Cogito Ergo Proxy simulwatch [RS] (29/11 - 21/12)

For anyone who might not be familiar with them, the things that the trio of old refugees were cooking on the griddle are mochi, very sticky Japanese rice cakes.

Episode 5
The first time I watched this show, I felt a real sense of genre whiplash around this point, as we've gone from urban cyberpunk to dystopian social satire. As former 'fellow citizens' of Romdo, it's sad but inevitable that the society the Commune has created is a virtual parody of Romdo in microcosm, with the group sinking into ever deeper delusions thanks to compulsive liar Hoody. The penny just never drops for them, no matter how over the top his lies because they all feed into their desperate need for hope and acceptance. Hoody, literally painted (thanks to Pino) more as a well-meaning but bumbling clown rather than a self-interested deceiver, can't help but tie himself in knots with deceptions that are a pale shadow of that holding Romdo together.

To Re-l it's all just background noise, of course. Despite realising last episode that Daedalus had been keeping information about proxies secret from her, she can't help but keep listening to him. He, and the manipulations of Romdo that he respresents at this point, are a literal voice in her head that she can't escape until she casts off the biohazard suit and the city's 'protection' with it.
 
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Episode 5

It's an interesting concept, despite the autoreivs being able to pass as human in what the say and do, Pino is unable to create. This is also a concept explored in Detroit: Become Human that I mentioned earlier. I'd encourage anyone who hasn't played it and likes this kind of thing to grab a copy, it's a choice based game where your actions/decisions impact the outcome.

Pino once again is central in the display of colour in this episode, the pictures being a bright source of colour in an otherwise grey and lifeless world.

The citizens are beginning to realise what I did last episode, the arrival of Vincent and the subsequent destruction of the drone are definitely precursors to more repercussions and trouble. Hoody adding lies upon lies trying to do good, but I could see how those lies would backfire on him pretty quickly.

Side note: does Quinn live in that wetsuit? seems... inconvenient to me.

I could tell that the figure was Re-l before she showed her face, no one else would have a reason to wander in like that, the Romdeau security department have shown they are far happier to send more drones in instead. Hoody must have been thanking his luck for circumstances to give him a plausible excuse to the previous lies.

The commune, as they seem to be called by the subs, are naive to say the least if they think they can go back. I can't believe that Vincent would leave Pino behind even though Re-l put no thought into bringing back Pino with them.

I'm trying to mentally digest the whole Proxy scene again, we saw Vincent fall and the Proxy come up, but we also later saw Vincent floating in the water, I wonder if the Proxy is capable of detaching from the host and acting independently.

Poor Pino, her only friend has been killed and she lacks the knowledge to know what is going on, her antics in this episode were again a highlight against a serious backdrop of events.
 
