Advent Children: Roses or rubbish?

[Nyu]

My knowledge of Final Fantasy VII is limited to general knowledge, i haven't played the game but intend to one day.

Having said that i have seen the film and on the whole it wasn't down right dire. But, it did have some huge flaws. It's one that many movies based on anime/tv stumble on. Instead of taking those extra few minutes at the start and throughout the film to explain things they dont. It's assumed that the viewer already has substantial knowledge of things. which i didnt.

To be fair, the fight scenes were great and the musical score was submlime. I'll give it that. But it fails on basic storytelling. I mean, come on, when the rest of the cast was brought in during the final fight they were just cameos'. The dog with the Scottish accent. Just who the hell was he? in the context of the film just a no-body.

Because of Hollywood when people fay "flop" people automtically think money. Maybe its a poor choice of word to use, i dont know. Advent Children is exactly the same as Sprits Within. Both utterly stunning peices of work, but the fall at the plot.

 

[CitizenGeek]

by the end nothing might as well have happened.

That's an absurd statement. Have you actually played FFVII, Sy? Because you haven't answered that question yet.

But, in terms of FFVII, a lot happenend in AC. We had no idea what happenend after the planet saved itself from Meteor, we had no idea what the world was like after that, we didn't know what became of the Shin-Ra company, what became of the characters, what became of the Turks, we weren't fully sure about Aerith, we didn't know about what would happen to Jenova - Advent Children answered, to a satisfactory degree, all of those questions. Cloud's story is concluded in AC; his story was by no means 'done' at the end of FFVII. I wanted to know how he felt about Aerith and Zack, and AC showed me that. Add to all this the introduction of 3 brand new characters and a new plotline involving a mysterious disease and Advent Children's successes far outweigh it's failings.

So, again, this is another example of one needing to be a fan in order to appreciate Advent Children on any level beyond it's (absolutely stunning, btw!) visuals.

Oh lawdy, I missed quite possibly the best arguement in a long time. This topic is hilarious, someone, please, archive it, right now.

Great discussion, would read again.

Now, should I kick it all off again...? It's all too tempting. :O

Why do you do this so often? Building disagreements up to be something monumental or whatever. It's not clever, it's certainly not funny and you should really give the hyperbole a rest.

Because of Hollywood when people fay "flop" people automtically think money. Maybe its a poor choice of word to use, i dont know. Advent Children is exactly the same as Sprits Within. Both utterly stunning peices of work, but the fall at the plot.

Advent Children was not, as I've already pointed out, a 'flop' on any level - commerically, critically or in terms of fan reception. So, I'm really puzzled that Paul would choose that word and then not really explain it at all.

 

[Lupus]

That's an absurd statement. Have you actually played FFVII, Sy? Because you haven't answered that question yet.

But, in terms of FFVII, a lot happenend in AC. We had no idea what happenend after the planet saved itself from Meteor, we had no idea what the world was like after that, we didn't know what became of the Shin-Ra company, what became of the characters, what became of the Turks, we weren't fully sure about Aerith, we didn't know about what would happen to Jenova - Advent Children answered, to a satisfactory degree, all of those questions.

Better the questions go un-answered, so it's left a mystery forever, leaving the world of Final Fantasy VII in a mysterious manner, it serves as food for thought... but also produces ****** fan fictions on par with Advent Children's story-telling. No one wins.

Cloud's story is concluded in AC; his story was by no means 'done' at the end of Advent Children. I wanted to know how he felt about Aerith and Zack, and AC showed me that. Add to all this the introduction of 3 brand new characters and a new plotline involving a mysterious disease and Advent Children's successes far outweigh it's failings.

It was done, pretty much, I seriously doubt Squaresoft thought "Hmm, let us continue VII from where it left off once we finish off this game." Only once they saw the money being raked in for it did they want to bring some "additional" story into it, hence AC.

So, again, this is another example of one needing to be a fan in order to appreciate Advent Children on any level beyond it's (absolutely stunning, btw!) visuals.

I'm a fan, I appreciated it, until I realized it was a cheap cash-in. Go me.

