Personally I buy so much from US nowadays as soon as it is released I really could not tell what was licensed here. It is a shame though that the UK market is so small some really nice niche shows like Aria will likely never make it here. I think the general public are still too stuck in the the kiddy and girly shows are for little girls and the action shows are for little boys, not realising there is so much more available than just the hacked up stuff that appears on kids channels.
Y'know, at times, it sucks to be an anime fan in the UK.
- Thread starter Aion
- Start date
unellmay said:
I will go off and check the current TV listings for shows as I don't watch much TV nowadays. But just putting things in children's slots on main channels and on kids channels, shows the general population are never going to get out of the "cartoons are for kids mindset".
Well aside from Anime Central and Anime Network last year, the kids channels have always had a "edited" anime on at some point. Fox Kids/Jetix had Naruto, Shaman King, Medabots (which is now on another channel) and in the past it even had shows like Monster Rancher, Shinzo, Technoman (also known as Tekkaman Blade). Niclodeon/Nic Toons showed a bit as well but mainly Cardcaptors and Yugioh/Yugioh GX/ Yugioh 5Ds. Cartoon Network only show Bakugan Brawlers but in the past it had more anime then everyone else especailly in the days of CNX/Toonami with all the Dragonball shows, The Big O, Gundam Wing, Various Tenchi shows, that baddly edited One Piece show, Beyblade...And back when CNX first started it showed Cowboy Bebop and Outlaw Star. I think that's it.
Aion
Time-Traveller
Well, fukkaru. This thread has grown quite a bit since I lost looked.
If Manga continue to sell lots of their double disc sets and become even more well known than they are already, I'd like to see them attempt to step up by licensing something that isn't a simple shounen title. I think their name has spread further now than ever before, with TGWLTT still selling very well and Death Note still selling so well that the prices of the first volumes have actually gone up. With every new title they license, the more followers they get at present.
Once they reach a stage where even normal people buy their releases because they're cheap and look interesting - which doesn't seem to be far off - they can afford to gamble on at least a couple of titles. In the past anime being over-priced has been a serious issue when it comes to anime getting new UK fans via random purchases, but pricing is no longer an issue. It isn't far-fetched to think that a 'normal' person could pick up a volume of Death Note for a tenner, enjoy it and get into anime from there.
Considering you don't disagree, you sure typed a lot. You should save that sort of energy for fantard arguments, or reviews.
I fully understand the money making comes before quality selection. As it stands right now, a title has to be A) insanely popular; an easy sell (Death Note) B) Have lots of fan service (Daphne, Battle Vixens) C) have lots of fighting and/or gore (Naruto, Claymore, etc). Welcome to the NHK and Genshiken both lack the 'qualities' required and are unlikely to get released.
However, I don't understand why GTO hasn't had a look in. Even the Russians got it...not that it pleased them. As I said previously, it has school girls in short skirts and the occasional panty shot. There are also a fair few busty ladies. It also fits the bill on the popularity front. Its length aside, I see no reason why it wouldn't sell. Instead of Samurai Deeper Kyo (oh joy...), we could be looking forward to a GTO art box or two, but no - MVM aren't smart enough and decided to pick up yet another poor samurai series simply because the series has 'samurai' in the title.
I made this thread to let out my thoughts. It's good to do once in awhile. I'm not suggesting attacking the UK anime industry is the most productive way of helping the industry advance, but it sure beats staying silent. If more than a single Beez representitive posted here I'd try to be more respectful - I wouldn't want them to run off when, with people from each distributor here, we could give our thoughts and try to get them to improve - but right now my rantings may as well fall on deaf ears.
Even I, an idiot, can see ways for the distributors to improve.
A) Keep each website up to date with news. Don't leave people guessing until the release dates. Does DtB 3 have 1 or 2 discs? Is it even the final volume?
B) Provide images of the items ASAP. I had to guess that the BL box set was a box set because MVM revealed nothing.
