Why people choose not to support legal simulcasts

Dan

Thousand Master
This is right up my street ATM. I've been discussing this with a friend who pirates everything. He argues they should pay him for his time if something is awful rather than him paying for it. Worse excuse ever :evil: he was talking about a band (can't remember the name) who put there albums out for free and say pay us what it's worth. Yeah like everyone can afford to do that and how many would continually do this for nothing.

Cue the rant:
I hate people who refuse to pay for anything. Period. Like they have some god given right to get it for free. I'm one of the people paying for the damn thing so you can watch it for free. How's that fair in your idiotic world. Get your hand in your pocket and pay. That's not aimed at you I..Lemon. Its more my frustration with people who (as I said above) think they have a right to access these things for free.
 

VoxPhantom

Stand User
NormanicGrav said:
- Make a deal with Funimation to simulcast their titles or get Funimation themselves to provide access for the UK
This is one thing that I'd really like to see happen. It's so frustrating to have to cross titles off my list of shows to watch as soon as I hear that Funi has licensed them. "The Disappearance of Nagato Yuki-chan" being totally unavailable in the UK really irritates me.
 

st_owly (witch)

Time-Traveller
VoxPhantom said:
NormanicGrav said:
- Make a deal with Funimation to simulcast their titles or get Funimation themselves to provide access for the UK
This is one thing that I'd really like to see happen. It's so frustrating to have to cross titles off my list of shows to watch as soon as I hear that Funi has licensed them. "The Disappearance of Nagato Yuki-chan" being totally unavailable in the UK really irritates me.
Agreed. If we could get a UK streaming service to get the Funi shows legally over here that'd be great.

- On a personal case; Fire the entire staff over at Animax and have someone take over who knows how to get content out there as soon as possible and in better condition
Nope, just burn Animax to the ground and let it never darken these shores again.
 

Agent-347

Student Council President
The fails of professionals
I have some fuel for the fury of some people.

In Belgium "één" (your BBC One) aired in Koppen (magazine talkshow) a segment about anime and the fandom ...
Well ... Go to this page and look at 01:10 in the video ...
To translate what's said a bit the animefan talks highly about how most people watch anime for free on those sites.
But the TV network, which has aired Ghost in the Shell: SAC: SSS before on Canvas (your BBC Two) did never make any mentions of the legal sites.
I personally found that to be unacceptable ... given Crunchyroll since last year also is licensing for Belgium and Netherlands ... even though there are plenty of flaws.
And while the entire report didn't stand out as bad, it was one-sided, way too short and bar the first two minutes it was more about cosplay and conventions than anime.

Download habbits
However, to move on to my download habbits.

First and foremost, I got into anime thanks to the "illegal" ways. An online friend of mine who subbed to Dutch wanted me to check it out and I did ... Loved it. That was 9 april 2011.
Following on from that we had more conversations about anime and as I got my second laptop in 2011 I got recommendations and searched for stuff myself.
So I downloaded 720p dual audio MKV files of a bunch of anime I wanted to watch. So near the end of July 2011 I started Clannad and it ended up being the first anime I'd also finish.
Later in August I also watched Clannad After Story, Angel Beats, Demon King Daimao and Needless. So I got hooked on anime thanks to these "unsupportive" downloadsites ...
And ... I couldn't support anime back then ... Barely anything got licensed for Belgium and Netherlands. And Beez was the last one to actually add English dubs to our releases, so yeah.

So I had to wait til Q4 2012 before I'd receive my first self-bought anime, from the UK. But before that I could not hold off watching these anime series.
Like I see people saying that who can't support anime should not watch it at all ... But I would NEVER have gotten into anime if there was no such thing as illegal downloads/streams.
I know, I'm not like NormanicGrav, Mangaranga, Rui, AF17, ... who can throw loads of money at supporting the UK, US and JP anime industry ... but still I'm completely willing to support physical releases.
I'd love to just buy the JP Haruhi Suzumiya BD-box, the Gurren Lagann UE and numerous other JP/US premium -and even standard- releases. But especially with the current exchange rate that's not possible.
Talking Limited Editions alone I'm currently pondering how to best proceed acquiring Blood Lad, Kill la Kill v3 (& v2), Good luck Girl (US), Unbreakable Machine Doll (US) & The Devil is a Part-Timer (US) with the money I have.
If anybody feels like supporting a charity, you could always send me a PM with/for a good deal, a discount code or a donation of something I'm dying to own if you really want to*.
There are two AUKN regular members who have been so nice to do this already a few times and I hope both of them know I greatly appreciate they did something for me. ;3

*I'm not forcing anybody to do such things. I just greatly appreciate any help I can get to watch as many anime as possible legally.

