ADV Films UK halt sale & distribution of select titles

[J_C_X]

Not sure what to think about all of this now, seems like there's a few different interpretations flying around, no doubt due to the PR's rather ambiguous statements. Fingers crossed everyone comes out of it okay.

However, when companies start using David Brent-esque phrases like "streamlined" and "customer-responsive", they are trying to divert attention from the base issue; stripping themselves down to the bare bones. For example, this is the first time I've read ADV referring to their UK base as a "US-run office outsourcing to retail partners", usually it's the "London office"; the obvious shift suggests they are trying to distance themselves from us.

Also, this phrase "yet-to-be-named local home entertainment group" (named as a "third-party distributor" in the sale PR) seems to make it clear that ADV will be dealing with an experienced distribution company like Revelation Films. To that end, the only way I can see the people of the UK side surviving all of this is if they switch over to an independently financed company that's completely separate from ADV and survives on its own terms.

Stupid question here.

If ADV do link up with Revelation, would this make it easier for television rights? Similar to Madman Entertainment in Australia.

 

[hopeful_monster]

Wonder how far ahead this has been planned. Reason I'm saying this is that they have been selling stock off cheaply for a while, and the stock they have been selling has been more the individual releases, and reducing the box sets to what you would find on either the high street or on-line.
Also since all the ones they are putting on Hiatus are their newer titles I doubt they will drop them, more likely do what Manga did with Noien. Stop with the individual releases and go for boxsets. It makes more sense from their side and for retailers.

 

[melonpan]

Anime on DVD have posted up a link to an articleon ICv2 with FUNimation's Gen Fukunaga.

It makes an interesting read about how FUNi are planning their future releases (no more single DVD's?)

The final question is relevant to us though:

You do business in Europe. What are the trends here vs. what you're seeing in Europe?

The UK has been a mediocre market for awhile (we only do the UK/Ireland territory in Europe). I think that has a more upside trend because it's more of a nascent state than the U.S. One of the issues in the UK is that titles often didn't get broadcast exposure, but now with the new world of Internet, you may not need any broadcast exposure, the Internet's good enough.

Jeez, we're nascent

So I'm late to the party, I just want to add another very important quote from that article.

There's obviously a shakeout in the anime producers -- Geneon not releasing, which was one of the biggest releasers in terms of SKUs in a year -- do you see the market headed to further consolidation?

I think that the market will further consolidate, absolutely. We perceive difficulties on the ADV side -- who knows what's going to happen there -- and then with Manga switching hands, nobody knows. How dedicated is Liberty to this genre, because it's probably not making that much money for them for the effort? There are a lot of questions out there right now.

It's rare for an industry member to do an interview and mention another company like this. Gen knows what he's talking about as well, this isn't just going to get better.

I've love to hear more about the VHS era and how ended up in a major slump with only a few companies left (as Andrew says).

History always repeats itself.

2008 brings doom and gloom it seems, all the economies around the world falling flat on their faces. On the Japanese media side of things - Geneon has gone - ADV have cut their TV broadcast service, dropped Newtype USA because the name costs too much, and stopped their ADVocates program, and now it seems they're changing the UK market.

Of course this seems to happen in every market, doesn't it? Up and down go the graphs of the stock market, up and down go the industries.

I don't study economics and business, but I'm sure I'm not being stupid when I say that it can't be impossible for things to move along steadily!

On the money side of things, if people didn't buy using money they don't have, there'd be no massive increase in interest rates until they peak and the economy can't seem to handle it and back down it goes. Sensible doesn't seem to be a word that is in use for business around the world.
Who really decides when an industry goes up and down, the media help greatly in showing a situation to be really good or really bad, so that is a catalyst in the whole up and down process. I bet there's some super secret organisation that is made up of the worlds leaders, who control everything! (not the government).

I don't expect many answers, but at least I've laid out some food for thought (and I must say it looks quite tasty).

EDIT: We need to look at the long-term of this. I want to know where the industry will be in a few years time, and I'm sure a lot of indutry-high-ups know where that will be.