C) Use the most active UK forums to communicate with the fanbase - get them on side. Ignoring the fans doesn't do any good. There may only be a fraction of the UK anime fanbase on AUKN, but there is something known as word of mouth. Tell one fan, that fan tells another and so on.
Jerome of Manga left a bad taste in my mouth by buggering off before answering a question. He was more than happy to defend his company when I taunted him but it was too much trouble to have the odd Q&A session every other week. I guess he wasn't paid enough to do more than required.
I'd like to see the distributors making polls on their websites and asking people what they want to see licensed. That way we'd hopefully see less junk...or at least better looking trash. I haven't seen anyone do that yet - I must've missed the MVM Slayers thing.
http://forums.narutofan.com/member.php?u=34221
...Yeah, I was a Sasutard back when the first anime ended (before the filler hell).
Most of the members are idiots - the place is filled with Narutards - and I don't see much room for me to post. I don't do Naruto, I don't do Bleach and I'm often too lazy to stay with stuff as it comes out weekly. NarutoFAN is a great forum if you're still into Bleach and/or Naruto, or if you want to discuss the stuff currently airing, but it isn't a place for me right now.
As for Queen's Blade, even MAL posters complained when it was revealed a second season is in the works, and the first season has a low MAL rating. Lots of people dropped it after watching only a few minutes of the first episode. It's a 100% pervert/complete loser series - I know this for a facht without even watching it.
One last thing: Why are people even bothering to reply to the TTGL tard?
Roy said:
If Manga continue to sell lots of their double disc sets and become even more well known than they are already, I'd like to see them attempt to step up by licensing something that isn't a simple shounen title. I think their name has spread further now than ever before, with TGWLTT still selling very well and Death Note still selling so well that the prices of the first volumes have actually gone up. With every new title they license, the more followers they get at present.
Once they reach a stage where even normal people buy their releases because they're cheap and look interesting - which doesn't seem to be far off - they can afford to gamble on at least a couple of titles. In the past anime being over-priced has been a serious issue when it comes to anime getting new UK fans via random purchases, but pricing is no longer an issue. It isn't far-fetched to think that a 'normal' person could pick up a volume of Death Note for a tenner, enjoy it and get into anime from there.
Justpa said:
Considering you don't disagree, you sure typed a lot. You should save that sort of energy for fantard arguments, or reviews.
I fully understand the money making comes before quality selection. As it stands right now, a title has to be A) insanely popular; an easy sell (Death Note) B) Have lots of fan service (Daphne, Battle Vixens) C) have lots of fighting and/or gore (Naruto, Claymore, etc). Welcome to the NHK and Genshiken both lack the 'qualities' required and are unlikely to get released.
However, I don't understand why GTO hasn't had a look in. Even the Russians got it...not that it pleased them. As I said previously, it has school girls in short skirts and the occasional panty shot. There are also a fair few busty ladies. It also fits the bill on the popularity front. Its length aside, I see no reason why it wouldn't sell. Instead of Samurai Deeper Kyo (oh joy...), we could be looking forward to a GTO art box or two, but no - MVM aren't smart enough and decided to pick up yet another poor samurai series simply because the series has 'samurai' in the title.
I made this thread to let out my thoughts. It's good to do once in awhile. I'm not suggesting attacking the UK anime industry is the most productive way of helping the industry advance, but it sure beats staying silent. If more than a single Beez representitive posted here I'd try to be more respectful - I wouldn't want them to run off when, with people from each distributor here, we could give our thoughts and try to get them to improve - but right now my rantings may as well fall on deaf ears.
Even I, an idiot, can see ways for the distributors to improve.
A) Keep each website up to date with news. Don't leave people guessing until the release dates. Does DtB 3 have 1 or 2 discs? Is it even the final volume?
B) Provide images of the items ASAP. I had to guess that the BL box set was a box set because MVM revealed nothing.
C) Use the most active UK forums to communicate with the fanbase - get them on side. Ignoring the fans doesn't do any good. There may only be a fraction of the UK anime fanbase on AUKN, but there is something known as word of mouth. Tell one fan, that fan tells another and so on.
