Cogito Ergo Proxy simulwatch [RS] (29/11 - 21/12)

[Geriatric hedgehog]

And then poor little Pino. It's like shes the only one to react as she turns back towards her brother only to be knocked aside as Vincent and the Proxy pass and then we see her in the pose to awakening. What a soul crushing moment to achieve self awareness; just as you watch your mother and brother get killed in front of you and you couldnt save them. And now the authorities are after her too and just wants her dad to come home

That scene with her at the end was especially heartbreaking after all that had just passed.

The little kid with the baby and mother was kind of creepy there for a minute, but later on we see the opposite, where she went to get a balloon for the kid.

I thought she looked very sinister as well but the show does a great job of demonstrating the difference emotional expression makes in our perception given how different the autorievs come across with the Turing app on (that app is by far THE most advanced invention I have ever seen in any sci-fi medium and I very much want it implanted in my head for those early morning school drop-off parent chats, or better yet a way to switch that function off in other parents heheh!)

What the hell, I don't get Radiohead for the ED in the French edition, this is horseshiit man.

I was wondering with the first episode if this ED was unique to the English release and whether it would have been used in Japan as well, but the choice seemed so spot on that I thought that surely it would be in every release. Sad to hear that isn't the case...

@Lordhippos they did that thing with Vincent where a character usually has their eyes shut and when they open them, it means shiit's getting real and they're not so harmless after all [giddy~ - I love that stupid trope lol],

Hahaha that is brilliant. I am going to try it out in real life (and open my eyes when the next parent talks about the weather) though in all likelihood am far more likely to just get run over on the road...

Romdeau is perhaps reminiscent of the city of Olympus from Appleseed

It does have a closed off feel doesn't it and makes me wonder what on earth the world is like outside the city.

@Neil.T just a moody bit from the OST

Damn, I'm sleeping on the wheel. Like, yeah, something was off about Raul during that whole scene but I hadn't made the connection that it was actually his family.

Love feeling dumb like this

I'd completely missed that as well until I read @Neil.T's comment (thanks for the extra info by the way @Neil.T, it all very nicely adds useful background info) but yeah the wife had definitely mentioned that in passing. Hiding in plain sight indeed. Loving how well this series does "show don't tell" with the exposition and so incredibly efficiently!

Can't say I can think of anything to add to episode 2 and will try to watch 3 tonight but that is likely to get bumped to tomorrow sadly.

 

[Dai]

Episode 3
Welcome back for another episode of Smallville. Sorry, but you can never unhear that, though I much prefer the Ergo Proxy song (Kiri by Monoral).

There's not a whole lot to discuss plotwise this episode since it's mostly a (very good) chase sequence, aside from the statues having a very cryptic conversation among themselves (with our first ominous mention that something bad might happen if the city loses its raison d'etre). We also see that Raul isn't the emotionless pillar he might present himself as, though he's so emotionally repressed that he's practically making that piano key scream on his behalf.

Pino is the real star of this episode, casting off her creepy surveillance-bot programming to become straight up adorable. The other stand-out element in this episode is the sound design. With less dialogue this time we really get to hear those rumbling, ambient soundscapes for each location, and distinctive sounds like the whir of the mech suits or the synth-esque whine of the car engines. It's movie-level sound design in a TV series really.

 

[João Gomes]

@Geriatric hedgehog the worst part about the ED is that it's right there in the credits!! Paranoid Android, Colin Greenwood, Jonny Greenwood, etc.

Since the first couple of episodes didn't have an OP I was like "oh, ok, I'm sure it's just for these two". Then I skipped ahead one episode, two, four. Nothing. Gutted, urgh.

Gotta say, the way the text is laid out in the ED is so deliciously stylish, whew.

Do report on your fox-eyes social experiment, lol

Is it tomorrow yet? I could do with episode 4 right now

 

[Lordhippos]

Episode 3

This is the Pino show

All of the little Pino moments were really endearing, especially with how she was wearing that damn costume and just leading events almost without seeming like she knew she was.

One of the biggest things here was the expansion of the world into the outside as well, previously we just knew the city, now we also get a glimpse that there is more. I wonder what kind of atmosphere the outside must have to make it dangerous to leave that door open, and indeed the pressure difference must be large for them to literally be dragged outside by it.

We get a feeling for the fact the city must be fairly high up as well due to the distance that Vincent seemed to be falling. As a proxy presumably he won't die and we'll see more of him later.

I really wanted to find out more about what he was going to say to Re-l but that one was cut short by the turn of events. What will Pino do now I wonder? She is outside all alone, but I am not convinced she's going to jump off like Vincent did, maybe she'll turn that sack into a parachute and float away.

Damn, I'm sleeping on the wheel. Like, yeah, something was off about Raul during that whole scene but I hadn't made the connection that it was actually his family.

