Tottenham riot

vashdaman said:
I don't really understand why when you say that other deep rooted factors must have contributed to the situation, everyone seems to think that means your endorsing and justifying the behaviour we saw. We are clearly having this idea that there is nothing else to this situation but pure unexplained "criminality" marketed to us, unfortunately this will get us nowhere.

I think our biggest problem is that no one is willing to take any responsibility, and I don't just mean the rioters or the government, I mean all of us. Everyone living in this society including you and me is responsible for what happens within it. Unfortunately I don't think many like this idea and would simply prefer to pass the blame onto "The benefits" and so on.
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I think it's more because the people saying that make it seem like that is the only reason people are rioting rather than it being a "contributing" factor. I'm sure it is a contributing factor, but I highly doubt the entire rioting population has a reason for doing this beyond greed or just wanton violence/ mob mentality. I mean teaching assistants and people training to be lawyers have been looting for crying out loud. I don't think they can be said to be particularly hard done by.

I do agree with your line about responsibility though, reminding us of the oft repeated phrase "evil happens because good people do nothing." I think the members of the community coming out in force to clean up their streets should be proud of what they are doing, not just because they are looking after their community but because it sends a message both to the rioters and the country as a whole.
 
Came across this article whilst browsing the BBC News website earlier. It pretty much sums up what I think the major problem with society is (bear in mind this was written before any of this kicked off) and why this is not going to go away. Young people are coming to hate this society because they grow up to find they have been utterly lied to about the kind of life they can expect. Then they look back and say "Hang on a sec, the older generation got free university education, much cheaper housing (even when inflation is factored in), food, petrol etc. and now we have to work to pay for their f*cking pensions?" I'm pretty angry myself, and I'm 26. I don't imagine 16 year olds just out of school are any happier.
 
ayase said:
Came across this article whilst browsing the BBC News website earlier. It pretty much sums up what I think the major problem with society is (bear in mind this was written before any of this kicked off) and why this is not going to go away. Young people are coming to hate this society because they grow up to find they have been utterly lied to about the kind of life they can expect. Then they look back and say "Hang on a sec, the older generation got free university education, much cheaper housing (even when inflation is factored in), food, petrol etc. and now we have to work to pay for their f*cking pensions?" I'm pretty angry myself, and I'm 26. I don't imagine 16 year olds just out of school are any happier.
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But imagine the kind of stories old people will tell!

"Back in my day things was easy as pie, we learned for free and people was just throwin' jobs at us like they was cash in a strip club and then you could take two shillings and buy a house, three second homes and still have enough change for the bus to work."
 
On the BBC at the moment they are saying that JD Sport is one of the most popular shops to be mobbed over the last week.

When you look at the people involved a lot of them head to toe in sports gear.

Hmmm, maybe JD Sport will rethink who it is marketing its self to...
 
Maxon said:
Tachi said:
Said it before, saying it again; bring back all the rights parents, teachers and the police had to sort out unruley kids before they grow up to be the little shits that they are, roaming the streets in packs like animals, intimidating people.
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But it's ok for you to go unpunished for your supposed hacking exploits? :roll:
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I don't go around bullying people and i don't hack anymore so it was never about doing it to better my own reputation. It was when i was a young teenager and had the chance to be taught by another hacker who'se also retired from it. Both of us where doing hacking for a small charge, Although i know the ins and outs of hacking and methods of which attacks are made i spent the majority of the time staying out of mainstream hacking like Anonymous - i won't lie i've used their services in the past but that was just using their proxy servers to bypass web restrictions.

Social engineering hacking is probably the easiest way to do it, if you can look at a persons profile then you should be able to gather enough information (mothers maiden name, pets name, favourite colour, partners name ect ect) to guess passwords. Using LOIC on a social website like bebo or facebook serves no purpose because the servers are too large and their servers are in numbers to withstand a worldwide audience so you won't even make a dent towards a DDOS.

Though wrong to hack, i wasn't doing it from personal reasons, i wasn't too bothered about leaving evidence of who'd done it, hence why if people wanted to contact me to find out who payed me to do it or why then i had no reason not to tell them. In most cases this was what happened during the time i bothered with it, on the side i created album covers and distributed merch for local bands so it was if anything the "night shift" to the work i generated for myself. I quit it due to laziness and also i saw no reason to bother getting involved with petty squabbles anymore.

By all means if you think i should be punished for it then what fitting punishment should i have? Knowing it only happened for a year, when i was 14, on a small scale and i haven't bothered with it since.

