ADV Films UK halt sale & distribution of select titles

MKT said:
harkins said:
Our current market is so small that I think the increased sales gained by an absence of downloading would be a drop in the puddle.

I agree with you completely, I just brought up fansubs so I can be a turd :p

Out of curiosity, do many Japanese DVD releases include English subs? I've toyed with the idea of buying straight from Japan in the past, mainly because I might pick up some cool little freebies along the way. And I'm guessing the wait would be less than the US, or is that assumption incorrect?

Tank SWAT had an adorable paper model of the new Bonaparte tank.
Most Japanese releases do not have English subs; less have English dubs. A fairly large proportion of Ghibli releases include English subtitles with one or two special editions containing English dubs as well (Howl's Moving Castle was one such). I do not think any TV series has ever included English translations; OVAs on very odd occasions have subtitles (a special edition of Blue Submarine no. 6 was an example of this) but mostly do not; and movies also occasionally include English subtitles (Ghibli form the majority of such releases with most other distributors not including them).

In short, expect any DVDs from Japan to not include English subtitles since most of the time that is how it is. Also worth bearing in mind that Japanese releases generally have less episodes per disc than native releases (a rule of thumb is that 13 episode series will have 1-2 episodes per disc and 26 episode series will have 2-3 episodes per disc.)
 
MKT said:
Looking back over the years it does seem to be a pattern, I remember when Manga Ent. went screwy after gaining a fair amount of popularity. ADV popped along and released some good quality Anime and then Manga seemed to go in convulsions, now we rarely see anything from them. Although since Naruto and GITS:SAC it's boosted their releases, I seem to remember for a couple of years they kind of disappeared almost completely. I don't think for a second ADV releases will never see the light of day, I imagine releases will just be more few and far between, so we'll just have to increase or threshold for patience again.

Although I won't get into a comparison here between ADV and Manga - the two companies were the only two to survive the VHS to DVD swap through in one case just releasing a large catalogue and in the latter's case very street smart marketing coupled with good retail links.

This is exactly the point, as made above that is true. ADV titles are not going off the radar and will be seen in the UK again very soon (ASAP, ADV US just needs to find a distributor here willing to agree to whatever T+Cs they want*) - so it's there's no doom there :).

What is gloom however, as Fellistowe has pointed out is the fact that the press release pretty much spells out the fate of the UK office (not my place to either confirm or deny that one though). The loss of Hugh + team at ADV UK is a pretty big one, as they have been responsible for many profile raising events in the UK. Not only that but the kind of transfer described means your chances of getting your views heard by ADV are greatly reduced from now on, gone will be the friendly faces that actually listen at conventions.

MKT said:
With all this talk of history repeating itself, I wonder if the UK has a strong enough market to support more than one or two Anime companies. You have to remember we are a niche within a niche, which must make us a nightmare to support. It'd be great to be able to sit down and choose to watch one of many 24/7 Anime channels on terrestrial, before deciding to nip down to a DVD shop to easily collect the latest Japanese releases, pop into my local newsagent and buy the latest issue of Afternoon or Young Magazine UK .... but I think even if (or when) Anime/Manga hits major mainstream, it'll never happen because I imagine we're too small.

On the subject of history repeating, I've posted similar to my blog actually - but for the record before the big crash around the late 90's - there were 7 distributors out there:

Manga Video - Familiar anyone? This was Manga Entertainment's name before it went through endless changes. Released notable titles like Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scrolls, Blood The Last Vampire and of course in 1991 they introduced the UK to Akira.

ADV Films - A name that hasn't changed much after the initial leap from A.D. Vision to ADV Films. We all know their lineup from the days they launched in the UK (1996) even if not around, titles like Evangelion, Bubblegum Crisis 2040 and Tekken.

MVM - Again a familiar name, launched around the end of the shake up time as a video label (1999), they brought out titles such as Lum, Blue Gender and Sailor Moon.

Kiseki Films - This was run by the Revelation group (sound familiar to anyone?) who released a selection of "the Overfiend" titles to the UK on the success of Manga Video plus a release of Gunbuster (long story there...). So before Revelation Films started releasing Funimation titles, they did release some more "adult" titles!

Pioneer UK - Started in 1995, released titles like Tenchi Muyo and Record of Lodoss War and shut up shop in early Q2 of 2000.

Anime Projects - A small company that released UK versions of Animego's work. Sadly their titles were not popular at the time due to a small market meaning they lasted from 1992 to 1995 only, though titles still floated around after for a chunk of time.