Jerome of Manga left a bad taste in my mouth by buggering off before answering a question. He was more than happy to defend his company when I taunted him but it was too much trouble to have the odd Q&A session every other week. I guess he wasn't paid enough to do more than required.
I'd like to see the distributors making polls on their websites and asking people what they want to see licensed. That way we'd hopefully see less junk...or at least better looking trash. I haven't seen anyone do that yet - I must've missed the MVM Slayers thing.
Jailbait said:
http://forums.narutofan.com/member.php?u=34221
...Yeah, I was a Sasutard back when the first anime ended (before the filler hell).
Most of the members are idiots - the place is filled with Narutards - and I don't see much room for me to post. I don't do Naruto, I don't do Bleach and I'm often too lazy to stay with stuff as it comes out weekly. NarutoFAN is a great forum if you're still into Bleach and/or Naruto, or if you want to discuss the stuff currently airing, but it isn't a place for me right now.
As for Queen's Blade, even MAL posters complained when it was revealed a second season is in the works, and the first season has a low MAL rating. Lots of people dropped it after watching only a few minutes of the first episode. It's a 100% pervert/complete loser series - I know this for a facht without even watching it.
One last thing: Why are people even bothering to reply to the TTGL tard?
Well, I think there are a few reasons. First, in spite of your comments about short skirts etc, it's not really a fanservicey show, not compared to others. Rather, GTO is very much a comedy show, and that's on reason right there for companies to be cautious - bringing comedy shows out of their "natural habitat" as it were can have mixed results. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Sure, you and I may think it's awesome, but I have shown GTO (1st manga volume, anyway) to a coupe of people who just didn't like it.Aion said:
Then it's long, as you've already mentioned, and it's old. Now, I'm not sure how things stand in the UK, but I seem to recall that series sell much better when they're new in the US and Japan. And as it's older, many UK fans will have bought the US disks by now.
Also, the popularity you mention is somewhat suspect. Sure, if you ask people on anime forums you'll get (generally) good responses to it, but it's gonna be hard to claim that that's genuinely representative.
Which sorta segues into the next point I was going to make - people have mentioned about wanting more interaction with the online anime communities in the UK which, while it sounds good in principle, I'm a little skeptical of its usefulness. If you talk to companies who try to get a measure of support for various things using online polls and the like, what I expect you'll find is that the amount of people who are actually willing to follow through are around 10% of those who actually said they would. So regardless of whether you yourself would follow through or not, there's not much precedent for it. Hell, just look at the example of Princess Tutu, licensed in the US on the basis of online support, and the DVD sales sat firmly in the double figures.
Just sayin.
Aion
Time-Traveller
Not everyone in existence is an old fart. I care not for the VHS days before my anime time; I care only for the now. I know and understand only the present. Everything else is irrelevant to me. The old may put up their noses, but to me they look foolish for clinging to the past.
In todays more advanced DVD/Blu-ray market, the distributors fail to communicate with fans and, for money reasons or otherwise, make bad license choices. That's all that matters. It's silly to pat people on the back for simply changing along with the times.
In todays more advanced DVD/Blu-ray market, the distributors fail to communicate with fans and, for money reasons or otherwise, make bad license choices. That's all that matters. It's silly to pat people on the back for simply changing along with the times.
beez_andrew
Great Teacher
Aion said:
I've stayed clear of this thread until now - but figure it may be worth me wading in to give a bit of a background to this. The reason is actually because Tokyopop I believe partnered their R1 licenses to a distributor in the UK (much like they did with Funi in the US) who ran Initial D then decided given sales for it that it was not worth doing more. The status of the license now is a bit hazy as far as I recall, it's either now back with the original licensors and has been for a very short period of time or it's in no-mans land of a distributor who doesn't want to release it. It's a good show and I was a fan of the manga since Tokyopop started out with it really but since the license has been tied up for so long a lot of distributors get caught in the ever spinning wheel of titles available even if GTO is back on the market (which I'm not 100% certain is the case just now, I've certainly seen no screeners pop up for it).