 

[ConanThe3rd]

You know what, instead of tearing ADV a new asshole as should be right and just, just tell me where I can get Gurren Lagann over here and I'll leave this situation alone.
Course, I'd hate to be some sucker who bought seveal volumes of anime at £20xVolume who won't get the rest of the series right about now.

 

[Arbalest]

i knew things where bad as of late with several things but i didn't expect to see a company here starting to suffer that badly, though as i have said again, i'm not as up-to-date with the whole industry like some are. I thought that ADV where on the up again though what with the likes of Gurren Lagann on their catalogue along with several others, but then again i thought the same with Geneon with Black Lagoon and their distributions stopped in the US.
I hope though that when the official statement is made, it sheds a bit more light on the matter though, any more information that can clear the situation up would be great.

 

[fullmetalrose]

I really hope they don’t discontinue the single box releases for those titles! If told that the only way I can finish off a series (region 2) is to buy the box set I will be more than cross/upset. It certainly wouldn’t do anything to retain people’s loyalty to the UK anime DVD market if it was to happen…so am hoping that we will not have to wait to long to find out what is going on and that the anime series will still be released the same way as before! *crosses everything*

 

[Mohawk52]

There's far too much over reacting in this thread. ADV are just reorganising not going out of business. Lets look at the facts They have cut off their tv channels on both side which was running at far too much of a loss due to actual coverage and availability in the US, their largest market. So they had to stop the bleeding there, and are pioneering down the VOD trail instead. A smart move I think, and a look toward the future. They have basically changed the name of their magazine, and updated it in the process, but it's still there. Now they say,

the group is transitioning its UK operations from a US-run (UK) office outsourcing to retail partners, to a partnership with a yet-to-be-named local home entertainment group possessing both the track record and the forward planning to handle such a valuable library of international licenses.

That's telling me they are going to cut out the (UK) office and become a (US) supplier to, say for example, MVM to continue selling to the UK, though it may not be them eventually. Apologies Hugh if I'm miss reading that, but my condolances and thanks for everything if it's true. But by doing that ADV will still be selling their products here in the UK. So it's just a bit of rough road, not the end of the world as we know it, except for Hugh and co..

What was that campaign slogan that the US democrats used for Bill Clinton's election victory? Oh yeah,

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!

 

[ConanThe3rd]

If MVM gets ADV's libary, you can kiss any and all TV deals good bye and the disks will be regurgitated Austrialian presses.

If Relevation gets it, a £11 price point (at play) and path of least resitance to TV meets you.

 

[Gawyn]

If MVM gets ADV's libary, you can kiss any and all TV deals good bye and the disks will be regurgitated Austrialian presses.

If Relevation gets it, a £11 price point (at play) and path of least resitance to TV meets you.

And there we go again with another of Conan's irrational rants. The only anime distributed by Revelation that has been on TV has been Fullmetal Alchemist, which was on TV before they got the distribution rights to it and had absolutely nothing to do with them. Anime on TV generally is not handled by the (UK) distributors of the series but rather by the original Japanese companies.

 

[Fellistowe]

There's far too much over reacting in this thread. ADV are just reorganising not going out of business. ...... Apologies Hugh if I'm miss reading that, but my condolances and thanks for everything if it's true. But by doing that ADV will still be selling their products here in the UK. So it's just a bit of rough road, not the end of the world as we know it, except for Hugh and co..

*a disembodied voice embarrassingly whispers out from under the bed, where he's hiding...*

Again, I apologies that my initial comments have caused more commotion than I'd intended, but I do see a real loss to the anime community in *unconfirmedly* loosing people like Hugh and the guys at ADV UK.

From a business point of view, yes, it's a very good and financially sound idea to outsource your distribution to a subcontractor. It a lot of instances it works to great benefit, as your supposedly then using a body with good local market knowledge and contacts, who can handle local distribution efficiently. It may end up being a really great move for ADV.

