anti-paedophile demonstrations and protests

[CitizenGeek]

It is not desire that makes one wrong. It's acting on those desires. What separates a killer from a 'normal' person is the willpower required to act, and what makes someone with a fetish into a sex offender is a lack of caring for others or a lack of intelligence.

That desire is "wrong" though in that it's unhealthy and allowing it go unchecked could lead to the sexual abuse of children. I know this is an anime forum and everyone is very forgiving of paedophilia, but would you really feel comfortable letting your future children be in the care of a paedophile even if he has never committed a crime? I don't think so. There's always that risk and it should be eliminated as far as is possible with treatment.

There are many people turned on by children, which the loli craze in anime highlights. In Japan in particular, youth is valued. However, none of them are criminals unless they act on their desires, and they remain 'good citizens'.

I don't know that those who consume animated child pornography fit any description of a model citizen, even in Japan.

The line between good and evil in our society is decided based on a random number which differs from country to country. Go on the wrong side of that number and you're evil. That's how simple-minded people are.

So how do you suggest we protect minors from predators, then? Doing away with age of consent laws hardly seems productive to me ...

 

[fabio de lunatico]

I know this is an anime forum and everyone is very forgiving of paedophilia

I'm not entirely sure what you're implying with this comment but I can't help but think it wasn't necessary.

 

[Kirrimir]

I know this is an anime forum and everyone is very forgiving of paedophilia

I'm not entirely sure what you're implying with this comment but I can't help but think it wasn't necessary.

Oh the stereotypes, It's a shame us Anime fans have one that is like this.

 

[ayase]

...would you really feel comfortable letting your future children be in the care of a paedophile even if he has never committed a crime?

Except... you wouldn't know they were a paedophile unless they had commited a crime, been prosecuted for it and added to an internet 'name-and-shame' site. So by that logic... anyone could be a paedophile! Let's not run the risk and never let our children near any other adults ever again! Report any suspicious behaviour! Presume guilty until proven innocent!

True story which will no doubt amuse Aion no end - When it snowed the other day I went out taking photographs, and one of the locations I took pictures of was a formal garden not far from my house. In the garden at the time were a group of adults with one child, no older than ten. He happened to notice me taking photographs and, yes, guess what his rapid-fire accusation levelled at me was. One of the adults with him quickly admonished him for this, but all the same I can't help but wonder if the moral panic surrounding paedophilia is actually destroying the innocence of far more children than would otherwise be affected.

How should we protect minors from predators? Well, how do we protect non-minors from sexual predators? We don't. The law intervenes when and where a crime is commited, not before (as it should in a free society). We just presume for the mean time that most people aren't rapists, just as we should have the common sense to presume that most people aren't paedophiles either.

 

[CitizenGeek]

I know this is an anime forum and everyone is very forgiving of paedophilia

I'm not entirely sure what you're implying with this comment but I can't help but think it wasn't necessary.

Anyone who's spent any time at all on an anime forum knows that sexualised images of minors are taken for granted as permissible. Moé is basically all about pushing the sexualisation of children as far as possible without it becoming pornographic. "Lolicon" isn't regarded with disgust on most anime forums, or by most anime fans, even though it's animated child pornography and would illicit strong reactions of disgust from almost everyone else. Even this thread proves my point! Spyro/Chun Li is talking about how sorry he feels for the person who's just raped a child, seemingly sparing no sympathy for the child who's life is now in ruins and will be for the future. Aion is complaining about age of consent laws. Would this kind of rhetoric be acceptable anywhere but on a forum full of anime fans? I don't think so ....

 

[fabio de lunatico]

...would you really feel comfortable letting your future children be in the care of a paedophile even if he has never committed a crime?

Except... you wouldn't know they were a paedophile unless they had commited a crime, been prosecuted for it and added to an internet 'name-and-shame' site.

A very good point. I suppose there is one feasible way a paedophile can be indentified without having molested a child, and that's if they're caught subscribing to internet sites.

Certainly when a convicted paedophile is released from prison they should be monitored, but there's little that can be done to prevent them committing the crimes in the first place. The hysteria over the whole thing is just ridiculous.

 

[Aion]

My age of consent argument is that people are punished based on a number that changes depending on your location. While, yes, there should be a law to prevent CHILDREN from being taken advantage of, it's hard to take it seriously when the law isn't consistent and near enough fully-developed females are classified as children.

The laws on children and sex just define stupidity. You can have sex at 16, but you can't share photos of yourself nude/having sex until you're 18. There was even a story of some girl - who posted images of herself - getting charged with spreading child pornography; even though she was over 16 and aware of what she was doing.

And, yes, people are far more relaxed about fetishes on anime forums. Japan is far more... casual about sex in general, with things like love hotels and it being fairly normal for school girls to sell themselves, and that comes through in manga/anime. But that doesn't mean places like EG, where you get jumped on for saying anything that doesn't go in line with what's considered evil in the UK, is right.