In short it's not MVM's fault and this brings me onto my next point while I'm here:
Aion said:
Have you ever considered rantings like your own is one of the main reasons that many more people from my side of the fence do not come to talk to fans online? Because quite frankly if I was faced with a reasonable and fair interface with fans at conventions both fan run like Amecon/Ayacon and larger events like London Expo and what comes across as the whining of someone with a pretty developed entitlement complex - I know which I would choose.
Certainly if I hadn't come from being a fan of anime before starting this job I would probably have lost my patience a while ago or dismissed the the importance of interacting here and have given up and walked off now as your attitude of "Well if there's only one person from the industry here - I won't bother showing a modicum of respect for them as a group." is not conducive to bringing said people here, if anything it's the opposite.
Manga have a Twitter account, you could message them questions there and odds are they would reply if you managed to be polite about it, Beez have a presence across forums as well as via email and MVM are very good at replying to emails usually. So it's not exactly true that any of the key distributors in the UK now are hidden away from fan contact - there are lines of communication to present issues and queries to them as well as to invite them onto the forums in a polite fashion as opposed to just ranting about them. My apologies if you've tried Twitter to no success with contacting Manga, I'll pass it onto them if so
.Did you consider asking me to pass on a request for them to come back and engage in productive conversation with them if you didn't reply before? As we talk on a pretty regular basis between companies so it's not hard to do
. If you have one here you have a way to address the whole industry in the UK given its so small anyway if you make a polite point you want passed on.The thing is, you make a fair number of reasonable points that do merit at the very least an explanation why that has already been tried or it doesn't work etc. That said if you veil them in a rant because "nobody seems to be reading barring one representative" - is it any wonder when my counterparts just shrug it off and go back to doing other things?
I'm not suggesting you stop being critical of the native market you would probably rather be buying from - quite the contrary. What I am saying though if you don't mellow out about how you go about criticizing it then many will ignore the points you, and often everyone else on the forum by proxy, make by and large. This isn't out of hate for fans but because given the small size of the industry everyone is usually so if a point is structured in a way that seems hateful or such then it takes a lot more energy not to reply inappropriately to it. Please keep in mind to do this most of us have to work extra hours to do so (Hugh David before leaving LDMS had the same problems fitting things in time-wise when he commented on things).
If someone at Manga or MVM did the same it would almost certainly be the same case, I'm only able to reply now because I'm technically on partial leave just now to finish a 30,000 word thesis that will conclude my MSc by Research I've been doing in my own time.
Answering your points one by one too:
Aion said:
Sometimes it's impossible to do so especially with retailers as when the information goes out is often 3 months ahead of release and details can change so you have to gamble with it and hedge the information appropriately. If their actual Manga.co.uk website didn't specify then it could well have been an issue contractually or production wise in the US (i.e. the master may not be ready for PAL conversion yet) and they wanted to do it but if they had no clearance yet posting information on their site leaves them potentially liable.
This is of course not always the case, but it's the usual one as it's the only one that makes sense!
Aion said:
This is something people always try to do - sometimes problems crop up or images aren't displayed for an assortment of crazy reasons. People like Tony and Matt at MVM are good for getting images to people who ask for them politely anyway so a simple email could have fixed that for you. Not that this should have to be the case admittedly, but when images aren't coming up on retailers sites it is a solution
.Aion said:
It's a shame others do not do this yet, guess you're stuck with me for the time being
. Aion said:
Actually it would be more related to the fact he is actually an extremely busy man now and at the time he was preparing to come on here and represent Manga circumstances outwith his control meant he had to take on the licensing requirements for Manga as well - however they may be able to arrange for someone else to handle that in future if you weren't badmouthing him personally on a regular basis.
Aion said:
As soon as the Beez UK production blog comes live, consider your wish granted from us anyway
.Hope this helps on a few points anyway.