Western Connection - Originally a company that released some very select foreign films to the UK. When they released the Japanese animated erotic movie The Sensualist[1] in 1994 they decided to release such titles as Devil Hunter Yoko and Ushio and Tora to the UK, sold their licenses to Anime Projects who kept them in print until the label shut down.

What happened? The supply and demand got harder with too many companies coming into the market then over saturating it with titles.

Not entirely the same problem again but it's undeniable that due to everyone's best meaning intentions the anime market has been inflated artificially again and now what we are seeing is that bubble bursting (I'd wager there is more to come).

Despair not though - because it's my firm belief that underneath this false inflation lies a real growth too. Small, but firm, as Rome wasn't built in a day - nor was the European continent's love of anime and manga. In France for example - there are conventions larger than any in the US, manga sales are high enough to support circa 40 publishers [2]. It took the space of at least two decades to get that far as well.

So of nothing else - the last 5 years have planted the seeds to help anime grow in the UK. So this kind of happening definitely isn't new - but each time it happens lessons are learnt by the survivors...

* The odds of Revelation or MVM being a distributor for them is about 0.01% for the record, you'll be looking at someone far more like Pinnacle (though not necessarily them).

[1] www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=5379
[2] http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... 346610.htm
 
Thank's for the backup Andrew ;)

Just thought it'd be worth noting AnimeonDVD have picked up on ADV Germany putting several titles on Hiatus too:

"While the sourcing isn't clear, it appears that several ADV Films releases for Germany have been put on hiatus pending changes which includes Guyver - The Bioboosted Armor, Utawarerumono - Heldenlied, Perfect Girl, Venus Versus Virus and Moonlight Mile."

I was wondering when we'd hear something about that office. They are quite a bit bigger than ADV UK aren't they?
 
beez_andrew said:
What happened? The supply and demand got harder with too many companies coming into the market then over saturating it with titles.

Not entirely the same problem again but it's undeniable that due to everyone's best meaning intentions the anime market has been inflated artificially again and now what we are seeing is that bubble bursting (I'd wager there is more to come).

Despair not though - because it's my firm belief that underneath this false inflation lies a real growth too. Small, but firm, as Rome wasn't built in a day - nor was the European continent's love of anime and manga. In France for example - there are conventions larger than any in the US, manga sales are high enough to support circa 40 publishers [2]. It took the space of at least two decades to get that far as well.

So of nothing else - the last 5 years have planted the seeds to help anime grow in the UK. So this kind of happening definitely isn't new - but each time it happens lessons are learnt by the survivors...

This is the kind of information we need, excellent stuff.

Can I have a link to your blog if possible? It's rare you find a source of information that isn't sensationalised (if that's a word) or just looks into the short-term of everything.

I'd also like to know if it's possible to gauge how much the market has increased ignoring all this 'fake-growth'.

Also, I really envy the French market. The UK market might have been on a par if the negative media that anime/manga got when Manga started releasing its hentai and ultra violent titles didn't actually happen. Damn that media!

Fellistowe said:
I was wondering when we'd hear something about that office. They are quite a bit bigger than ADV UK aren't they?

Ironic isn't it, seeing that they've only been going for less than a year (as far as I'm aware).
 
I'll just cross my arms and say as I've always said; the cost is too high and has previously pushed me in the direction of importation more than once.

I meen, what would you want to pay for a 26 episode series that happens to be named Nadeisco? £21 for three 2 disk volumes that are remastered and have removed 99% of the overlays (the remixed op being the only real overlay)? or £60 for a box that has the overlaid version of the show.

And that's for a show that I adore for goodness sake.

also, wasn't Pinicale entertainment the same jokers who released 13 episdoes of Inuyasha with a great deal of proding and then stoped releaseing said series?
 
Conan-san said:
I'll just cross my arms and say as I've always said; the cost is too high and has previously pushed me in the direction of importation more than once.

I meen, what would you want to pay for a 26 episode series that happens to be named Nadeisco? £21 for three 2 disk volumes that are remastered and have removed 99% of the overlays (the remixed op being the only real overlay)? or £60 for a box that has the overlaid version of the show.

And that's for a show that I adore for goodness sake.

also, wasn't Pinicale entertainment the same jokers who released 13 episdoes of Inuyasha with a great deal of proding and then stoped releaseing said series?

I dunno, are Fabulous Films part of Pinnacle?

As I recall, they only ever released 12 episodes to see how they would do. Their advertising is thin, so hardly anyone knew it was out, in fact Inuyasha in the UK is still a bit of a surprise for some people. They never promised a volume 2, and I guess sales never warranted it.

That's the only anime they have release, although they do have Monkey, The Water Margin and a couple of Pinky films.

http://www.fabulousfilms.co.uk/site/Home/Index.htm

A fair bit of other eclectic stuff.