As for 'treatment', try not to be so daft. I'm aware you (oddly enough!) believe wanting it up the arse/in the mouth from another man to be something that can't be treated, but sexual fetishes can't be changed. What turns a person on turns a person on. You can only 'treat' a person turned on by children by removing their brain because they'll still want to **** them no matter what if that's their thing.

...would you really feel comfortable letting your future children be in the care of a paedophile even if he has never committed a crime?

Except... you wouldn't know they were a paedophile unless they had commited a crime, been prosecuted for it and added to an internet 'name-and-shame' site.

A very good point. I suppose there is one feasible way a paedophile can be indentified without having molested a child, and that's if they're caught subscribing to internet sites.

Certainly when a convicted paedophile is released from prison they should be monitored, but aside from that there's little that can be done to prevent them committing the crimes in the first place. The hysteria over the whole thing is just ridiculous.

**** off, you child molesting scum.

 

[CitizenGeek]

Except... you wouldn't know they were a paedophile unless they had commited a crime, been prosecuted for it and added to an internet 'name-and-shame' site. So by that logic... anyone could be a paedophile! Let's not run the risk and never let our children near any other adults ever again! Report any suspicious behaviour! Presume guilty until proven innocent!

Obviously my hypothetical situation required the knowledge that the person you were about to leave your kids in the care of was sexually attracted to children.

Also, 'paedophile' refers to a sexual compulsion towards children. Someone can still be a paedophile even if they've never acted on their urges.

I can't help but wonder if the moral panic surrounding paedophilia is actually destroying the innocence of far more children than would otherwise be affected.

It's only right and natural that parents would be worried about sexual predators.

How should we protect minors from predators? Well, how do we protect non-minors from sexual predators? We don't.

But you're pretending like there's no difference between minors and adults! And we absolutely do have legal protections in place for children. Convicted sexual abusers are forbidden from working with children, there are age of consent laws, etc.

The law intervenes when and where a crime is commited, not before (as it should in a free society).

That is nonsense. There are many laws that attempt to pre-empt crimes. If someone is found out to be planning a terrorist attack on the London Underground, that person will go to jail for a very long time. People who download child pornography are arrested because they are complicit in the abuse of children by funding it, first of all, and secondly because they are clearly paedophiles and have the capacity to rape children in the future. The law is not always reactionary, and never has been ... whatever gave you that idea?

 

[skikes]

Paedophilia is not a sexuality, it's a mental disorder. People are not born paedophiles they learn it. Homosexuality. Paedophilia.

Please don't compare homosexuality to paedophilia. Its disgusting and offensive in any context.

As far anti-pedo protests go... is that really necessary? I mean its not like there is support for it? Its like going out and protesting rape... whos going to disagree with you? Except maybe the BNP.

I don't think people who look at shota/loli are pedos. Tentacle rape is quite popular but it doesnt mean the people who enjoy it really want to see that happen to anyone.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

Spyro/Chun Li is talking about how sorry he feels for the person who's just raped a child, seemingly sparing no sympathy for the child who's life is now in ruins and will be for the future.

He's not sympathizing with the person who's raped a child. He's sympathizing with the person who is sexually attracted to children. It must be incredibly difficult to come to terms with, and I'd wager it's no coincidence that so many child abuse scandals have involved the Catholic church; it's entirely possibly that many of those abusers were driven to religion as a way of attoning for or trying to control their urges.

But anyone who actually molests a child deserves no sympathy, and I'm sure even us deviant anime fans would agree with that. They should be imprisoned like other serious criminals. The question is whether it's a good idea to allow understandably emotional people, many of them parents, to know where a convicted paedophile lives. In my opinion, that's not the right way to go.

 

[ayase]

The law intervenes when and where a crime is commited, not before (as it should in a free society).

That is nonsense. There are many laws that attempt to pre-empt crimes. If someone is found out to be planning a terrorist attack on the London Underground, that person will go to jail for a very long time. People who download child pornography are arrested because they are complicit in the abuse of children by funding it, first of all, and secondly because they are clearly paedophiles and have the capacity to rape children in the future. The law is not always reactionary, and never has been ... whatever gave you that idea?

::sigh::

But 'conspiracy to commit murder / terrorism' and 'possession of child pornography' are also crimes. 'Being sexually attracted to children, even if there is no physical proof' is not a crime, just as 'wishing someone dead' is not a crime.

 

[shira]

Spyro ... you are truly the bleeding-heart liberal gone mad. I'm actually laughing at some of your 'heart-felt sorrow' for paedophiles. What does a "paedophile being true to their nature" actually entail for society? Paedophilia is a dangerous paraphilia, not a sexual orientation. These urges can only be natural, but they're very dangerous.