Streaming and DTO
Now, since a year Crunchyroll has put in the effort to license more for Belgium and Netherlands ... But I'm not a fan of not owning a title.
If I pay for a show I want to own it today, tomorrow, next year, next decade, ... I don't want to "own" it as long as I pay for a subscription or for as long as Crunchyroll holds the license.
And DTO (Download To Own) is not a thing yet here. Heck, Netflix is only about a half year old here.
On top of that I prefer owning a title physically more than some files I have to make sure I have backed up on multiple places.

Be sensible!
Yes, I downloaded Black Rock Shooter, Kiniro Mosaic, Tari Tari, Rec as well as Rocket Girls which I'm trying to watch currently.
Given Tari Tari in the US is AB now I have the intend to import that and I'll look into acquiring KinMosa as well in the future.
However, if all these became available in the UK I'd definitely buy them. It's not a matter of not wanting to support anime legally ...
More that it isn't affordable to me as it is, and dubbed anime mostly doesn't really get uploaded on these streaming platforms either.

And something to add, I know people whose parents are really uncomfortable with their kids (despite being 15 or even 20+) spending their money on these entertainment releases.
Or worse, they expect their kids to spend their money on everything they need themselves. (from clothes to school stuff so they don't have money left for personal entertainment)
So you can't just act as if all people are ignorant towards legal ways of watching anime.
Plenty of minors just don't have the allowance to support everything they want and they prioritize other things. (downloading candy, parties and drinks for free isn't a thing yet after all)
And in plenty of households parents don't necessarily approve of their kids getting these big collections (even if they don't mind their kids getting a few DVDs/BDs).

And to be fair, some of these downloadsites do tend to ask their visitors if they have the money to support anime legally they should.
I know I have seen these messages on places I cannot name here, even by people who upload themselves.

What I think needs to happen
So what I think needs to be worked on by these online services:
- dubbed versions on these streaming sites.
- Download-To-Own, also in non-English countries
- Localized versions of these legal streaming sites (Crunchyroll can't be used in Dutch for instance, and people being reluctant to pay on a site not in their native language isn't too surprising)
- Crunchyroll added more to their standard premium subscription, but there should be a cheap subscription for someone who ONLY wants the anime and isn't interested in the drama and manga.
- add customized subtitle options (like different fonts and colour settings should not be too hard to set-up actually)
- taking action and talking with these fansub sites. I'm sure not all these groups are unwilling to stop their operations if they were heard. Especially if it is just about typesetting and fonts. xD

And then there are these for our beloved anime distributors:
- More UK sub-only Blu-ray releases.
- More UK Blu-ray releases and upgrades in general.
- SD on Blu-ray. (if that's how I can get my UK School Rumble, Vandread, etc. boxsets I'll gladly take it)
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
Definitely agree that we need more Sub Only releases. The only ones I can think of ATM are the Monogatari series. As much as I normally prefer dubs, I would buy shows without dubs like JoJo's Bizarre Adventures, Love Live, Seitokai Yakuindomo and Gintama in a heartbeat, just to name a few.
 

Lutga

Mad Scientist
I'm not sure sub only releases are the way forward. Even Monogatari only does around 500 or so copies a volume, and that's a top tier title. Imagine how low sub only releases of 'smaller' titles would be.

Dubs are massively important for a casual audience and a big reason for many to shell out on physical - it's added value. You're basically getting two versions of the show for the price of one.
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
That's the thing. I'm no expert but I'm not sure there really is a casual audience for Anime. Sure, you get a show every now and again such as Attack on Titan or Kill la Kill that seems to transcend from just people really into Anime to a more casual audience, same goes for your Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, ect, but aside from those handful of shows, Anime is quite niche and I'd wager most if not all of the fans in that Niche watch subbed shows, so I don't think you'd be loosing that many sales. As I said, I'm no expert, I could be completely off base.

Out of interest, you say Monogatri moves around 500 copies, how does this compare to other shows, big and small that have dubs? I've never really looked into Anime sales figures.
 

Lutga

Mad Scientist
The irony is that 500 is pretty decent these days. Even the latest Naruto volumes (still the biggest sellers out there) struggle to do much over 1000 copies.

Attack on Titan really did buck the trend - in it's first week on sale it easily did over 2000 and is probably closer to 10,000 now. Bear in mind that this compares to stuff like Death Note / GITS SAC that have gone on to do upwards of 20k / 30k by this point, quite possibly more. The only thing that really goes into the hundreds of thousands is stuff like Akira.

Anime titles benefit from a long tail though - they might do smallish numbers in the first week but will keep selling small numbers each week, so you have something like Madoka that came out three years ago that has now sold around 7000 copies total.

