anti-paedophile demonstrations and protests

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ayase

State Alchemist


Edit: After taking a look around that site, the picture also works as a pretty good indicator of the mindset of the people who operate it.
 

chaos

The Boss
I wonder if actual numbers of cases issue all the paranoia around the subject. I don't mean to say this is not an horrendous crime, but the way society is heading to, soon enough there will be men linched on the streets because they smiled back at a kid in a bus.
 

Asdrubael

School Idol
chaos said:
I wonder if actual numbers of cases issue all the paranoia around the subject. I don't mean to say this is not an horrendous crime, but the way society is heading to, soon enough there will be men linched on the streets because they smiled back at a kid in a bus.
Already happens. I avoid looking towards kids when I'm out just incase some parent accuses me of something. Nurses often avoid physical contact with kids (patients) such as a hug, just in case they are accused. Look at this story of a 2 year olds death which could have been prevented if it wasn't for the fear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/33 ... -help.html
 

CitizenGeek

Guild Member
From the site ....
It’s a straight forward process; A peadophile is convicted of a child abuse offence, perhaps child rape or indecent assault. He goes on to serve a custodial sentence for his crime. After serving his time he is released from jail, and at this point, the public feel concerned about this convicted child molester living amongst them. Are they wrong to feel concerned about the presence of this paedophile in their neighbourhood?
Can anyone honestly say that it's wrong to be concerned about the presence of a convicted paedophile in their community?
 

Kirrimir

Adventurer
To put it simply this is life... or the worse side of it. There will never be a complete eradication of paedophile's. I don't think they should be executed because it's immoral to take someone's life, they get enough sh*t from society and there often long prison sentences are most likely a lesson hard learned for them. I think it's honestly impossible to say that people are not concerned by having a known paedophille in there neighbourhood and quite rightly so if they feel the person in question is a threat to them or thier family then they should be worried.

I will ask the age old question of: 'Are lolicon's any better than paedophiles?' although the people they fantasize about are not real they are still portrayed as children. Your thoughts?
 

CitizenGeek

Guild Member
Yes, I'm pretty sure people who watch lolicon are paedophiles. A lot of paedophiles don't act out on their compulsions, but watching lolicon pornography cannot be helpful. Paedophiles should seek treatment. Treatment for paedophiles should be more readily available, I agree - but the idea that it's harsh to stigmatise individuals who have acted out on their paedophilia and in doing so have raped a child and seriously damaged their current and, most especially, future well being is absurd.
 
It's a difficult issue. On the one hand I can sympathise with parents, but on the other hand people who have served sentences for crimes they've committed should have the right to get on with their lives. Presumably these people are supervised in some capacity after their release from prison?
 

Kirrimir

Adventurer
fabricatedlunatic said:
Presumably these people are supervised in some capacity after their release from prison?
To be honest i think they are just let loose, as are most criminals. The only ones who get monitored i think are ones with mental health problems for whatever reason and even then how often do you find that 'such and such kill someone' and they have only just been released from prison for a similar offence.

I agree with you, if they have served the sentence given to them and have learned from their mistakes then they should be allowed to continue life in a normal manner.
 

Shirayuri

Shinigami
CitizenGeek said:
Yes, I'm pretty sure people who watch lolicon are paedophiles. A lot of paedophiles don't act out on their compulsions, but watching lolicon pornography cannot be helpful.
There is a severe lack of evidence to support this. When doing a presentation titled Should non-photographic images of children witnessing/engaging in sexual acts be made illegal I found that infact, just as your theory suggests it is bad for pedophiles to watch Loli, it could be good for them. It can work as a "release".

This is interesting actually CG, as you're homosexual. I'm assuming you will say that it is not you're choice to be homosexual, so you can empathize with pedophiles, surely? It is not their choice to be attracted to younger adults/children.

If someone were to say to you "You cannot announce the fact you are homosexual or society will segregate you to the extent of creating a petition to kick you out of their town", would you feel it fair? Because, this is the same thing. A pedophile cannot "come out" about how they feel. Most people would still be distrusting of them even if they had received treatment. Yes, it's wrong to act on their urges, but there comes a line where things are inhumane. You want to quote the website huh? Let's take a look at this;

mumoffour said:
I can understand people wanting to torture, chop up into little peices, and feed to the gulls, the monsters who abuse our children. But do we want to stoop to such low levels?
YES WE DO!!!!! THE LONGER THE PAIN, THE MORE CRUEL THE DEATH, IT IS STILL TOO HUMANE FOR THESE SICK, TWISTED EXCUSE FOR HUMAN LIFE!!!!!
You can find that post here

The problem is, this "peaceful non violent" protest, could very easily get violent because of depraved people like this. I spent time browsing that forum, and 90% of the posters are like that. I can understand them disliking or hating paedophiles because they don't understand them (Afterall, that was the main reason behind homophobia wasn't it? Not understanding that you could be human and still attracted to the same sex. Believe it or not, people were like this towards homosexuals at one point.)