LOL. Dude, it is an orientation. People used to believe homosexuals 'chose' to be homosexuals. They were segregated against because it's 'sick and wrong'. Straight men rape women at times, homosexual guys rape other guys at times, pedophiles rape children at times. Not all straight men rape women, nor do all homosexuals rape the same sex, nor do all pedophiles rape children.

You think it's a choice? I honestly thought you'd have some empathy CG. You're saying these urges are natural, yet you want to segregate those who have these urges! You're saying these people should be segregated against because of something they're born with. I use the terms "They are born with", because many homosexuals will say they were "Born homosexual". See the similarities? Just as I am born heterosexual, you were born homosexual, these people are born pedophiles.

In other cases where they aren't born pedphiles, they often suffer immense emotional distress as a child (Abuse from parents or similar).

And I understand the comparison you're making between homosexuality and paedophilia ... I've heard it a thousand times from bigots and xenophobes who wish to bend the law to discriminate against gay people. It's a very irresponsible comparison to make and I have no idea why you're sticking to it.

Wha...? Discriminating against gay people by saying "It's natural". Wow, they sound like they make sense? Care to expand on how that works? :S

If there is a comparison that can be made, it should be made. It's not irresponsible. I've handled it as delicately as I can, and apologized for any offence I may cause in making this comparison. I don't see what i'm doing wrong here.

Being gay doesn't entail compulsions toward the rape of children. End of discussion.

Well f*cking duh. It would entail compulsions against the same sex; that's because homosexuality results in you being sexually attracted to the same sex. Rape happens among homosexuals, just as it does among heterosexuals. I never implied that homosexuality encourages rape against children. I don't get why you made this point.

Seriously, when you're a parent, Spyro, come back to this thread and I'm sure you'll be ashamed of yourself.

Sorry, are you a parent? I don't think you can tell me to "Wait until i'm a parent" to have a valid opinion. Especially since you are not one yourself.

 

[CitizenGeek]

Paedophilia is not a sexuality, it's a mental disorder. People are not born paedophiles they learn it. Homosexuality. Paedophilia.

I'm inclined to agree. Homosexuality is, as far as we know, connected to hormone levels in the womb. Most fetishes arise from experiences - I can't imagine paedophilia is any different. So let it go, Spyro. You're embarrassing yourself, insulting others and you've just got the facts completely wrong.

 

[shira]

He's not sympathizing with the person who's raped a child. He's sympathizing with the person who is sexually attracted to children. It must be incredibly difficult to come to terms with

Bingo! The man got it right.

 

[shira]

That is nonsense. There are many laws that attempt to pre-empt crimes. If someone is found out to be planning a terrorist attack on the London Underground, that person will go to jail for a very long time. People who download child pornography are arrested because they are complicit in the abuse of children by funding it, first of all, and secondly because they are clearly paedophiles and have the capacity to rape children in the future. The law is not always reactionary, and never has been ... whatever gave you that idea?

Human Rights Act 1999;
Article 9: Freedom from Arbitary Arrest, detention or exile


The legislation regarding terrorists is a very hard one to enforce. Legislation saying the foreigners could be detained indefinitely if they are suspected of terrorist activity had a declaration of incompatibility put forth against it, and the laws had to change.

There has to be a lot of evidence for one to be arrested before committing a crime.

We also have freedom of thought, expression, and speech. It's very hard to put someone down on 'pre-emptive' measures. A lot of the time they are just monitored, not actually arrested.

 

[CitizenGeek]

hey were segregated against because it's 'sick and wrong'.

Why is it not okay to exile and make pariahs of those who have compulsions to harm children? Seriously, what's the problem? It's not okay to exile homosexuals because homosexuality harms no one. Paedophilia is, by it's nature, about inflicting harm on children. But you still don't see it? You still want to continue saying me and skikkes are more similiar to paedophiles than any straight person? It's really quite incredible that you don't see how insulting, factually erroneous and downright stupid this point of yours is. You may have a decent argument in there somewhere, but it's completely spoiled by this ******** comparison with homosexuality.

You think it's a choice?

I've made the clear that I don't think it's a choice. But it most certainly is not natural either. It's a fetish, a paraphilia. There is no research AT ALL that proves any link between nature and paraphilias.

Well f*cking duh. It would entail compulsions against the same sex; that's because homosexuality results in you being sexually attracted to the same sex. Rape happens among homosexuals, just as it does among heterosexuals. I never implied that homosexuality encourages rape against children. I don't get why you made this point.