- Andrew,
Still reads the forums and interacts with fans
.
Aion
Time-Traveller
beez_andrew said:
I do recall seeing some Initial D DVDs floating around. I refused to go near them because I'm not a car lover and I hadn't heard much good about the series. Given the lack of coverage the releases received, it's no wonder it flopped.
Thanks for clearing it up. At least now I have a vague understanding of why GTO hasn't had any UK lovin'. It sounds a lot like the One Piece license - no-one fully unerstands who to talk to for the license and it's all a bit messy. It'll be a real shame if it's prevented from getting a UK release because of the failings of an old car racing series...
I mentioned MVM because Samurai Deeper Kyo is also old and just so happens to be vastly inferior to GTO. If getting the license for GTO is as messy as you suggest, I can understand and respect MVM not going for GTO...but SDK; a series with no animation that butchered the decent manga it was supposed to be based on? I can only assume they got the license for dirt cheap (and still released the series in single volume format, years after the R1 releases).
Giving fans news at conventions and not online is a backward way of doing things. It's like posting letters instead of sending emails. The internet is easily accessible, conventions are not. All the anime fans who go to them could get news far easier if the people in the know were more chatty online. I don't mean becoming 'friends' with the few online anime people who post on forums; I mean someone making an effort - like you do - to give information from time to time.
Out of interest, is it part of your job (yeah, I can just see you getting paid by the post!) to share information on AUKN or do you just do it for the fun? I never really thought about it. I'm guessing you just want to promote your companies releases and are doing it on your own? If so, French or not, you're a good guy.
Manga have a Twitter account, you could message them questions there and odds are they would reply if you managed to be polite about it, Beez have a presence across forums as well as via email and MVM are very good at replying to emails usually. So it's not exactly true that any of the key distributors in the UK now are hidden away from fan contact - there are lines of communication to present issues and queries to them as well as to invite them onto the forums in a polite fashion as opposed to just ranting about them. My apologies if you've tried Twitter to no success with contacting Manga, I'll pass it onto them if so
I don't "twit". Twitter is the in thing for losers who need to keep up to date with everything 'important; people do, second by second. I'm sure it'd be a useful way to "twitter" with Manga but, going on past experience, they probably wouldn't be chatty - they (well, Mr. Jerome M-something anyway) never answers emails. Chaos sent them an email a few weeks back and, afaik, never got an answer about DtB 3.
If MVM put more effort into emails, I'll be sure to give them a try with one of my box set questions in the future. Still, it would be better if the questions are answered before I need to ask.
Did you consider asking me to pass on a request for them to come back and engage in productive conversation with them if you didn't reply before? As we talk on a pretty regular basis between companies so it's not hard to do
It's doubtful, unless they make the first moves, that anyone from Manga or MVM would put in the required effort that you do. If you'd ask them to come over to claim their very own Q&A thread on a small forum, that'd be great, but it'd probably die quick unless they themselves want to go the extra mile. Either that or I'd upset them by attempting to befriend them, like with Jerome - a guy who failed to understand that I'm being affectionate by being offensive.
To be fair, I only got a Manga representive to post on here by attacking Manga. He wouldn't have posed otherwise. Sometimes the best way to get someone to respond is to push their buttons... Of course, he quickly escaped, but I'm sure, one day, he'll return to defend the honour of his company. The problem is, I no longer have much bad to say about Manga... :/
...In all seriousness, you're right. It's best to show respect if you want something from someone. But I just don't think any of the other worthwhile people are going to appear just because I kiss their arses instead of typing my mind.
If it means anything, out of respect for you taking the time to answer a few of my posts without swearing at me in French, I'll stop bashing Beez...or at least, I'll try not to do so in every other post.
(Note: Me being nice to Beez has nothing to do with Gundam Wing. Nothing whatsoever.)
