Why people choose not to support legal simulcasts

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
black1blade said:
Yeah same, I finally broke and started watching the rest (the show looked so nice on the blu rays I won for free...)
I've just been watching them through downloads. I plan on buying them somewhere down the line but the prices for all the sets are so damn high. I honestly can't justify £35 for 15 episodes when something like FMA Brotherhood is less than that for 30+ episodes per part. It's crazy. I really love the series so far too. I finished Nekomonogatari Kuro a week or two ago and then I took a small break so I didn't burn out. I'll probably start Second Season today actually.
 

black1blade

Thousand Master
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Yeah I took a biggish break after nise but I am downloading the rest.
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Uh can you not discuss illegal downloads in the distributor thread, especially when the series was legally available as a stream here for ages (and most of it still is)?

R
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Rui said:
Uh can you not discuss illegal downloads in the distributor thread, especially when the series was legally available as a stream here for ages (and most of it still is)?

R
Sure, sorry about that, I wasn't sure if that kind of thing was allowed here or not. Besides, the versions you can find for download have way better type setting than Crunchyroll, making streaming it an inferior experience IMO.
 

Lutga

Mad Scientist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

IncendiaryLemon said:
Rui said:
Uh can you not discuss illegal downloads in the distributor thread, especially when the series was legally available as a stream here for ages (and most of it still is)?

R
Sure, sorry about that, I wasn't sure if that kind of thing was allowed here or not. Besides, the versions you can find for download have way better type setting than Crunchyroll, making it an inferior experience IMO.
Not to get into the whole ethics of fansubs/illegal content, or an argument, but comments like this really frustrate me. It's like, damn, how can the industry win when you give fans a free, legal alternative and still people choose illegal over it?

It just really makes me so angry - and maybe I'm biased because I work in the media industry, but views like these undermine the work of thousands of people.
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Lutga said:
IncendiaryLemon said:
Rui said:
Uh can you not discuss illegal downloads in the distributor thread, especially when the series was legally available as a stream here for ages (and most of it still is)?

R
Sure, sorry about that, I wasn't sure if that kind of thing was allowed here or not. Besides, the versions you can find for download have way better type setting than Crunchyroll, making it an inferior experience IMO.
Not to get into the whole ethics of fansubs/illegal content, or an argument, but comments like this really frustrate me. It's like, damn, how can the industry win when you give fans a free, legal alternative and still people choose illegal over it?

It just really makes me so angry - and maybe I'm biased because I work in the media industry, but views like these undermine the work of thousands of people.
I totally get where you're coming from and I do appreciate efforts of sites such as Crunchyroll to bring over shows and show them for free, when the illegal version is better in ever way, how can you expect people not to choose the latter? As I mentioned, the Crunchyroll version has worse type setting, is in 480p and, in the case of Monogatari, has a fairly large watermark in the corner. Compare this to 1080p with great type setting, and no watermark, it's no comparison. If I watch a show and I like it there is a pretty good chance that I'll buy it, like I plan on doing with Monogatari, and support the industry that way. I'd probably consider a CR subscription if I had a job and my current disposable income wasn't £10 a week...
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
It was available 100% free, with no ads (maybe one at the start, I don't remember), full 1080p video and the like on Daisuki for ages. If you chose not to watch it there, your choice is to either buy it or watch an inferior version on Crunchyroll. Or pay for the decent Crunchyroll stream, or instead of paying just ask for a free Crunchyroll trial code, here's one right now for 48 hours of Premium+ service: GYJHERK7LXG. That's enough time to watch every episode of Monogatari on the entire site. Go nuts. I have more where that came from.

Most pirated downloads nowadays are clones of the streams with the ads removed and the subtitles cloned in a different font or with pretentious name changes. I'm sorry you only have £10 disposable income a week but actually, it's only £40 for an entire annual plan with access to everything there plus the manga and other perks. £10 disposable income is not a tiny amount if you put aside a little each week and survive on the other free services like Viewster/Daisuki until you can afford to go Premium. It sounds more to me that you don't want to because you consider the alternatives better.