Why do you do this so often? Building disagreements up to be something monumental or whatever. It's not clever, it's certainly not funny and you should really give the hyperbole a rest.

If you don't like how I roll, don't read my posts. Also, I like how you ignored the rest of it. ;/

Advent Children was not, as I've already pointed out, a 'flop' on any level - commerically, critically or in terms of fan reception. So, I'm really puzzled that Paul would choose that word and then not really explain it at all.

Advent Children wasn't a flop because like I said it had "Final Fantasy" in it's name, so it sold REALLY well, because of the fans.

 

[Paul]

Flop in terms of quality, critical reception and potential. Just because some fans like it doesn't make it a good movie, which it isn't. I wouldn't usually consider it an utterly horrible film, but considering just how much time and effort was wasted on it, I just wish they'd taken more time to create a move that works for the non-FF gaming audience. It really could have attracted so much attention to the anime industry if the producers were just a little more ambitious and really tried to create a story that works in its own right. The whole thing just smacks of wasted potential, it should have been better, hence, it flopped. I've said pretty much everything I wanted to about AC over the years and this is the end. Just look at the external reviews via the IMDB page, there's no Roger Ebert on that list, and not even the BBC or the Guardian bothered to review it. No-one cared about Advent Children except for the fans, that might be okay for some, but for me, that's seriously disappointing.

 

[Aion]

Final Fantasy VII is my favourite game of all time. It was my first RPG.

I dislike Advent Children. I don't hate it since it looks good, sounds good and is quite enjoyable if you're looking for some mindless entertainment, but that's ultimately all Advent Children is. All we (FFVII fans) got was a pointless story involving Cloud still being emo over Aeris after 2 years. There was also a completely random cameo appearance for Sephiroth, who somehow managed to come back/transform from the dead for a VERY dull battle to the death (again) with Cloud, before losing...again.

I don't feel like going into detail since my FFVII memory is hazy and I've been typing quite a bit about Gankutsuou.

 

[MaxonTreik]

Nevermind the semantics.

It sucked balls, no matter how you look at it.

 

[Wildcard]

Wow, this forum's aggressive. I watched AC and I didn't hate it, but being someone unfamliar with the game it felt extremely shallow to me. I guess whether it's percieved to be a good or a bad movie is down to whether it's reviewed in relation to the game.

 

[Sy]

That's an absurd statement. Have you actually played FFVII, Sy? Because you haven't answered that question yet.

Yeah I played the game and while I enjoyed the story the gameplay itself was boring(not a fan of RPG's except Zelda). I never finished the game myself but since nearly everyone I know loves FF7 (the game anyway) I have seen it through to the end.

Like Lupus said though, some questions should just remain questions. When they try to answer questions that don't really need answers you get half arsed storytelling like in AC.

 

[CitizenGeek]

Also, I like how you ignored the rest of it. ;/

You say the topic is "hilarious" and then you want me to take what you say seriously? Eh ....

Yeah I played the game and while I enjoyed the story the gameplay itself was boring(not a fan of RPG's except Zelda). I never finished the game myself but since nearly everyone I know loves FF7 (the game anyway) I have seen it through to the end.

Zelda is an RPG?

Like Lupus said though, some questions should just remain questions. When they try to answer questions that don't really need answers you get half arsed storytelling like in AC.

As Advent Children ends, there are still many, many unanswered questions. Dirge of Cerberus happens a year after Advent Children and that story's ending leaves a lot of questions, too. I'm not sure what you're looking for in Advent Children (though, it appears as thought you expected it to be the greatest film ever made, not a sequel and not related to Final Fantasy VII :/) but you're missing the bigger picture. I took in the whole world of Advent Children, the background - instead of concentrating solely on the disease plotline (which isn't exactly the overwhelming focus of the film, anyway).

Flop in terms of quality, critical reception and potential.

Two of those things are opinion, and therefore, not actually fact. Critical reception is debatable. Most of the external reviews you posted in that IMDB link were fairly positive ... certainly not bad enough to warrant calling it a critical 'flop'. The Metacritic average is a high 8.1 - it's based only on reviews from gaming sites, but AC was made for gamers.