It's a shame others do not do this yet, guess you're stuck with me for the time being
As much as I like you (not really), it would be better for me personally to hear from the other distributors. The reason is that I buy mainly Manga titles, some MVM and very little Beez titles. What can I say, I'm not a collector who pays £60 for something I can import for £18 without a lovely box set. Others prefer to pay £60 inatead but I'm not one of them.
It is still setting time aside to hear back from the market, though--it is the time they set aside to hear appeals. Responding to e-mails and the like is taking further time to assess a broad number of questions--many identical--that could be more reasonably perceived--at least economically; the quality and detail of responses likely would not be a factor deemed worthy enough--in the time they have already set aside. I, personally, think it is vastly unfair to make the demand for further feedback and time to be set aside--especially given those in such industries are not always fans of the product. As for the use of forums, if AUKN is used as an example, we are a small enough community that probably does not warrant time to be given to us--and few UK-based anime forums really do house a great number of members.
Regardless of past experiences with Jerome--he is not representative of Manga as a whole--using Twitter is a very strong--and positive--step in the direction of trying to appease fans. I believe that instead of us making further demands of them, we should utilise the tools they have already laid in place. If you do not twit--do so; it is that direct means of getting in contact with them. It serves as the leverage we have been given. E-mails have not worked, but they have given us Twitter.
You will not upset them, but they will give up in trying to reason with those who appear--even if it is just ostensibly--aggressive. That is not their fault, though: it is our loss if that happens. We have to prevent that by appearing composed--they do not have the time, nor the desire, to read into it.
As Andrew said, he still shrugged it off; he just defended the company. A response like that is superfluous if the possibility for a more positive response exists, I would argue. I think Andrew's point is one that should be firmly held in mind. Typing your mind is not going to be productive--but being sycophantic is unnecessary, further--as Andrew noted. Just be calm and calculated.
Aggresion--used for whatever reason--can still be perceived as coercive. There is no need to follow this route--it wears tolerances thin, and I do not think there should be any further need to underscore that, or contend it.
Just Passing Through
The Wildcard
Some information about Samurai Deeper Kyo...
A AU$80 boxset was released by Madman the same week as MVM's V1... This put the series across 4 discs, and has different extras to the Region 1.
MVM are releasing these discs as single volumes in the UK, so Samurai Deeper Kyo will be released in four volumes, not the six volumes of the old Region 1 release.
Mediocrity at a better rate.
A AU$80 boxset was released by Madman the same week as MVM's V1... This put the series across 4 discs, and has different extras to the Region 1.
MVM are releasing these discs as single volumes in the UK, so Samurai Deeper Kyo will be released in four volumes, not the six volumes of the old Region 1 release.
Mediocrity at a better rate.
ayase
State Alchemist
Regarding the "attitude of fans" thing; No forum (or for that matter, the internet) could keep the idiots out anymore than you can get rid of them in real life, barring some kind of final solution. I think perhaps people involved in the business of anime are more used to dealing with people in a business environment, and can be a little thin skinned and / or prickly when dealing with people in the real world. Andrew's pretty good at it, but I think the point Aion made about communication with companies is a valid one.
Often we have to figure out a lot of information about releases for ourselves, I mean let's face it, if you guys want to sell us your products, you should be coming to us with reasons to buy them, and what better place to do that than a forum where anime fans congregate! But if someone was to say "God X company sucks" they may very well be greeted with a barrage of reasons from a company rep why they don't suck, work their very hardest gosh darn it and ungrateful fans like this are the reason they don't make an effort to communicate. If you're going to talk to the public, you're going to have to deal with some idiots. The only alternative is to not communicate at all.
Often we have to figure out a lot of information about releases for ourselves, I mean let's face it, if you guys want to sell us your products, you should be coming to us with reasons to buy them, and what better place to do that than a forum where anime fans congregate! But if someone was to say "God X company sucks" they may very well be greeted with a barrage of reasons from a company rep why they don't suck, work their very hardest gosh darn it and ungrateful fans like this are the reason they don't make an effort to communicate. If you're going to talk to the public, you're going to have to deal with some idiots. The only alternative is to not communicate at all.