Yes, I believe pedophiles are most definately massively different from homosexuals, but as you say, there should definately be a shift in attitudes in society. Currently, we're encouraged to be totally against 'open' pedophiles, but if we were more accepting, maybe they'd be more inclined to accept treatment? I'm really on the fence on this one. I can't see societies attitude ever changing though.


CitizenGeek said:
Paedophiles should seek treatment. Treatment for paedophiles should be more readily available, I agree - but the idea that it's harsh to stigmatise individuals who have acted out on their paedophilia and in doing so have raped a child and seriously damaged their current and, most especially, future well being is absurd.
I agree with most of this however.
 

Y-San

Shinki
CitizenGeek said:
Yes, I'm pretty sure people who watch lolicon are paedophiles.
surly that makes a large part of Otaku's, pedo's as well


"Were's yer children at, Were's your children at "
 

chaos

The Boss
Asdrubael said:
chaos said:
I wonder if actual numbers of cases issue all the paranoia around the subject. I don't mean to say this is not an horrendous crime, but the way society is heading to, soon enough there will be men linched on the streets because they smiled back at a kid in a bus.
Already happens. I avoid looking towards kids when I'm out just incase some parent accuses me of something. Nurses often avoid physical contact with kids (patients) such as a hug, just in case they are accused. Look at this story of a 2 year olds death which could have been prevented if it wasn't for the fear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/33 ... -help.html
Can't say how sad this is.

Kirrimir said:
I will ask the age old question of: 'Are lolicon's any better than paedophiles?' although the people they fantasize about are not real they are still portrayed as children. Your thoughts?
Sure is. It's not real. No victim, no crime.

As mysoginistic as this may be, if I get a girl to agree roleplay a rape, I wouldn't be a rapist.
There is a huge difference between fantasizing and actually committing a crime.

This has ben discussed over and over here before.
 

ayase

State Alchemist
Spyro has it pretty much on the money for me. since we've been over this whole issue a couple of times before I only have one new question:

CitizenGeek said:
Paedophiles should seek treatment.
What exactly would this treatment be though? The only treatment I can think of to stop people being sexually attracted to anyone or anything is that which is designed to punish said behaviour; Basically... a form of torture. A pretty unappealing prospect.

I honestly don't think anyone will have the answer with how to deal with paedophilia until we understand the human mind better.
 

ilmaestro

State Alchemist
CitizenGeek said:
Yes, I'm pretty sure people who watch lolicon are paedophiles.
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
 

CitizenGeek

Guild Member
Sorry, ilmaestro, but if you like looking at pornographic images depicting children, even in animated form, you're a paedophile. How about you post some images from lolicon on any forum and ask "if person X is compelled to look at these images, is person X a paedophile?". Then at least you'll know that most people don't share your opinion. Oh, and of course, this experiment wouldn't work if it's conducted on an anime forum for reasons that are too obvious to go into ;]

Chun Li said:
I'm assuming you will say that it is not you're choice to be homosexual, so you can empathize with pedophiles, surely?
Jesus ... Spyro, really? Really? That's completely ridiculous and obscenely offensive! Honestly, I did not expect such homophobic nonsense from you. Having a compulsion toward consensual sex with adults is in no way comparable to having compulsions toward raping and abusing children. Suggesting otherwise, like you've just done, is entirely unacceptable and you should know better.

I can understand them disliking or hating paedophiles because they don't understand them
No, no. I'm pretty sure people hate paedophiles because they've taken advantage of innocent children. I'm pretty sure the kind of vitriol in that post you quoted from the site arises not from misunderstanding but from a justified outrage and repulsion. Raping and sexually molesting a child are considered the most serious of all crimes for a reason.

Maybe you should save some of the sympathy you have for child rapists for the actual victims. I'm assuming you haven't heard someone who was raped as a child speak about their experience and about the trauma and horror and anxiety that hangs over them every day of their lives following that unimaginable crime inflicted upon them. Here in Ireland, the news has been filled with reports on the investigations into the seemingly systematic raping and sexual molestation of children (let's cease using this generous euphemism 'child abuse' - it's rape and molestation) in Catholic schools in the infancy of the Irish state. The details of those reports are truly shocking. The testimonials of the victims are heart-breaking. I can fully understand the violent words of that poster on the site. When I hear about the actions of paedophiles, my blood boils and I start to doubt my opposition to the death penalty.