Love feeling dumb like this

I actually missed that detail too and was a bit confused, thought he was experiencing shock.

 

[HWR]

I’ve now caught up to episode 3 and the story is suitably engaging from the get go here. I’m loving the aesthetic and atmosphere which lends well to the overall narrative. Episode 3 also sees the debut of the main theme Kiri by Monoral, which is a great song and one that’s been in rotation on my playlist for years.

 

[D1tchd1gger]

Episodes 1-3
Watched this about 4 years ago in English. Watching in Japanese in the hope that it will shed more light on the mystery as I remember being confused at the end.

These episodes are pretty self explanatory though. Although like others I seem to have missed some details. But I'm not alone it seems:

@Neil.T just a moody bit from the OST

Damn, I'm sleeping on the wheel. Like, yeah, something was off about Raul during that whole scene but I hadn't made the connection that it was actually his family.

Love feeling dumb like this

then this series does a great job of leaving key details, as @Dai so succinctly put it, "hidden in plain sight"

Yeah, seems like a lot of these type of shows do stuff like this.
I'm here for the entertainment not to pause the show every so often to find clues, tell me don't hide stuff even in plain site. Having said that I half got the link when he plays the piano. I'm like "wasn't that in the new mothers place?" But then I'm like "meh, I'm sure it's not important because it's not being made completely obvious"
I'm looking forward to @Neil.T explaining stuff as we go along

The opening text relates to a sculpture known as Night, by Michaelangelo.

Beat me to it. I thought I have to find out what that says and found that Wikipedia page.

"Wait, that one?!"

I was thinking this one:

Third guess: "Nightmare Quiz Show" (Who Wants to Be in Jeopardy!)

The only one that really stood out and that I still recall apart from the opening episodes.

forgotten how immediately this show gets on with things.

Although

Spoiler: Memories of first watch

It slows right down once they are outside. They stay in a shanty town, go on a road trip that ends up revealing little (apart from said episode), turn around and go back to the city for a confusing ending!

Episode 3 also sees the debut of the main theme Kiri by Monoral, which is a great song and one that’s been in rotation on my playlist for years.

Same.

 

[WMD]

Episode 4

"I am amazing! Dont you think so Vince?" Pino is such good value in this episode. I love the way she learns by mimicry. Especially when she copying the doctors laugh- coughs included.

The sequence at the start where Vincent is in a delirious state was brilliantly put together and really gives a window into his state of mind and insecurities. I think the alphabet cereal spelt Misfit this time (but I havent gone back to check) which really shows how he feels about himself. No matter where he goes he feels like an outsider, even on the outside.

The outside world is an interesting place. People claiming to be free whilst being totally dependent on Romdeau's waste to survive. Effectively trading one prison for another. And now Raul knows he's survived the trip outside!

 

[Dai]

Episode 4
Vincent goes from a place that shunned him to one that claims to accept him, but everything these people say rings hollow, and it's clear that they're trying to convince themselves they're happy with their lot to avoid giving in to despair at being cast out. This doesn't feel like a place Vincent could stay without rusting away inside like these people and all the detritus from Romdo that they rely on. Only Hoody and Quinn seem to have all their marbles at first glance.

 

[João Gomes]

Marry someone who smiles at you the way Vince-chan smiled at that drone he destroyed. I'm so eager to learn more about this guy.

Between Vincent and Raul, I can't wait to see how they play off of each other. Raul's misery is a sight to behold!

 

[Lordhippos]

Episode 4

Hope you guys like the new topical avatar pic. I don't have PS installed to chop out the background bits sadly or I'd put her on a dark grey background I reckon.

Pino once again providing the lighter entertainment in an otherwise dreary grey world where there is very little to be happy about.

A bit of trivia for people, the poet that Hoody was reading from the book was from Carcassonne, which is itself a real and interesting place. Carcassonne is in the south of France and is famous for it's medieval walls and setting, indeed there is even a board game named after it (that is actually quite good fun) that features building roads/castles/chapels in a medieval setting. Looks pretty cool right? https://www.tourism-carcassonne.co.uk/

Seeing the outside was really cool, the domed city of Romdeau is quite the sight to behold. I wonder though what the rest of the world is like, these people that leech off the city are clearly not that happy about living in squalor, they may be free but I agree with the sentiment expressed, most if not all of them would probably re-enter the city if they were able to.

Quinn is an interesting character, and at least she seems to show signs that she isn't happy with just existing like this.

Am not sure I trust this Daedalus, will have to see if she goes running to grandpa to tell him all about Re-l's investigation. Putting the pieces together, it seems this proxy met it's fate presumably at the hands of Vincent's proxy form which we haven't yet been shown him turning into.

I think Vincent taking out the drone was a misstep, but also how no one told him about the drone was also weird, it's like they know to run from it and the schedule is the same time each day, but they neglected to mention it. Funny how Raul seemed to actually get excited about something for once, usually he seemed indifferent, even seeing the death of his wife and child didn't seem to make him pause.