Your talking as if i was in league with people who've looted from chav stores. Its nothing like that at all lol.
 
Just look through the previous pages again, i've already had this once, read what reasons i support and which ones i don't then stop your childishness.

Thanks
 
So whatdyu guys think of the evictions etc?

Some of it is justified I think, some is overkill, like one girl slept through the riots, her friend had looted some shorts and gave them to her when she got back and the girl got jailtime for it. Seems pretty harsh, even if she knew they were stolen.
 
Yes, let's make problems of unemployment and feelings of nihilistic worthlessness among the underclass better by making them homeless. That'll improve impoverished inner-city areas tenfold!

This government is just a f*cking joke.
 
ayase said:
Yes, let's make problems of unemployment and feelings of nihilistic worthlessness among the underclass better by making them homeless. That'll improve impoverished inner-city areas tenfold!

This government is just a f*cking joke.
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Agreed. They should evict the criminals from the country, not just their council houses. I don't care whether they were born here or in another country, crime and criminals should not be allowed to continue to exist in this country.
 
Oh, enough, Light Yagami. A crime is a crime because the government says it is. Committing a "crime" doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person, some laws are wrong. "If they don't follow these rules written down here then they should forfeit their rights and be cast out" sounds a lot like the kind of views espoused by religious extremists.

Besides, there's no point being tough on crime if you're going to ignore the goddamn causes of crime, as Tony Blair once lied to us about.
 
I think its complete ******** to be honest. If anyone thinks evicting a person and their whole family from a council flat is going to in anyway improve the situation, then they are just beyond stupid, nuff said. Then that family really will have no chioce but to become criminals.
 
Agreed Vash. The real criminals should definitely be punished, the arsonists and more violent rioters, but eviction is not the answer, and certainly not of the entire family. Evict an entire family because of one bad egg (in some cases anyway) then why not throw out the government because some claimed wrongful expenses? It's flawed logic.
 
ayase said:
Oh, enough, Light Yagami. A crime is a crime because the government says it is. Committing a "crime" doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person, some laws are wrong. "If they don't follow these rules written down here then they should forfeit their rights and be cast out" sounds a lot like the kind of views espoused by religious extremists.
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Not all crimes make those who commit them bad people, but the violence, theft and vandalism of the riots are the kind of crimes that do. Appreciate the comparison btw. ;)
 
I thought you might. If I was making the laws, "Putting already poor people out of work for several generations and turning them into an underclass with no hope for the future" would be one of the worse crimes. Even if they aren't personally aware of the fact, these are just the children of Thatcherism coming back to get their revenge on the unfair society which created them. And society deserves it.
 
ayase said:
I thought you might. If I was making the laws, "Putting already poor people out of work for several generations and turning them into an underclass with no hope for the future" would be one of the worse crimes. Even if they aren't personally aware of the fact, these are just the children of Thatcherism coming back to get their revenge on the unfair society which created them. And society deserves it.
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Government deserves it. Society.....maybe. Individuals within society? Not at all. None of the shop keepers and other people deserved to have their property damaged or destroyed.
 
What's society made up of? Who gives government their power if it isn't individuals? No-one is innocent. We're all culpable for not keeping our government in check and for standing for such an unequal society. People don't know what they've got 'til it's gone (except, of course, for those with nothing to lose).

So you voted for someone else, you've protested against the government - Good for you, but I realised back in '03 that peaceful protest does nothing, and then finally last year that voting does nothing either. The only people not deserving of blame for the way society is are those actively working to bring down the government. And undermining their authority is a good place to start.
 
There will never be enough support to bring any significant change that way. If you do it Norwegian-style, people will rally against you in support of your victims.

We're buggered either way really.
 
Mutsumi said:
There will never be enough support to bring any significant change that way. If you do it Norwegian-style, people will rally against you in support of your victims.
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Nor would I wish to advocate such a move. And yes, it seems like the Daily Mail brigade which constitute this country's inhabitants are fully behind Tory-boy and the police... For now. We'll see if they stay there when they can no longer find work, when utility bills are up 50% and the price of petrol is pushing two quid a litre.

We'll know for certain when the police turn round and start marching in the same direction as the rioters. Like I say, I think at some point there's either going to be a full scale revolt or the people in power are going to have to dispose of a large number of the population in order to prevent one. I keep wondering if they've got another war lined up somewhere.
 
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