(Afterall, that was the main reason behind homophobia wasn't it? Not understanding that you could be human and still attracted to the same sex. Believe it or not, people were like this towards homosexuals at one point.)
I'm genuinely horrified that you're making this comparison again and again in your post. Homosexuality and paedophilia are two completely different things! I'm gay and yet I'm sure I know no more about the mind of paedophile than does any straight person. Comparing the justified disgust and hatred parents and others have towards paedophiles to homophobia is unbelievably stupid. I'm embarrassed for you.

Yes, I believe pedophiles are most definately massively different from homosexuals
Clearly not! You've just structured your opposing argument completely on the apparent similarities between homosexuality and paedophilia.

but as you say, there should definately be a shift in attitudes in society. Currently, we're encouraged to be totally against 'open' pedophiles, but if we were more accepting, maybe they'd be more inclined to accept treatment? I'm really on the fence on this one. I can't see societies attitude ever changing though.
No, I never said there should be a shift in attitudes. If someone rapes a child then that person should have "CHILD RAPIST" permanently seared onto their forehead as far as I'm concerned. The anger and animus people feel towards convicted paedophiles is 100% justified and I have no problem with that. I would like to see anonymous helplines and websites and therapy clinics provided by the Health Services Executive (or the NHS, for you Brits), because, obviously, not all paedophiles act on their urges and the ones that don't should have help in coping with their compulsions.

ayase said:
What exactly would this treatment be though?
There are methods and programs to treat paedophiles. I'm not entirely sure of how they work, but they involve teaching people to manage their urges and compulsions as far as I know. There are chemical treatments too, though I'm unaware as to how efficacious they are.
 

ilmaestro

State Alchemist
CitizenGeek said:
Sorry, ilmaestro, but if you like looking at pornographic images depicting children, even in animated form, you're a paedophile.
Don't be sorry, just stop talking bollocks.

I like the other part of your post where you equate pedophilia to "compulsions toward raping and abusing children".

You can't have both of those points be right.

If you need a dictionary, I'll gift you one via Amazon.
 

Shirayuri

Shinigami
CitizenGeek said:
Chun Li said:
I'm assuming you will say that it is not you're choice to be homosexual, so you can empathize with pedophiles, surely?
Jesus ... Spyro, really? Really? That's completely ridiculous and obscenely offensive! Honestly, I did not expect such homophobic nonsense from you. Having a compulsion toward consensual sex with adults is in no way comparable to having compulsions toward raping and abusing children. Suggesting otherwise, like you've just done, is entirely unacceptable and you should know better.
Bro, what i'm doing is not saying "They're the same thing", i'm saying that society has had the same attitude towards homosexuals in the past. Any sexuality (exluding being heterosexual, obviously) has had this stigma at some point. Seriously, if people are into hentai, they get accused of all sorts of ****. Even if the characters in that hentai are consenting, it's all because most people cant understand why someone might watch hentai.

The "Anime is for kids" argument works the same way. People dont understand why an adult would watch a 'cartoon', so they question it, while pushing it away.

I apologize if i've offended you here, but these are very genuine comparisons i'm making.

CitizenGeek said:
Chun Li said:
I can understand them disliking or hating paedophiles because they don't understand them
No, no. I'm pretty sure people hate paedophiles because they've taken advantage of innocent children. I'm pretty sure the kind of vitriol in that post you quoted from the site arises not from misunderstanding but from a justified outrage and repulsion. Raping and sexually molesting a child are considered the most serious of all crimes for a reason.
I must disagree with regards to the emboldened part. Not all pedophiles act on their urges. They are still heavily segregated against in society. You can't deny that.



CitizenGeek said:
Here in Ireland, the news has been filled with reports on the investigations into the seemingly systematic raping and sexual molestation of children ... When I hear about the actions of paedophiles, my blood boils and I start to doubt my opposition to the death penalty.
(The above had some of it cut)

Only the serious **** gets in the news. Not all of it will be that bad, that's why it's called child abuse in many cases. It's wrong, yeah, I agree with that. Acting on your urges is unforgivable, but, it's hard for them not to act on their sexual urges. Surely anyone can empathize with that? Do you have no sympathy for the fact that these people cannot act upon their own, natural, sexual urges because they could face a prison sentance or murder from their community. Looking at those forums, those people genuinly would kill, too.