 

[WMD]

Am not sure I trust this Daedalus, will have to see if she goes running to grandpa to tell him all about Re-l's investigation.

I see Daedalus is voiced by a woman in Japanese but is voiced by a man in English and is described as he on wiki. I'm guessing @Neil.T can give some clarity as to the sort of language used around them in the Japanese.

Having always watched in English he has always been very clearly male to me.

 

[Lordhippos]

I see Daedalus is voiced by a woman in Japanese but is voiced by a man in English and is described as he on wiki. I'm guessing @Neil.T can give some clarity as to the sort of language used around them in the Japanese.

Having always watched in English he has always been very clearly male to me.

It's an odd one, feminine man, or not very feminine woman, I guess I went off the voice a little bit as well.

 

[Birdie Num Num]

Just a quick post. I've finally had the chance and started watching this. I'm all caught up.

Episodes 1-4
Definitely getting the Blade Runner vibes, with a grey cityscape. I'm liking it so far. When the statues first appeared, I was sure I saw one move then an episode later, all their heads moved so I wasn't crazy.
I forgot that the Chief's wife was the one who died with the baby, I didn't put it together until reading through these posts. Now it makes the slow motion scene of him just watching all the more sad and disturbing.
One fact is for certain, everyone needs to protect Pino.

 

[Lordhippos]

One fact is for certain, everyone needs to protect Pino.

 

[Neil.T]

Yeah, seems like a lot of these type of shows do stuff like this.

I'm sure I wouldn't know what you mean by "these types of shows" or "stuff like this", but I guess it depends on what you find entertaining.

For my own part, I reckon I'm drawn to things that feel to me like they have some good depth.

I'm looking forward to @Neil.T explaining stuff as we go along

I'll give it my best shot, dude. I'm sure others will pick up things that I'll miss as well, though.

I see Daedalus is voiced by a woman in Japanese but is voiced by a man in English and is described as he on wiki.
...
Having always watched in English he has always been very clearly male to me.

He definitely is. In Japanese, he speaks like a teenage boy would, using boku as his personal pronoun, much like Shinji in Evangelion.

Daedalus being voiced by a female VA in Japanese is also no different from Shinji. It's actually quite common practice to have an adolescent male whose voice hasn't broken yet be voiced by a woman.

As for the character's trustworthiness or otherwise within the story... we'll have to wait and see.

It's great to see that y'all are enjoying Pino. I do too. She's indeed like a little ray of sunlight in all the gloom. Did you notice that when she gained self-awareness, her hair started to be coloured a quirky purple instead of its original drab brown? This is far from the last time we'll see a change in character being reflected in an actual character design.

Outside of the series, a couple of trips to the cinema have seen me fall a couple of episodes behind. I'll quickly catch back up with you lucky people who've just seen episodes 3 and 4.

 

[Lordhippos]

For my own part, I reckon I'm drawn to things that feel to me like they have some good depth.

Yep, depth is very important to me as well, I want to feel like the creators have thought about details at least to some degree.

Shallow shows don't tend to work too well with me, even easy going stuff I want a little depth to it.

 

[WMD]

Episode 5

We've had mention of the use of colour but the opening here with the kids drawing really nails that point. So much colour and hopeful brightness on a small piece of paper in a dreary grey and lifeless world.

What an episode. Hoodies lies just build and build and the arrival of Re-l really throws a spanner into the works of his plan to just ride things out. You have to respect his gall to just carry on and treat Re-l as if she is this negotiator hes been talking to when he knows no such person exists.

The commune lives in this bizarre sense of delusion that parallels the people of Romdeau. It seems that no one is really living their lives anywhere. Inside the dome they do what they're told fed endless propaganda by the powers that be and outside Hoodie has just taken up that role for the commune.

What a sad end to Pinos first real friendship, an end she doesn't even understand. She's so good at mimicry and pretty much anything she tries but imagination still illudes her. A lack of imagination being something helping to keep the people of Romdeau subservient, whereas an overactive imagination is trapping the people of the commune.

 

[Neil.T]

Catching up...

Episode 3

Three episodes in, we get our first play of the opening, which for my money is one of the most stirring in anime.

For some quickfire observations, Pino seems a little fuzzy on her name, as if she was hearing it for the first time here. She must be learning some things for the first time after attaining a sense of self.

Also, I spotted an unfortunate spelling mistake on Re-l's citizen ID card. I won't say anything more than that for now, though.

There was another bit of cryptic dialogue from The Collective, our quartet of statues: "The citizens are all modelled on pre-arranged information."

Hmmm...

And Jiminy Cricket, I've only just clocked for the first time that Lacan is voiced in Japanese by none other than Atsuko Tanaka, who you all know better as Motoko Kusanagi in the original Ghost in the Shell and its follow-up, Innocence.