It's nothing personal as you're far from the only person who says these things but is type setting an excuse to leech off the industry? Really?

R
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
Rui said:
It was available 100% free, with no ads (maybe one at the start, I don't remember), full 1080p video and the like on Daisuki for ages. If you chose not to watch it there, your choice is to either buy it or watch an inferior version on Crunchyroll. Or pay for the decent Crunchyroll stream, or instead of paying just ask for a free Crunchyroll trial code, here's one right now for 48 hours of Premium+ service: GYJHERK7LXG. That's enough time to watch every episode of Monogatari on the entire site. Go nuts. I have more where that came from.

Most pirated downloads nowadays are clones of the streams with the ads removed and the subtitles cloned in a different font or with pretentious name changes. I'm sorry you only have £10 disposable income a week but actually, it's only £40 for an entire annual plan with access to everything there plus the manga and other perks. £10 disposable income is not a tiny amount if you put aside a little each week and survive on the other free services like Viewster/Daisuki until you can afford to go Premium. It sounds more to me that you don't want to because you consider the alternatives better.

It's nothing personal as you're far from the only person who says these things but is type setting an excuse to leech off the industry? Really?

R
First of all, I haven't heard of Daisuki before, and I'll consider it in future. Also, it's not that I chose not to watch it there, I only started the series yesterday, it's out of my control if it's gone.

Also, I'd consider type setting to be quite important, more in some shows than others. Monogatari is probably an extreme example as it tends to have a lot more on screen text than other shows, but would you not agree you'd much rather have subs like this or this rather than this or this? It's also the principle. Obviously I know that supporting the industry is important, but paying money for an product that is inferior, even if it's just something like type setting, still feels a little backwards. Surely if I'm paying money I should be getting an experience on par with the pirates are getting, no?
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
No. Because a pirated experience will always be 'better' if you're intent on justifying your actions in that way. They have no costs, no licensors, no restrictions, no need to adhere to the spellings preferred by the original creators, no need to justify their existence by always being flawless, no need to support different platforms and technologies, no need to be accessible to people from different backgrounds, no need to hold themselves back for the Japanese airdate; there are no rules at all. The pirates can deliver a 'better' product because they are taking someone else's hard work and rereleasing it without any of the niceties. They don't even need to know a single word of Japanese any more now they clone the legal streams, so they can optimise their skillsets for the difficult things which really matter - like font choices, apparently.

I also personally think that the typesetting in that shot of the books is rubbish, because it's incredibly hard to read compared to the Japanese or the ugly subs. The randomly rotated text to fit the gap is a weird choice when there's abundant space on the unsubtitled book next to it, if we're going to nitpick text placement that much. In any case, the purpose of subtitles isn't to beautifully augment the original work with English-translated equivalents - the industry tried that before and everyone hated it. It's to dump text information on the screen for the viewer to absorb while focusing on the art. I like BD subtitles more than DVD ones because they're cleaner, naturally, but hiding the text around the image and changing the font/colour doesn't make it any more accessible. Furthermore, in my mind it isn't an important enough enhancement to justify screwing the creators over.

I find it depressing that people fall back to the pirated versions before taking the small amount of time necessary to research options which support the industry first, but since you also didn't read the forum rules or take the time to consider that the MVM industry thread was an insensitive place to start bragging about this stuff in the first place, I should probably not be surprised. I'll calm down eventually but as a piece of advice, apologising when you're in the wrong then immediately tagging on a "Besides..." to argue your position in the same breath is not a good way to appear convincingly apologetic.

R
 

st_owly (witch)

Time-Traveller
The only legal simulcasts I won't support are Animax's, and that's because every aspect of their "service" is worse than abysmal. Fortunately, a simple browser plugin means I can get US Crunchyroll and get them there instead. The only time I'll ever download a show is if it's not available legally at all. In reality, that means old stuff which hasn't been streamed.