Gosh it's hard not to keep watching this show when you get going! Will bounce my thoughts off of others.
Welcome back for another episode of Smallville. Sorry, but you can never unhear that, though I much prefer the Ergo Proxy song (Kiri by Monoral).
Aaah blast from the past, I loved that Smallville opening (didn't that Mack lady get busted for some sex cult/ring thing?) but yes the Ergo Proxy one is better, what a tune. The movie-like direction that has been mentioned, and three opening and closing credits definitely add a Western flavour, in the way that Blood: The Last Vampire from the recent simulwatch felt.
"I am amazing! Dont you think so Vince?" Pino is such good value in this episode. I love the way she learns by mimicry. Especially when she copying the doctors laugh- coughs included.
Pino is utterly adorable and her mimicry is identical to how a toddler learning behaviours around them would interact, with all that fitting very well with a newly sentient being capable of significant intelligence adapting to the world around them. That cough-laughing was hilarious indeed - impressive work from the VA to make that sound genuine! Though she seems lacking in the imagination department when juxtaposed with her human toddler friend. Those two were so cute when driving Hoody insane during the "negotiations" heheh. I hope that Pino can continue being a ray of sunshine in this dreary landscape despite the loss of her friend...
it's clear that they're trying to convince themselves they're happy with their lot to avoid giving in to despair at being cast out
Like a spurned suitor claiming "Bah!! I never liked them anyway!!", until they get very excited at the prospect of being asked to return heh. The way Hoody happily hoodwinked them, in spite of Quinn's efforts to inject clarity, were very amusing. The sheep being herded either way between the two made for good comedy heh. Hoody must have been a failed small-time politician, chucked out though possessing the prerequisite compulsion for lying, due to just being too incompetent when using it for those with a tad more sense than the desperate Commune denizens. He certainly had some interesting things to say about Proxys, but is immediately & repeatedly shown to be so unreliable that it's difficult to know which of his spiel to believe.
Hope you guys like the new topical avatar pic.
Brilliant!
Daedalus being voiced by a female VA in Japanese is also no different from Shinji. It's actually quite common practice to have an adolescent male whose voice hasn't broken yet be voiced by a woman.
Yeah that's what I was thinking that it was a male character with a female VA. Quite accustomed to that now heh, though I didn't think Daedalus was meant to be that young.
Did you notice that when she gained self-awareness, her hair started to be coloured a quirky purple instead of its original drab brown?
There was such a change in personality that despite this being obvious, it didn't even register for me!
The commune lives in this bizarre sense of delusion that parallels the people of Romdeau. It seems that no one is really living their lives anywhere. Inside the dome they do what they're told fed endless propaganda by the powers that be and outside Hoodie has just taken up that role for the commune.
Spot on and there was that great line from Hoody that fits nicely with how the truth is not necessarily what everyone needs to be happy.
"Discerning the truth from the lie might be the right thing to do, but it won't always make you happy."
Yeah that one heh.
a dead, grey world as a backdrop, can't help but put me in mind of our future simulwatch target Casshern Sins
Whatever one could say about Romdeu, at least it feels like a potential safe haven from the lifeless world outside, whereas I felt Casshern Sins was a lot more bleak with a dying world with absolutely nowhere that would be left untouched by rust and decay.
Despite realising last episode that Daedalus had been keeping information about proxies secret from her, she can't help but keep listening to him. He, and the manipulations of Romdo that he respresents at this point, are a literal voice in her head that she can't escape until she casts off the biohazard suit and the city's 'protection' with it.
You've got to use whatever resource, however untrustworthy, whilst possible especially when so restricted in your activities and under constant surveillance. Daedalus seems to have his own agenda, to be king maybe? He doesn't seem much impressed with not being entirely in the loop and up to his own machinations using Re-l. Was her passing out at the end genuine and physiological or was it psychological/psychosomatic or worse yet: induced?
Detroit: Become Human
Think I got this via the psplus subscription but I can see it lounging on my playlist for a good while still sadly. Is it meant to be like, or made by the team that did Heavy Rain? That was a gooood game.
Side note: does Quinn live in that wetsuit? seems... inconvenient to me.
That's commitment to fanservice I guess heh.
I wonder if the Proxy is capable of detaching from the host and acting independently.
It made me think of what Hoody was saying about them being able to "possess" others. Somehow though I don't think we're going to be changing genre to fantasy heh.

Right when can I watch some more arrggghh!?!
 
Think I got this via the psplus subscription but I can see it lounging on my playlist for a good while still sadly. Is it meant to be like, or made by the team that did Heavy Rain? That was a gooood game.

The very same team, and you'll be happy to hear they've amped up the graphics and the atmosphere even more. The 3d work with the characters is impressive as they went full motion capture basically, and it follows along some of the same kind of ideas as this show does so far which prompted me to mention it :)
 
Episode 6
I'd forgotten about the twist in this episode, so it was interesting to get fooled by it again! Hoody shows once and for all that he's had the good of others in mind as he pulls off one last great deception, while the viewer is also fooled into thinking that Vincent abandoned Pino.