The big thing this spring for anime fans is the complete Mysterious Cities Of Gold, all 39 episodes (dub only) with loads of extras.


I agree with you about importing, and it's currently helped by the exchange rate.

Noein boxset from Manga Ent in the UK with dubtitles is £49.99 RRP

In the US, it came out this Tuesday from Manga Ent, with the proper translated subtitles for $39.98.

I got it pre-order for £12, not including P&P

I'd be a mug to pay more for inferior product, no matter how much I want to support the UK industry.
 
When it comes to ADV withdrawing their direct involvement in Germany, I think the UK office was heavily involved in all of that (i.e. I think people like Hugh David were making the decisions), and since most of those people are now out of a job, I suppose it's not surprising that all of this has effected the German industry too. I doubt ADV would pull out of there altogether though, IIRC, Germany was outselling UK DVD releases by a massive 4:1 ratio.
 
beez_andrew said:
[* The odds of Revelation or MVM being a distributor for them is about 0.01% for the record, you'll be looking at someone far more like Pinnacle (though not necessarily them).
Why do you say that? MVM has been distributing anime in the UK longer than ADV, isn't that a good enough track record for ADV? Surely with Funimation going to Revelation Films Tony would have more room to pick up ADV. Is there other reasons, or obstacles, preventing that happening that we don't know about? And who is Pinnacle? I've never heard of them and I've been in the anime scene since 1999.
 
J_C_X said:
Anime is too niche in the UK right now, for example AnimeCentral was the least watched channel last week (according to BARB).
That is terrible, and after all that advertising they did in the TV guides and newspapers, and did you see their 10sec ad on Sky and ITV? No me neither. :roll: I had a guy in work who just happen to glance my desktop that has a picture of Saya from Blood + on it and asked me if it was from a game. I told him what and where it was from and he said out of the blue, I like that stuff too bad it's not on the tele, to which I clicked on AC's web site and showed him the channel. he said "I knew nothing about it, why didn't they advertise it?" Good question I said. :roll:
 
Mohawk52 said:
J_C_X said:
Anime is too niche in the UK right now, for example AnimeCentral was the least watched channel last week (according to BARB).
That is terrible, and after all that advertising they did in the TV guides and newspapers, and did you see their 10sec ad on Sky and ITV? No me neither. :roll: I had a guy in work who just happen to glance my desktop that has a picture of Saya from Blood + on it and asked me if it was from a game. I told him what and where it was from and he said out of the blue, I like that stuff too bad it's not on the tele, to which I clicked on AC's web site and showed him the channel. he said "I knew nothing about it, why didn't they advertise it?" Good question I said. :roll:

According to BARB it only managed to pull 1,000 viewers a night and reached only 8,000 for the week. This is weird as the channel usually floats about a 100k a week could be a statistical error but I doubt it. I can't imagine it's ratings would plummet so quick, however since Bleach has been absent from the line up I have noticed that the figures have dropped significantly, just goes to show that Bleach is integral to AnimeCentral's line up.

Just going to start a bit of a debate here, it's difficult to find the Bleach dubs on Youtube does anyone else think this might be evidence that dubs/subs are hurting anime?
 
Just Passing Through said:
I'd be a mug to pay more for inferior product, no matter how much I want to support the UK industry.
Yes, which leads to the whole mess of problems we have.

The BBFC double dips do no favours (nevermind when things get cut), there's a rather vicious self repeating loop, for less costs, it needs to sell well but to sell well, it needs a competive price point but for less costs dot dot dot..., and there's a problem of "Reverse importation" where, much like how the Japanese industry has a problem with people importing, as it's been established; the better, cheeper product, the UK industry has the same issue.

So, someone's got to get to being more agressive or it's over, end of.
 
Mohawk52 said:
beez_andrew said:
[* The odds of Revelation or MVM being a distributor for them is about 0.01% for the record, you'll be looking at someone far more like Pinnacle (though not necessarily them).
Why do you say that? MVM has been distributing anime in the UK longer than ADV, isn't that a good enough track record for ADV?

I seem to remember MVM being involved in the original VHS release of Oh My Goddess, way back in 1993/94 (my memory is a little hazy), as well as Anime Projects/Animeigo, unless I'm thinking of the DVD re-release. :?

MVM has been quite the survivor, in some capacity.