As Rui said, a Crunchyroll subscription is £40/year, so it's less than £1 a week. As long as the subtitles are readable, I really couldn't give a monkey's about what font they use.
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
Rui said:
No. Because a pirated experience will always be 'better' if you're intent on justifying your actions in that way. They have no costs, no licensors, no restrictions, no need to adhere to the spellings preferred by the original creators, no need to justify their existence by always being flawless, no need to support different platforms and technologies, no need to be accessible to people from different backgrounds, no need to hold themselves back for the Japanese airdate; there are no rules at all. The pirates can deliver a 'better' product because they are taking someone else's hard work and rereleasing it without any of the niceties. They don't even need to know a single word of Japanese any more now they clone the legal streams, so they can optimise their skillsets for the difficult things which really matter - like font choices, apparently.

I also personally think that the typesetting in that shot of the books is rubbish, because it's incredibly hard to read compared to the Japanese or the ugly subs. The randomly rotated text to fit the gap is a weird choice when there's abundant space on the unsubtitled book next to it, if we're going to nitpick text placement that much. In any case, the purpose of subtitles isn't to beautifully augment the original work with English-translated equivalents - the industry tried that before and everyone hated it. It's to dump text information on the screen for the viewer to absorb while focusing on the art. I like BD subtitles more than DVD ones because they're cleaner, naturally, but hiding the text around the image and changing the font/colour doesn't make it any more accessible. Furthermore, in my mind it isn't an important enough enhancement to justify screwing the creators over.

I find it depressing that people fall back to the pirated versions before taking the small amount of time necessary to research options which support the industry first, but since you also didn't read the forum rules or take the time to consider that the MVM industry thread was an insensitive place to start bragging about this stuff in the first place, I should probably not be surprised. I'll calm down eventually but as a piece of advice, apologising when you're in the wrong then immediately tagging on a "Besides..." to argue your position in the same breath is not a good way to appear convincingly apologetic.

R
You bring up some fair points. Personally I prefer the subs being augmented into the show but to each his own I guess. Also, I didn't go into that thread intending to 'brag' it was incidental. It just kind of came up. Also bragging is the wrong word. I don't relish screwing people in the industry over or take joy in the fact. You're right, I was a bit of a dick and I should have read the rules and just left the topic alone, I apologize.
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
Thank you. I feel too much empathy for the MVM guys to be able to keep my temper imagining how frustrating it must be for them to read things like that when they've been busting their guts to get us what we keep asking for (quick UK releases on BD which don't interfere with the availability of streaming options - something so simple yet apparently hard to master given the history of the UK industry). Peace.

R
 

NormanicGrav

(゜ロ゜)
AUKN Staff
Probably rather off-topic below but what the heck. :roll:

I've tried to tell people in my society to support Crunchyroll and Daisuki etc. but they always use the same excuse of 'why go to those when I can get this kind of stuff for free'. I feel as though people need to be more aware of how much damage piracy can actually do to the industry, and as far as I'm aware it was one of the main causes for the crash of 2007 (or was it 2008) in North America's anime industry. But now with Crunchyroll and other sites getting more content it's apparent that piracy has actually 'reduced' according to Justin Sevakis in one of his recent ANN Answerman articles.

There are still a couple of things I want Crunchyroll, Viewster and those similar to do if we are ever going to reduce piracy over here:
- Get the simulcasts up as soon as possible - Animax fails on this part
- Give the titles 1080p access whether it's via subscription or just the first couple of weeks - Viewster is working on getting HD within a couple of months
- If we can't get access to the show on one site then get it on another - This goes especially to the titles that belong to TBS and Toei Animation as we have been blocked off from popular titles
- Make a deal with Funimation to simulcast their titles or get Funimation themselves to provide access for the UK
- On a personal case; Fire the entire staff over at Animax and have someone take over who knows how to get content out there as soon as possible and in better condition
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
ilmaestro will make fun of me for mentioning Viewster if he sees this but I've really liked how they have started grabbing FUNi licenses and their Anime Limited deal this season has proved they can actually get things up on the right day if they're partnered up with the right company. If only the ads on the desktop version didn't suck so much; 1080p ad-free subscriptions would be a godsend (though I prefer 720p anyway as my connection isn't so great).