It's interesting to hear Raul speak of his emotions being controlled even as they're clearly running out of control. This begs the question of whether the automated authorities have as much influence over people as they believe. They seem oblivious to the fact that he would be suffering any kind of trauma, fixating solely on sterile surveillance of his biometrics.
 
Episode 6

Poor Pino, She's acting like she's still playing hide and seek with Timothy, but she doesn't quite get why she can't find him 😢

With Daedalus here, is he obsessed with Re-l then, to be watching videos of her it seems like it? It's odd seeing an actual happy Re-l (and more colours present) as she is never shown to be happy before now.

I admit I was tricked by the twist here, I assumed that they'd gone and forgotten about Pino, and further I thought that maybe Quinn would use her as a shield or part of the fight, but on both counts I was wrong.

In a way I think Hoody had the last laugh, he got to where he wanted to get to, back inside the Dome. Quinn on the other hand appears to have died in her favourite outfit, the wetsuit, but both achieved their goals (one to get back to the Dome, the other to Leave the commune behind).

The deception ultimately served to save the inhabitants of the ship as well, with the drones being called off when they thought they had Vincent.

I wonder what Vincent and Pino will discover on the next leg of their journey?
 
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More mysteries regarding the habitability of the world outside the Dome and the need to acclimatize (unless you're Vincent) to whatever in the environment is toxic, such as an infection as is suggested, though Hoody throws some doubt on that by questioning there ever being truth to a vaccine for said infection. So did the rest at the commune just adapt with time? The associated fear of the world outside another likely control mechanism for the Romdo authorities, who are implied to be manipulating people's emotions, if they are even people that is and not just more advanced/human-like autorievs with circulatory systems and sentience granting viruses. Pino continues to learn to be more human while Vincent and Hoody pull the old switcheroo. Hoody, with some apparent knowledge of the secrets surrounding proxies, must be aware of and believe in Vincent's potential to want to sacrifice himself for him. A journey beyond Romdo begins for Vincent & co and the authorities can't at present seem to be able to pursue them (maybe they never got a chance to sort out EV range anxiety before climate catastrophe hit).

Hoody was clearly thrown out for nicking the toy soldier from the Romdo clock tower. Quinn's wetsuit was sadly not made with Kevlar. And I'm starting to suspect that Re-l isn't a cat girl at all and rather a diclonius that will be opening a can of whoop-ass on the Romdo foos any minute now.
 
Hoody was clearly thrown out for nicking the toy soldier from the Romdo clock tower. Quinn's wetsuit was sadly not made with Kevlar. And I'm starting to suspect that Re-l isn't a cat girl at all and rather a diclonius that will be opening a can of whoop-ass on the Romdo foos any minute now.

I feel like the lack of Kevlar in that wetsuit was a fatal design flaw! :)

Looking forward to seeing Diclonius cat girl Re-l in action :cool:

There is definitely some manipulation of the humans inside the dome. As a bit of a stab maybe the world went to crap when human emotions caused a massive war that destroyed the ecosystem, so the dome is the attempt to build a utopia where human emotions are kept in check and everyone is monitored all the time to prevent a repeat.

The immigrants are interesting, because it's implied that people like Vincent are immigrants from somewhere else inside the dome, given his confusion was to what life was like outside the dome.
 
Episodes 4-6
The story slows right down from the hectic opening episodes. We learn a bit about the outside world and meet some new people, most of which are dead by the end of the 6th episode, but virtually nothing about the central mystery of the Proxies. We learn that they can die, but seemingly only at the hands of another and that they possess people, so rather than Vincent transforming the Proxy jumps out of him, although IIRC he woke up with blood on him after a Proxy attack previously, so that still seems unclear.