In regards to the death penalty... well how depraved should this penalty be? You agree with the post I quoted?

CitizenGeek said:
Chun Li said:
(Afterall, that was the main reason behind homophobia wasn't it? Not understanding that you could be human and still attracted to the same sex. Believe it or not, people were like this towards homosexuals at one point.)
I'm genuinely horrified that you're making this comparison again and again in your post. Homosexuality and paedophilia are two completely different things! I'm gay and yet I'm sure I know no more about the mind of paedophile than does any straight person. Comparing the justified disgust and hatred parents and others have towards paedophiles to homophobia is unbelievably stupid. I'm embarrassed for you.
I've avoided making it again in this post, but if you really can't see the similarity between any sexuality and this, then I need to explain. What i'm trying to show you here is that you did not choose to be homosexual. It was a case of "It felt natural" to you (Or something similar.) These people do not choose to be attracted to children. On a basic level, they're one and the same. Just as I do not choose to be attracted to females, I just am.

Homosexuals, until recently were heavily segregated against. There was even legislation allowing the arrest of homosexuals who kissed in public! Homosexuals had a very hard time being accepted by society. I have some case studies i've done that were frankly ludicrous if you need examples, but I really doubt you do.

Pedophiles are getting the same treatment. They're heavily segregated against, and if they openly said "I'm attracted to children", they'd probably get flogged in the street. That is what is wrong. They get punished for feeling a natural urge. They are forced to be repressed, depressed, and lonely. No individual should be forced to feel this way in a civilized society.

CitizenGeek said:
Yes, I believe pedophiles are most definately massively different from homosexuals
Clearly not! You've just structured your opposing argument completely on the apparent similarities between homosexuality and paedophilia.
No, it's not all on the similarities. I hope by giving some similarities to heterosexuals like myself, will make you realize, this applies to nearly any sexuality. (Bar, obviously to some extent heterosexuality, as we've never been segregated against for our sexuality).


CitizenGeek said:
No, I never said there should be a shift in attitudes. If someone rapes a child then that person should have "CHILD RAPIST" permanently seared onto their forehead as far as I'm concerned.
What about if after they've been convicted, they recieve treatment and return to "normal". Is that fair?

I'm not in any way saying that a pedophiles actions should ever be accepted, or could ever be justified. Maybe i'm soft, but I can't help but feel a pang of guilt or sorrow though, knowing there are some out there who are to scared to be 'themselves' because of what society will think of them. I hope after what i've said, you can see where i'm coming from.

Again I apologize for any offence i've caused. I hope this post cleared things up.
 

CitizenGeek

Guild Member
Spyro ... you are truly the bleeding-heart liberal gone mad. I'm actually laughing at some of your 'heart-felt sorrow' for paedophiles. What does a "paedophile being true to their nature" actually entail for society? Paedophilia is a dangerous paraphilia, not a sexual orientation. These urges can only be natural, but they're very dangerous.

And I understand the comparison you're making between homosexuality and paedophilia ... I've heard it a thousand times from bigots and xenophobes who wish to bend the law to discriminate against gay people. It's a very irresponsible comparison to make and I have no idea why you're sticking to it. Being gay doesn't entail compulsions toward the rape of children. End of discussion.

Seriously, when you're a parent, Spyro, come back to this thread and I'm sure you'll be ashamed of yourself.

ilmaestro said:
I like the other part of your post where you equate pedophilia to "compulsions toward raping and abusing children".

You can't have both of those points be right.
They're the same thing ... how can they not be? People who watch pornography surely want to have sex themselves eventually? Even if they don't intend to act on those compulsions, they have to be there, or else the 'point' in watching pornography (that is, sexual arousal) is lost. And no one can intend to have consensual sex with a child. There is no such thing. So, if you do have compulsions towards having sex with children, then those compulsions are really about raping and molesting them.
 

AironicallyHuman

Time-Traveller
It is not desire that makes one wrong. It's acting on those desires. What separates a killer from a 'normal' person is the willpower required to act, and what makes someone with a fetish into a sex offender is a lack of caring for others or a lack of intelligence.

There are many people turned on by children, which the loli craze in anime highlights. In Japan in particular, youth is valued. However, none of them are criminals unless they act on their desires, and they remain 'good citizens'.

The line between good and evil in our society is decided based on a random number which differs from country to country. Go on the wrong side of that number and you're evil. That's how simple-minded people are.
 
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