The thing is, ADV already do have such people in ADV UK.
Hugh's and his team have been instrumental in driving the UK scene forward over the years, and he does know the UK well (although we do seem to have been vexing him recently...). This is a guy who was very graciously willing to come give a presentation at our local society, because he recognizes the value in UK fans. I can hardly describe how proud it makes us feel to be appreciated in such a way.

If we loose those people who are intimately tied to the UK industry, and policy instead becomes dictated from the US, who’s to say our interests will be best served? Can we say our tastes match those in the US so closely? (That’s a topical question in itself…)

The internet has given fans like us great power to use our voices (granted we use then for moaning most of the time, but…) and it’s not to be undervalued, but I still believe it is fundamental for the UK fanbase to have strong key public figures who can act as our voices to those people who matter.
We have such people too; look at Andrew Partridge (Beez), you all know how much he values your voices and takes time out to listen to you, and this is a guy who’s the one man band for Beez in the UK! I’d also point at Tony Allen (MVM) and Andrew Whelan (Tokyopop) too, both people I know work tirelessly to promote anime and manga in the UK. These are people who are fans of the medium, just as much as we are.

We’ve got great authors too, look at Helen McCarthy & Steve Kyte, or Jonathan Clements. These people have been pivotal in the formation of the UK anime scene (heck, I wouldn’t be such an anime nutbar if it wasn’t for Mr Clements appearing on the Sci-Fi channel), and I really think a lot of us are severely undervaluing such people nowadays.
Their extent of knowledge and experience is still key for the UK scene today as it was 10 years ago.

I know I’m still a novice to the UK scene compared to a lot of you out there (and boy does it show), but the more people I come into contact with the more I’m finding out just how rich and diverse our anime scene is. I really believe it shouldn’t be devalued or underestimated.

Or should I just shrug and go back to watching fansubs?

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Or should I just shrug and go back to watching fansubs?

If dems 'mericano types don't want my monies...

But honestly, if ADV wants to clear out thier business, jepidize thier disk numbers and piss off a lot of people who are still waiting for Keoro Gunsou and Gurren Lagann, that's thier deal.

By this point, I have decided that if they have the stuffs I want, I'll get it and if they want to throw thier toys out the pram, I'll just walk away.

 

[Wildcard]

This is disturbingly reminiscent of Geneon's demise... and Pumpkin Scissors was on that list, damn.

 

[Gawyn]

This is disturbingly reminiscent of Geneon's demise... and Pumpkin Scissors was on that list, damn.

Not particularly. In the case of Geneon they originally had a deal with ADV, which ultimately fell through at the last moment (and had nothing to do with the UK market). ADV have already signed a deal with another (as yet undisclosed) distributor and are in the process of transferring the distribution over to them. In the meantime they are releasing up the stock from their current warehouse before that is closed down - better to practically give it away and make some money on it rather than pay to have it destroyed. This is very reminiscent of the transition of distribution to Revelation from MVM that occurred last year when FUNimation switched distributors. MVM reduced all of their FUNimation back-catalogue at that time for very much the same reasons.

 

[Wildcard]

This is disturbingly reminiscent of Geneon's demise... and Pumpkin Scissors was on that list, damn.

Not particularly. In the case of Geneon they originally had a deal with ADV, which ultimately fell through at the last moment (and had nothing to do with the UK market). ADV have already signed a deal with another (as yet undisclosed) distributor and are in the process of transferring the distribution over to them. In the meantime they are releasing up the stock from their current warehouse before that is closed down - better to practically give it away and make some money on it rather than pay to have it destroyed. This is very reminiscent of the transition of distribution to Revelation from MVM that occurred last year when FUNimation switched distributors. MVM reduced all of their FUNimation back-catalogue at that time for very much the same reasons.

That's reassuring to know. Guess I'm just paranoid, though the halt of current releases is still a drag.

 

[silhouette-of-a-void]

Wow, there are some major changes happening at ADV .... I just wish they'd tell us that exactly was going on :/

What the hell is going on in the Anime industry?

Yeah, the UK anime industry is a little screwed up :/

In their defence, they aren't exactly having a good time of it right now. [...] with anime suffering from "zero worth" in the west (fansub)

My God! What the hell has happened today! One Day and the apocalypse is coming.