Just look at the external reviews via the IMDB page, there's no Roger Ebert on that list, and not even the BBC or the Guardian bothered to review it. No-one cared about Advent Children except for the fans, that might be okay for some, but for me, that's seriously disappointing.

There are no reviews for Paprika or Tekkonkinkreet from the BBC, the Guardian or the Roger Ebert. Does that mean you'd call them flops, too?

 

[Nyu]

Yeah I played the game and while I enjoyed the story the gameplay itself was boring(not a fan of RPG's except Zelda). I never finished the game myself but since nearly everyone I know loves FF7 (the game anyway) I have seen it through to the end.

Zelda is an RPG?

yes. yes it is.

 

[Lupus]

Also, I like how you ignored the rest of it. ;/

You say the topic is "hilarious" and then you want me to take what you say seriously? Eh ....

Yes, this topic is hilarious, because once again you aim to protect your precious Final Fantasy franchise. Just so you know.

Also, LoZ series is an RPG, but not in the respects of a normal J-RPG.

 

[Ark]

I think I switched off after the second "Shilly Shally Dilly Dally".

 

[CitizenGeek]

Yes, this topic is hilarious, because once again you aim to protect your precious Final Fantasy franchise. Just so you know.

You know what's also 'hilarious'?

OMG! This is classic! So many lulz! EPIC! -insert other, unfunny 4chan meme here- Quick, someone archieve this! BIGGEST ARGUMENT EVAR!!

Does that remind you of something?

I'm not trying to 'protect' Final Fantasy; FF doesn't need protection, it's one of the successful entertainment franchises in the whole world. I'm just debating with people about it, which is something you do on forums. It's not a crime to like Final Fantasy a lot more than you do; just so you know.

 

[Lupus]

You know what's also 'hilarious'?

OMG! This is classic! So many lulz! EPIC! -insert other, unfunny 4chan meme here- Quick, someone archieve this! BIGGEST ARGUMENT EVAR!!

You'd be lucky to find anyone who actually takes me seriously. ;/

I'm not trying to 'protect' Final Fantasy; FF doesn't need protection, it's one of the successful entertainment franchises in the whole world.

As soon as someone bashes the series though you're just... there, instantly arguing against it, that's what I mean, mayn.

I'm just debating with people about it, which is something you do on forums. It's not a crime to like Final Fantasy a lot more than you do; just so you know.

It's not a crime, although it might as well be one in your case. >_>

 

[CitizenGeek]

It's not a crime, although it might as well be one in your case. >_>

Eh, it's really not that big of a deal. I like Final Fantasy, it interests me, when people say misleading things about it, I get annoyed. It's not the end of the world, though it might as well be in your case.

 

[Lupus]

It's not that it's actually bad you're passionate about the Final Fantasy series, but the extremes that you go to when talking about/arguing about it. It's quite clear, from this thread and various others.

 

[CitizenGeek]

It's not that it's actually bad you're passionate about the Final Fantasy series, but the extremes that you go to when talking about/arguing about it. It's quite clear, from this thread and various others.

What's "quite clear"? You just said I go to extremes (a very broad statement), you didn't actually mention what these extremes were, and then you said that they were "quite clear" - how am I to extract any useful information from that?

 

[Lupus]

So what? You want me to provide examples? Just go check one of the seven hundred Final Fantasy topics in the gaming section, and read some of them, you'll probably see what I mean.

 

[CitizenGeek]

So what? You want me to provide examples? Just go check one of the seven hundred Final Fantasy topics in the gaming section, and read some of them, you'll probably see what I mean.

No, not really. All I do is debate with people, no crime there. In fact, you're the only person that freaks out every time I mention the word "Final Fantasy". Just chill out a little ;]

 

[awadama]

I didn't think much of it first time (I was convinced it was gonna suck and I was sticking to it), but I enjoyed it a lot more on my second watch.

I think it'd look so much nicer in HD though...just waiting for them to hurry up with this blu-ray... >_>