When you're gay or straight, you're compelled to have consensual sex with other people. If you are a paedophile, then you are compelled to have sex with children and the only way to do that is by raping them. That's the point I was making. Again, just let it go. Research shows that homosexuality is the result of hormone levels in the womb. It's a naturally occurring thing! Paraphilias, among them paedophile, arise from experiences, not from genetics or nature in any way. As such it's okay to classify it as a disorder. But even it was as natural as homosexuality (which it is not), it's still dangerous and still harmful all of the time and as such cannot be compared with homosexuality because homosexuality (and indeed heterosexuality) is neither of those things most of the time.

Sorry, are you a parent? I don't think you can tell me to "Wait until i'm a parent" to have a valid opinion. Especially since you are not one yourself.

Well, it's just that I haven't expended all of my empathy for paedophiles; I've actually considered what it must be like to be a parent and to know that there's a paedophile living around the corner to your home. Maybe you should try it out?

 

[CitizenGeek]

But 'conspiracy to commit murder / terrorism' and 'possession of child pornography' are also crimes. 'Being sexually attracted to children, even if there is no physical proof' is not a crime, just as 'wishing someone dead' is not a crime.

But conspiring the commit murder is clearly a law about pre-empting any harm being done to another person. As such, there are in existence laws that attempt to pre-empt any harm being done to other people. So I don't see any problem in creating laws to pre-empt paedophiles from committing the most heinous crime of all.

Human Rights Act 1999;
Article 9: Freedom from Arbitary Arrest, detention or exile

Are you completely devoid of the capacity to pick up on any subtleties at all? I did not mean actual, legal exile to some uninhabited island. I clearly intended that word to be understood as a "social exile", i.e. being treated as an outcast and not being welcomed into any community. There is no problem with treating convicted child abusers in this way.

Honestly, am I the only one who thinks it's reasonable to be worried about your children being raped by someone who has a history of raping children? -sigh-

 

[Aion]

Would this be a good time to post the following video?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7V1gEjtmm9M&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7V1gEjtmm9M&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Just for the record, it's more natural for a male to try to penis a female - young or not - than it is for one man to insert his penis in the arse of another man.

When Allah created us, I somehow doubt the master plan for continuing our species was for one man to make the hole poo comes out of sticky for another man.

...So, yeah, homosexuals should be hunted before kiddy fiddlers. Get to it. We need more 'child raping' and less yaoi in our world.

 

[CitizenGeek]

Just for the record, it's more natural for a male to try to penis a female - young or not - than it is for one man to insert his penis in the arse of another man.

Is that so? I'm pretty sure all kinds of animals and insects engage in homosexual sex, actually. And that stuff about hormones altering the brains of foetuses in the womb making them homosexuals kind of indicates that homosexuality arises from nature, not in opposition to it ;]

I never really know whether you're being factitious or not when you make these homophobic comments all the time. Clearly the admins think you're joking, or else they would ban you (or at least, I hope they wouldn't tolerate homophobia), but I'm not so sure ...

 

[shira]

Why is it not okay to exile and make pariahs of those who have compulsions to harm children?

OK, i'll stop you there, because you're wrong there. A pedophile does not wish to harm children. A pedophile is merely attracted to them. Many pedophiles are content watching things similar to loli/shota and use that as their release.

Seriously, what's the problem? It's not okay to exile homosexuals because homosexuality harms no one. Paedophilia is, by it's nature, about inflicting harm on children.

What I am saying is previously people had misconceptions of homosexuals that weren't true. As I said above, not all pedophiles act on their urges.

But you still don't see it? You still want to continue saying me and skikkes are more similiar to paedophiles than any straight person?

F*ck off did I say that. I said you could empathize with their situation. They're heavily segregated against, much as homosexuals were. I'm not saying hetero or homo sexuals are anything like pedophiles in the sense you're thinking.

Can't you see what i'm saying, really?

It's really quite incredible that you don't see how insulting, factually erroneous and downright stupid this point of yours is. You may have a decent argument in there somewhere, but it's completely spoiled by this ******** comparison with homosexuality.

As I said, I only use homosexuality as an example because I thought you could empathize with it. I am obviously mistaken.

When you're gay or straight, you're compelled to have consensual sex with other people.

No. You're compelled to have sex with other people. Nothing about it being consenting there.

Heterosexual: A person sexually attracted to persons of the opposite sex. Or a person who has sexual relations with the opposite sex.

That definition is from the Medical Dictionary

If you are a paedophile, then you are compelled to have sex with children and the only way to do that is by raping them.

Dude, yet again, not all pedophiles act on their urges. It's wrong to segregate against someone because they have a feeling or compulsion. Here's food for thought, if you think paedophillia is so depraved; Does one not have the right to be depraved? Pedophiles aren't neccessarily harming others, just having feelings that they have to live with.

Well, it's just that I haven't expended all of my empathy for paedophiles; I've actually considered what it must be like to be a parent and to know that there's a paedophile living around the corner to your home. Maybe you should try it out?

Contact me in private, and I have an interesting story to tell you.