Episode 4

"Discerning the truth from the lie might be the right thing to do, but it won't always make you happy."

The words we hear during Vincent's delirium come from a real-life figure:

Joë Bousquet was a French poet. Bousquet was born in Narbonne. Wounded on 27 May 1918 at Vailly near the Aisne battlelines at the end of the First World War, he was paralysed for the rest of his life, and lived a life largely bedridden, surrounded by his books.​

Joë Bousquet - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Also, the two AutoReivs that Re-l's worried about being overheard by while in the company of Daedalus are named after another pair of philosophers:

Gilles Deleuze was a French philosopher who, from the early 1950s until his death in 1995, wrote on philosophy, literature, film, and fine art. His most popular works were the two volumes of Capitalism and Schizophrenia: Anti-Oedipus and A Thousand Plateaus, both co-written with psychoanalyst Félix Guattari.​

Gilles Deleuze - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Pierre-Félix Guattari was a French psychoanalyst, philosopher, semiologist, activist and screenwriter. He co-founded schizoanalysis with Gilles Deleuze​

Félix Guattari - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

(As an aside, the mix of dense text and fragmented visuals can't help but put me in mind of the Studio 4°C short film "Limit Cycle".)

There's one more real-world reference to be found in this episode. Daedalus, after seeing the corpse of the Proxy that had been chasing Vincent, remarks that its "Amrita cells" were supposed to have been indestructible. Well...

"Amrita" is a Sanskrit and Pali word that means "immortality". It is a central concept within Indian religions and is often referred to in ancient Indian texts as a nectar.​

Amrita - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Going back to the start of the episode, wow, Vincent's a changed man!
He's drawn with a squarer jawline and more-rugged features. It's perhaps the strongest example yet of the "distinctive visual language" @Dai has already referred to. After that, though, Vincent's slapped his hair back down into a side parting, indicating that he still has the mindset of trying to be neat and tidy and conformist.

And lastly, not meaning to spoil anything, the sight and sound of Pino playing the melodica she found in amongst the junk tossed out of Romdeau will become one of this series' motifs. And we hear another of those for the first time in Raul's catchphrase of contentment with the current state of affairs. "Beautiful."

 

[João Gomes]

Episode 5

Another fun one. Seeing these already down in the dumps people being hunted down is sad, ending with that kid's fate.

I hope there's a reason why Re-l is so intent on finding out more about Vincent and why it provokes such an emotional response in her.

As for the beast proxy, I'm guessing there's more to it than it simply being Vincent because they sure as hell aren't in a hurry to admit to it, while at the same time making it kinda hard to see it otherwise. Was the old man spouting gibberish or was there a bit of truth mixed in, when talking about proxys? Guess we'll see.

 

[Neil.T]

Caught up now.

Episode 5

"Lies lead to more lies, and at some point, I'm afraid there's no going back. It's a tragic thing, being human."

The start of this episode, where we get to know a couple of engaging strangers with a dead, grey world as a backdrop, can't help but put me in mind of our future simulwatch target Casshern Sins. Absolutely wonderful stuff.

Some bullet-pointed observations now:

• For anyone who might not be familiar with them, the things that the trio of old refugees were cooking on the griddle are mochi, very sticky Japanese rice cakes.

• Next we have the name of Hoody's mythical vehicle. Again, the name's drawn from real life:

In Mexica mythology, the Centzon Tōtōchtin [lit. "four hundred rabbits"] are a group of divine rabbits who meet for frequent drunken parties.​

Centzon Tōtōchtin - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Basically, they're Mexican gods.

• What a relief when we realise that the mysterious figure in the hazmat suit is Re-l, and what a hilarious site Hoody is in a dead-serious setting with his face scribbled on! That was Pino's work for sure.

Then there's the book with Hoody's face on... and the soldier figure inside Pino's onesie... These kids are great value!

• The part where Vincent snaps at Re-l "That's not what I mean!" has had to be rather creatively subtitled. In Japanese, what he yells is "Sō ja nai!" ("Not like that!"), which coming from someone of his social standing and directed at someone of Re-l's would be considered by many to be unacceptably abrupt, so he adds desu to the end to belatedly try to soften the blow. It's a sentence ending used in Japanese when speaking in less casual situations, including with one's superiors.

The subtitles just have Vincent speak the beginning of his next sentence before abruptly stopping.

• The shootout with Vincent and Re-l versus the surveillance craft has a brilliantly uncertain flow to it. It was really impossible to say whether they were going to be able to save Vincent from falling; it could've gone either way. He's a real crack shot with that little pistol of his, though; I'll grant him that.

• Come the end of the episode, the chain reaction set in motion by Vincent's arrival ends in tragedy. Timothy was gunned down by the bot in everyone's absence.