that he doesn't exist, or that he's one apathetic son of a bitch who couldn't care less that we're all fighting and dying amongst ourselves. And the respective deities of the world's religions have never been too hot on pulling the many areas of the earth all together. Why does each religion start off in a single area, rather than in several areas at once? How freaking lazy does Omnipresence make you?

That to me is why it's erroneous to say 'God is a crutch for the weak'. That's simply not true: it takes something quite impressive to believe that there's a lazy, malevolent being out there who needs to be worshiped in order that you can make it into his exclusive member's club. Perhaps it's stupidity, perhaps it's miraculous blind faith... it's not my place to judge (unlike your average Christian commentator of course, who has a monopoly on morals and knows the names of everyone on Satan's list and the true intention of God).

Also another thing that bugs me: the logistics of heaven. Some people go to heaven for what they do in their lifetime, some people go to hell for what they do in their lifetime. It stands to reason that people you love will go a separate way to you: how are you supposed to be happy in heaven when certain people who've lived their life with you are in hell? Does god pull the wool over your eyes and make it seem that everyone you ever loved is there? Is Heaven so wonderful that your basic sense of compassion is destroyed, and you're forced into selfish introspection? Or does the average Christian just delight in seeing other people punished that much?

Christians look away! This man will athiese you! :twisted:

Very good argument there though

 

[Tessai]

don't believe.
one (of many) reasons: Evolution. as far as the bibles concerned, dinosaurs didnt exist

 

[Kurogane]

don't believe.
one (of many) reasons: Evolution. as far as the bibles concerned, dinosaurs didnt exist

I'm reminded of a particular Ned Flanders quote:

'He looks just like a caveman! - If they existed of course, which they didn't!'

Those wacky Christians
:wink:

 

[Ramadahl]

Sorry, what I meant was; having faith in your religion, or God more specifically, is a lot different from having faith in your spouse, for example.

Um, I know you've stated this a few times, but maybe I missed your explanation of why the two are so different? Sorry if I'm being dense here ^^;
Granted, the practical element in each case will be different, but to me that just seems like a different expression of the same intrinsic faith in "something". If faith is just something we hold true, something we believe, then the two don't sound so different.

Also another thing that bugs me: the logistics of heaven. Some people go to heaven for what they do in their lifetime, some people go to hell for what they do in their lifetime. It stands to reason that people you love will go a separate way to you: how are you supposed to be happy in heaven when certain people who've lived their life with you are in hell? Does god pull the wool over your eyes and make it seem that everyone you ever loved is there? Is Heaven so wonderful that your basic sense of compassion is destroyed, and you're forced into selfish introspection? Or does the average Christian just delight in seeing other people punished that much?

Haha, I thought along similar lines to this, and decided that heaven didn't sound like much fun to me. Of course, if they should actually exist I'd end up in hell anyway, making it a somewhat moot point as far as I would be concerned .

don't believe.
one (of many) reasons: Evolution. as far as the bibles concerned, dinosaurs didnt exist

All major churches recognize evolution - I think the Pope officially recognized it a few years ago now. As a rule, the church learned not to go against science after the whole Galileo debacle.
About the only christians who still deny evolution are the fanatics in the USA, I think... (not that all christians in the US are fanatical - just a minority of them).

 

[McIcy]

Church, aka gods piggybank, they will believe whatever is the most profitable for them

 

[Ramadahl]

Church, aka gods piggybank, they will believe whatever is the most profitable for them

Well, just a recent example, they haven't backed down on gay marriages yet, which is hardly the most "profitable" action.

 

[Chris]

Is it still thought to be "cool" to rip the piss out of Christianity?!? I'm sick of the elitist attitudes of people who claim to be "atheists".
Let people believe what they want to.
Theres no 100% proof that Jesus existed or not, and no 100% proof that evolution happened the way it did or didn't.

When you stare death in the face I doubt there's anyone who doesn't ask for some kind of "devine intervention". If you say you wouldn't your a liar.

 

[Lupus]

When you stare death in the face I doubt there's anyone who doesn't ask for some kind of "devine intervention". If you say you wouldn't your a liar.

Everyone will, eventually, unless you don't have time to. I've wondered what's beyond death, be it heaven or not, the obvious answer is that the answer itself is inconclusive. ;/

 

[Martin]

Faith in God is quite possibly just a way of accepting things you don't understand but while I believe in things such as the theory of evolution, the most profound of questions are too much for me to get my head around. Because of this I think 'divine intervention' or 'God's will' is a good an explanation as any.

I'm not a believer of the idea of organised religion though - faith in something or someone spiritual isn't a bad thing but just look at the crusades and today's problems with terrorism. Organised religion (which probably boils down to political parties hiding behind a religious doctrine to keep the people under their control) is to blame, not the fact that the people believe in something metaphysical.