Still got the Dominion Tank Police T-Shirt I bought from their mail order catalogue :D
 
Mohawk52 said:
beez_andrew said:
[* The odds of Revelation or MVM being a distributor for them is about 0.01% for the record, you'll be looking at someone far more like Pinnacle (though not necessarily them).
Why do you say that? MVM has been distributing anime in the UK longer than ADV, isn't that a good enough track record for ADV? Surely with Funimation going to Revelation Films Tony would have more room to pick up ADV. Is there other reasons, or obstacles, preventing that happening that we don't know about? And who is Pinnacle? I've never heard of them and I've been in the anime scene since 1999.

Basically because it's not financially viable. Funimation shifting their stock from MVM was in fact a blessing for a number of reasons (it's a long and NDA story).

MVM are a publisher, not a distribution partner - nor would they have any real interest as it doesn't benefit them greatly. The DVDs are branded ADV and they would have to handle a lot of questions, demands and changes in prices etc from ADV US that MVM would then need to relay onto _their_ distributor to do for retailers.

Regarding Pinnacle, I'm not surprised you haven't heard of them. They, like many companies in the DVD industry, are the "missing link". DVDs are not produced by them but they store everybody all the publisher's stock and arrange for it to be sent out to retailers and ensure that their portfolio's titles are included in promotions etc etc.

They distribute to retailers more than 60 different labels including ours and Revelation's:

http://www.pinnacle-vision.co.uk/labels/labels.php

They have no real contact with the people who buy DVDs in the street, so not everyone is aware of them. So that is what is meant by a distribution partner and why it is unlikely to the minute percentile that it is MVM or Revelation who will distribute.

Hopefully that fills in the gap there :).
 
MKT said:
Mohawk52 said:
beez_andrew said:
[* The odds of Revelation or MVM being a distributor for them is about 0.01% for the record, you'll be looking at someone far more like Pinnacle (though not necessarily them).
Why do you say that? MVM has been distributing anime in the UK longer than ADV, isn't that a good enough track record for ADV?

I seem to remember MVM being involved in the original VHS release of Oh My Goddess, way back in 1993/94 (my memory is a little hazy), as well as Anime Projects/Animeigo, unless I'm thinking of the DVD re-release. :?

MVM has been quite the survivor, in some capacity.

Still got the Dominion Tank Police T-Shirt I bought from their mail order catalogue :D
Well, MVM got into anime publishing after the English company for Bubblegum Crisis went under. Tony Allen was (and still is) running a shop and asked the US licensor (AnimEigo) what would happen to the title to which they replied, "why don't you pick up the licence?"

At least that was the way that Tony put it a couple of years back.
 
Basically because it's not financially viable. Funimation shifting their stock from MVM was in fact a blessing for a number of reasons (it's a long and NDA story).
Randomly swinging; confidence in the MVM company was non existant after being inable to make good on several shows that could of done fairly well (Kodocha and Dective Conan spring to mind), not geting shows that would of otherwise done gangbusters on tv (YYH) and the total ineptitude of the Sailor Moon releases?

Cuz Toei didn't even need to screw up our Sailor Moon release, it was just that bad. Read something about it almost puting them out of bussiness too.
 
beez_andrew said:
MVM are a publisher, not a distribution partner - nor would they have any real interest as it doesn't benefit them greatly.

Andrew, am I right in saying the key word in that sentence is "partner" ?

Just quoting from MVM's website:

MVM is unique in the UK Anime industry in it’s multi-level supply, acting as licensor, distributor, wholesaler and retailer.

So MVM are basically in-house for all but advertising (which is handled by the same third part advertising company as Manga Ent).

Is it true to say this is MVM's biggest strength? They run a tight ship, keeping costs low by handling all aspects of the licensing and distribution process efficiently with minimal manpower and labour overheads, whilst leaving the more expensive and labour intensive process of PR to a third party, or as is more the case, the fanbase (through sites such as this).

ADV UK spends a lot of money and manpower on a strong public face, be it running events and bringing guests over for expo and conventions, extensive website and social networking sites, and talks and presentations.
MVM's public exposure in comparison is very minimal (possibly their weakest point I'd say) and low key. (Beez I'd say is inbetween ;) )

I'd be interested just how much sales figures are effected either way by both approaches, as I still feel the work that ADV UK do (or did) is critical for keeping the fanbase alive.
Without those events at expo, without the social contact, does anime in the UK just become a flat import business rather than a vibrant and interesting experience? I'm open to thoughts and ideas either way ;)
 
Conan-san said:
Randomly swinging; confidence in the MVM company was non existant after being inable to make good on several shows that could of done fairly well (Kodocha and Dective Conan spring to mind), not geting shows that would of otherwise done gangbusters on tv (YYH) and the total ineptitude of the Sailor Moon releases?

I'll just say one comment I've heard from industry recently:
"MVM are picking up all the good shows nowadays"
 
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