Some titles sell ridiculously poorly though - I won't name names but there's stuff that's come out this year that has sold less than 100 copies.
 

Phobos

Titan
IncendiaryLemon said:
Anime is quite niche and I'd wager most if not all of the fans in that Niche watch subbed shows
Certainly not all. As I have poor sight I don't fancy looking at subs which I can't see enough to read... Nor do I understand Japanese. You can guess which option this leaves me. :p
 

GolGotha

Death Scythe
Lutga said:
The irony is that 500 is pretty decent these days. Even the latest Naruto volumes (still the biggest sellers out there) struggle to do much over 1000 copies.

Attack on Titan really did buck the trend - in it's first week on sale it easily did over 2000 and is probably closer to 10,000 now. Bear in mind that this compares to stuff like Death Note / GITS SAC that have gone on to do upwards of 20k / 30k by this point, quite possibly more. The only thing that really goes into the hundreds of thousands is stuff like Akira.

Anime titles benefit from a long tail though - they might do smallish numbers in the first week but will keep selling small numbers each week, so you have something like Madoka that came out three years ago that has now sold around 7000 copies total.

Some titles sell ridiculously poorly though - I won't name names but there's stuff that's come out this year that has sold less than 100 copies.
Didn't Jonathan Clements say the worst selling UK title sold like 18 copies whilst gave away 20+ for reviews?
 

black1blade

Thousand Master
I have a old family PC connected to a ****** monitor which can't really stream video. I have a nice monitor and blu-ray player upstairs (pretty much only thing I got last year with about £100 of anime). Someone could just say that I should buy a new PC but really I would rather just buy more anime blu rays so not being able to stream is helping the anime industry XD
 

GolGotha

Death Scythe
But, streaming also helps the industry as it lets distributors know which titles are worth licencing and if they should be released sub only and on DVD or Blu-Ray etc... :)
 

Shiroi Hane

Dragon Knight
The lastest Anwerman is rather well timed: http://www.animenewsnetwork.co.uk/answe ... -24/.87349

Lutga said:
I think Manga unfortunately got screwed over a bit when it came to them being sold by Starz. Prior to that, they were pretty active in getting their titles up on VOD platforms like iTunes, as Starz is a big distributor (not just anime) to VOD platforms. So as soon as Manga were sold by Starz, those titles stopped appearing.
I see no point in iTunes when a title is available on disc here, since the discs are if anything cheaper and iTunes only has subtitles if there is no dub available. I've bought a few episodes for things that aren't available here like Henneko, but when I look at the price for a whole series I always balk, expecially since I'm also restricted to watching on my PC (and iTunes hates goinh fullscreen on an external display)

GolGotha said:
Didn't Jonathan Clements say the worst selling UK title sold like 18 copies whilst gave away 20+ for reviews?
Wasn't that IGPX or something? I believe Red Garden was in double figures only also.
 

Lutga

Mad Scientist
Shiroi Hane said:
The lastest Anwerman is rather well timed: http://www.animenewsnetwork.co.uk/answe ... -24/.87349

Lutga said:
I think Manga unfortunately got screwed over a bit when it came to them being sold by Starz. Prior to that, they were pretty active in getting their titles up on VOD platforms like iTunes, as Starz is a big distributor (not just anime) to VOD platforms. So as soon as Manga were sold by Starz, those titles stopped appearing.
I see no point in iTunes when a title is available on disc here, since the discs are if anything cheaper and iTunes only has subtitles if there is no dub available. I've bought a few episodes for things that aren't available here like Henneko, but when I look at the price for a whole series I always balk, expecially since I'm also restricted to watching on my PC (and iTunes hates goinh fullscreen on an external display)

GolGotha said:
Didn't Jonathan Clements say the worst selling UK title sold like 18 copies whilst gave away 20+ for reviews?
Wasn't that IGPX or something? I believe Red Garden was in double figures only also.
Yup, IGPX was an awful seller - when it was coming out in 2006/2007, each part only shifted around 30-50 copies. - The 6th volume only sold 16 copies.

Fantastic Children was another terrible seller from that era too.
 

Shiroi Hane

Dragon Knight
Well that's a shame - I loved Fantastic Children (and own the Beez box). The style itself wasn't to my taste, but the story reminded me of the stuff I loved the most when I was younger. Hated the dub though...
 

ilmaestro

State Alchemist
Rui said:
ilmaestro will make fun of me for mentioning Viewster if he sees this
:lol:

I did actually give Ruiwster a chance for the first time this week, to watch Seraph of the End. I can only echo your sentiments regarding both their acquisition of Funi titles and the need for a subscription model, although I would probably go even further than you on the latter as I think the shows are borderline unwatchable with the way the ads are set up now.
 
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