Those in charge of the dome don't seem bothered at all about finding ways to make the outside world better by just continually dumping waste outside and encouraging people to make more. Bit of on the nose environmentalism, even I can't miss that 😅
 
As a bit of a stab maybe the world went to crap when human emotions caused a massive war that destroyed the ecosystem, so the dome is the attempt to build a utopia where human emotions are kept in check and everyone is monitored all the time to prevent a repeat.
Hmmm, you're good at this speculation business, aren't you? 😏

Moving on...


Episode 6

"Pino, when a person dies, you never see them again."


I chose that line in bold there as my key quote from this episode, but there's another line that I've loved from the moment I first heard it, and it's always stayed with me, even to the point that I absorbed it into my way of living. It's Daedalus: "I'm not so naive as to show a card I haven't been asked for."

I'd forgotten about the twist in this episode, so it was interesting to get fooled by it again!
I admit I was tricked by the twist here
I was fooled by the switch-a-roo
Yeah, that was the most important development in this episode.

I mean, I've seen this series twice before, myself, so...

Nah, I still got tricked by it as well. 😅

It's because the storyboarding is so skillful, though. We see Vincent flying the craft, but that was only to set it down where Re-l could be loaded into it.

The misdirection also continues into a bit of Vincent's dialogue. The English subs do a brilliant job but can't help but slightly telegraph that it's Re-l herself rather than Re-l and Vincent who are going back to Romdeau. The actual Japanese dialogue, though, is very clever. You see, Japanese as a language will routinely omit things from sentences that are already felt to be understood in context, so what Vincent actually says to the unaware Re-l is:

"Romdeau e kaeru n' da yo, Re-l-san."

This transliterates as "Going home to Romdeau, Re-l." The sentence doesn't specify whether it's you, I or we, but Vincent already understands this in context. Because we as viewers weren't privy to Vincent and Hoody's discussion where they must've formulated their plan, though, we would wrongly assume that Vincent meant "we". Very clever.

And lastly for episode 6, to an observer, Hoody met a sad demise, but he really didn't see it that way himself. Oh, and...
Hoody was clearly thrown out for nicking the toy soldier from the Romdo clock tower.
🤣👍👍
 
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Oh, and...
Hoody was clearly thrown out for nicking the toy soldier from the Romdo clock tower.
🤣👍👍
Was thinking about this earlier. Could quite possibly be true. Minor misdemeanours get you exiled whilst I'm guessing more serious stuff probably gets you executed. Bit like the British Empire with the convict ships to Australia with crime as small as pickpocketing getting you a one way ticket.
 
Episode 7
There's a lot of tease in this one, with many conversations that seem on the verge of explaining things clearly before veering off into vagueness or silence at the critical moment. We do find out that proxies are considered closer to gods than monsters, though the implications of that aren't fully explored yet. Every step that Real takes forward leads into a world stranger and more unconfortable than she expected. Meanwhile, the cogito virus is weaponised (supposedly by Raul), but the purpose of the attempted assassination is unclear. Is this infighting between bureaus, an attempt to stop investigation of the dead proxy, or something else?
 
Episode 7

The outside looks very dead, it's obvious the crew of the vehicle are ill prepared for the expedition, but I can forgive the oversight due to lack of time and inability to know what to prepare for ahead of time. The destination "Mosk dome?" sounds like it's been ravaged already, perhaps their systems failed, or perhaps the two domes had a micro-war and the Mosk one lost it. In any case I am not sure they'll find much there except more clues, and maybe supplies.

It's becoming clearer that Re-l is not just a person, but is made somehow. Most likely answer is she is a clone. The dome city appears to function a bit like an ark preserving life, perhaps until outside conditions can recover enough.

Further this leads me to believe that the Re-l we saw Daedalus watching is not the same one we have now. We don't quite get all of the answers out of Daedalus before they are attacked.

It's good to see Iggy actually doing something useful for once 🤣

We see the death certificate for this Re-l but I'm guessing it's either a fake to throw people off the trail and make them think she's dead, or she's actually dead and we get a new Re-l clone instead. In either case I don't think this is the last we'll see of Re-l.
 
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