Leading on from one of those points, one area which I feel Manga UK are making a massive mistake in is that they're exclusively focusing on mainstream places like Netflix and iTunes. Obviously it's fantastic to have anime there but the best way to monetise this stuff in the long run surely has to be getting it on as many different channels as possible; some people use Netflix, some prefer Crunchyroll, others only like DTO, maybe some people even use Animax. If I'm recommending something to my friends they tend to check the service(s) they personally subscribe to then give up if nothing is there. Why not have everything everywhere that it will be accepted? Are exclusivity contracts really that lucrative compared to the benefits of gaining more customer awareness?

With premium releases like Anime Limited's catalogue and even Monogatari (since it's coming out in a more expensive release pattern at the moment), having a legal avenue to sample things has completely transformed the hobby for many customers. FUNimation's US model seems perfect; get it out on as many platforms as you can reach then bring out premium editions and physical releases according to demand. And it seems to be working.

R
 

Lutga

Mad Scientist
I think Manga unfortunately got screwed over a bit when it came to them being sold by Starz. Prior to that, they were pretty active in getting their titles up on VOD platforms like iTunes, as Starz is a big distributor (not just anime) to VOD platforms. So as soon as Manga were sold by Starz, those titles stopped appearing.

In my eyes, for the most part (leaving physical releases aside for a moment) we've never had it so good when it comes to availability to shows. It still isn't perfect, but we now exist in a state where there's probably more new anime on CR every season than the average person physically has time to watch, which is pretty incredible.
 

Y-San

Shinki
Hmm. I think even now, there are certain groups that can still do a better job of translating and typesetting than Crunchyroll plus their rips aren't as compressed but I think at the same time, Crunchyroll as definitely taken a bite out of pirate groups. Only a handful seem to actually bother doing their own translations now, the rest just rip and edit and even then, there are still less active groups than there were even a few years back. I think the logic behind fan subbing seems to be that they will continue subbing until streaming platforms can provide subbing up to their standards. That and more generally, I think some resentment also still exists towards Crunchyroll in particular because of their past, especially in the darker recesses of the internet.

Personally though, I don't mind too much if the video quality is a little lame. Crunchyroll and the like provide speedy translations and immediate access to new content all while providing a legal alternative. If you're concerned with quality, buy the BDs when they drop. Most anime have some scenes redrawn between the TV airing and the Bluray release anyway.

And besides, just because you can steal anime doesn't mean you should.
 

GolGotha

Death Scythe
IncendiaryLemon said:
First of all, I haven't heard of Daisuki before, and I'll consider it in future. Also, it's not that I chose not to watch it there, I only started the series yesterday, it's out of my control if it's gone.
If that's the case, then I advise you to look at the topic titled 'Where to Stream Anime Legally Online in the UK' as you might be surprised what titles are actually available legally.
 

NormanicGrav

(゜ロ゜)
AUKN Staff
GolGotha said:
IncendiaryLemon said:
First of all, I haven't heard of Daisuki before, and I'll consider it in future. Also, it's not that I chose not to watch it there, I only started the series yesterday, it's out of my control if it's gone.
If that's the case, then I advise you to look at the topic titled 'Where to Stream Anime Legally Online in the UK' as you might be surprised what titles are actually available legally.
Speaking of that thread, I actually wonder how many people look at the first page. I know I update it monthly but I hope it benefits everyone.
 

GolGotha

Death Scythe
A few of us, including the mod of the MCM Facebook Group do link to it when these discussions come up, so hopefully it does get used a lot!

Edit: I meant admin, sorry Joe!
 

NormanicGrav

(゜ロ゜)
AUKN Staff
GolGotha said:
A few of us, including the mod of the MCM Facebook Group do link to it when these discussions come up, so hopefully it does get used a lot!
That's nice to hear. :thumb:
 
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