'Fan'sub downloads.

 

[MKT]

Looking back over the years it does seem to be a pattern, I remember when Manga Ent. went screwy after gaining a fair amount of popularity. ADV popped along and released some good quality Anime and then Manga seemed to go in convulsions, now we rarely see anything from them. Although since Naruto and GITS:SAC it's boosted their releases, I seem to remember for a couple of years they kind of disappeared almost completely. I don't think for a second ADV releases will never see the light of day, I imagine releases will just be more few and far between, so we'll just have to increase or threshold for patience again.

With all this talk of history repeating itself, I wonder if the UK has a strong enough market to support more than one or two Anime companies. You have to remember we are a niche within a niche, which must make us a nightmare to support. It'd be great to be able to sit down and choose to watch one of many 24/7 Anime channels on terrestrial, before deciding to nip down to a DVD shop to easily collect the latest Japanese releases, pop into my local newsagent and buy the latest issue of Afternoon or Young Magazine UK .... but I think even if (or when) Anime/Manga hits major mainstream, it'll never happen because I imagine we're too small.

The past 5 years or so has been pretty good in my eyes for Anime and Manga, we've had a few channels, Anime segments, Manga encompass an entire shop and a good share of high profile releases. If all the different Anime channels were combined into one maybe we would have truly had a 24/7 channel with a boat load of variety, if all UK releases came from one company, maybe they'd be strong enough to buy bigger and better series for a wider audience. Unfortunately business requires profit (apparently competition is good for the industry, so I'm told), and people need to pay their bills and our Anime industry seems a little scattered.

I'm not saying I don't appreciate things as they are, because right now I have quite a good degree of choice available, all I'm saying is there's probably a very good reason for all this happening again, maybe that needs to be addressed first, whatever it is. And yeah, I think very idyllic, maybe we can have world peace too.

...... oh and fansubs probably don't help either

 

[ConanThe3rd]

...... oh and fansubs probably don't help either

Maybe not, but If I had a box of things with a name it and you had no idea was in the box and you had to pay £20 to get it. I probably wouln't buy it without knowing what was inside the box.

It could be voltron for all I know.

 

[harkins]

I’m a little reluctant to say this as I fear we’re heading towards yet another ‘fan’sub download ethics’ debate. But as much against downloads as I am, (in the main), I don’t really believe that it makes that much difference to the UK market. Our current market is so small that I think the increased sales gained by an absence of downloading would be a drop in the puddle. I suspect a fairly high percentage of those who use fan’subs wouldn’t buy much anime anyway. They’re probably either too poor (students) or too tight.

The problem (assuming there actually is a problem) seems to me to be that anime is simply not very popular. So I guess we’ve just got to live with that and the consequences.

I also blame the Japanese. If they didn’t make the damned stuff we wouldn’t have an issue!

 

[MKT]

Our current market is so small that I think the increased sales gained by an absence of downloading would be a drop in the puddle.

I agree with you completely, I just brought up fansubs so I can be a turd

Out of curiosity, do many Japanese DVD releases include English subs? I've toyed with the idea of buying straight from Japan in the past, mainly because I might pick up some cool little freebies along the way. And I'm guessing the wait would be less than the US, or is that assumption incorrect?

Tank SWAT had an adorable paper model of the new Bonaparte tank.

 

[harkins]

Out of curiosity, do many Japanese DVD releases include English subs? I've toyed with the idea of buying straight from Japan in the past, mainly because I might pick up some cool little freebies along the way. And I'm guessing the wait would be less than the US, or is that assumption incorrect?

Tank SWAT had an adorable paper model of the new Bonaparte tank.

I don't know this as fact but I fancy the chances of Japanese DVD's having English subs is Zilch! There isn't really any point in them doing so. Besides, it would be an incredibly expensive way of owning anime. I remember seeing the Black Lagoon box set over there and the thirteen episodes were spread over 6 DVD's. That is typical over there.