The official thread for discussions about anime pricing (including Aniplex USA pricing)

I'm not trying to say that their importance is to do with plot relevance overall (although I realise it came off that way, sorry). What I'm saying is that removing them loses nothing of importance to the plot, they don't break it so you can release the series quite happily without the plot not making sense or anything similar.

I believe that OVA's are very important overall, but I don't expect them in a release of the TV series either. They don't make or break a release for me and never have and probably never will. Side stories and such are wonderful things and I do like that OVA's and I do want to own them, but I think complaining about them being cut out of the UK release is misplaced. If it was a numbered episode of the series, sure, but I think you can get away with losing an OVA or two - especially when there is a good chance they'll be released on their own later on. It's not like they're lost to the world forever.
 
Demelza said:
I'm not trying to say that their importance is to do with plot relevance overall (although I realise it came off that way, sorry). What I'm saying is that removing them loses nothing of importance to the plot, they don't break it so you can release the series quite happily without the plot not making sense or anything similar.

I believe that OVA's are very important overall, but I don't expect them in a release of the TV series either. They don't make or break a release for me and never have and probably never will. Side stories and such are wonderful things and I do like that OVA's and I do want to own them, but I think complaining about them being cut out of the UK release is misplaced. If it was a numbered episode of the series, sure, but I think you can get away with losing an OVA or two - especially when there is a good chance they'll be released on their own later on. It's not like they're lost to the world forever.
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Well, they are numbered, but with a decimal point.
 
For me personally, I was really really really looking forward to the OVAs, so of course I was disappointed when AL didn't get them.

But I was more annoyed that AL couldn't even keep their story consistent. I get that it's a conversation they'd rather not have, but changing the story every time you tell it is just silly.

Demelza said:
I believe that OVA's are very important overall, but I don't expect them in a release of the TV series either. They don't make or break a release for me and never have and probably never will. Side stories and such are wonderful things and I do like that OVA's and I do want to own them, but I think complaining about them being cut out of the UK release is misplaced. If it was a numbered episode of the series, sure, but I think you can get away with losing an OVA or two - especially when there is a good chance they'll be released on their own later on. It's not like they're lost to the world forever.
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All three are numbered episodes of the series, hence my objection to AL's use of the phrase "Contains Episodes 1-12", as it doesn't contain episodes 1-12, it contains integer episodes 1-12. I was told I was being silly, but I genuinely think that's a misleading choice of phrasing (though I doubt it was chosen deliberately.)
 
Let's be honest though, as Anime Ltd are pretty much the only UK distributor that authors their own discs - if the OVAs for a show aren't on the US release (for Manga / MVM titles) there's very little chance of getting them.

In Japan, the OVAs serve a specific purpose to get fans to pay for each and every volume that comes out - whereas here, they tend to be collected together as supplementary extras. There's the added cost to subtitle them too.

Of course, all of this comes back to the thing of exactly what purpose physical editions serve these days - are they the primary means of watching a show, or are they archival / 'collectors' editions for a select few that still place value on physical media - for example, if Crunchyroll reliable got OVAs for every series they streamed (as opposed to just a few test cases like Sound Euphonium / Ancient Magus Bride) then it'd be quite a different situation too.
 
Buzz201 said:
For me personally, I was really really really looking forward to the OVAs, so of course I was disappointed when AL didn't get them.

But I was more annoyed that AL couldn't even keep their story consistent. I get that it's a conversation they'd rather not have, but changing the story every time you tell it is just silly.



All three are numbered episodes of the series, hence my objection to AL's use of the phrase "Contains Episodes 1-12", as it doesn't contain episodes 1-12, it contains integer episodes 1-12. I was told I was being silly, but I genuinely think that's a misleading choice of phrasing (though I doubt it was chosen deliberately.)
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At this point, we should long be used to the names of releases being lies. "Complete Collection"s are rarely complete, so why should "Contains Episodes 1-12" be true?
 
Buzz201 said:
All three are numbered episodes of the series, hence my objection to AL's use of the phrase "Contains Episodes 1-12", as it doesn't contain episodes 1-12, it contains integer episodes 1-12. I was told I was being silly, but I genuinely think that's a misleading choice of phrasing (though I doubt it was chosen deliberately.)
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Honestly, that's probably where we differ in opinion because I don't really count a .5 episode as a numbered episode. It's just a convenient way of telling you where you should be watching it if it happens to be released after the series is or on a BD with certain episodes.
 
Jaysgba said:
At this point, we should long be used to the names of releases being lies. "Complete Collection"s are rarely complete, so why should "Contains Episodes 1-12" be true?
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You could maybe argue "Complete" is subjective. I would like to see you try and argue 4.5 doesn't fall between 1 and 12...
 
Lutga said:
Of course, all of this comes back to the thing of exactly what purpose physical editions serve these days - are they the primary means of watching a show, or are they archival / 'collectors' editions for a select few that still place value on physical media - for example, if Crunchyroll reliable got OVAs for every series they streamed (as opposed to just a few test cases like Sound Euphonium / Ancient Magus Bride) then it'd be quite a different situation too.
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Wouldn't the OVAs basically be essential for either potential purpose of the physical edition? If it's the main way to watch the show then having some content missing would mean it's not meeting that purpose, if it's for collector/archive purposes then it needs to include all of the content to ensure that it'll all still be available for future use. Any release (or set of releases) that doesn't include all of the content is insufficient, either way.

The point about the OVAs being unavailable for streaming is interesting. I seem to recall comments from Aniplex that they were committed to having their shows available streaming so that everyone could enjoy and appreciate them, they're not really sticking to that if they're restricting OVAs. I couldn't say for sure that Crunchyroll weren't offered the OVAs, so it's possible there's another reason that they don't have them, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

You could argue that OVAs are "bonus" content but they are animated content that is directly related to the show. Having them as a separate release might be reasonable but making them exclusive for certain customers is unfair to both fans and the show itself.
 
Shou 4.5 is the best ep of Arc 1. I am glad I went for the AoA sets but the promise of maybe getting a OVA collection isnt good enough. And they can F off with the Asterisk scenario.
 
I can see the Japanese fans being mad if the home video exclusive incentives (OAV episodes) are just handed out for free overseas. But at the same time I completely agree that a release missing the content available in other regions isn't cricket. Thankfully my cashflow issues mean that I have yet to have to make the decision myself (and consequently, I've still not seen the missing episodes) but if I could afford to import it would be a no brainer; it's content any fan paying for an archive copy will naturally want to have. Still hoping that AL can manage to do a separate release for the OAVs since they're arguably 'worth' more than the show itself as long as they're home video exclusive material. That would be an absolute deal (and still rather controversial on the Japanese side).

R
 
Rui said:
I can see the Japanese fans being mad if the home video exclusive incentives (OAV episodes) are just handed out for free overseas. But at the same time I completely agree that a release missing the content available in other regions isn't cricket. Thankfully my cashflow issues mean that I have yet to have to make the decision myself (and consequently, I've still not seen the missing episodes) but if I could afford to import it would be a no brainer; it's content any fan paying for an archive copy will naturally want to have. Still hoping that AL can manage to do a separate release for the OAVs since they're arguably 'worth' more than the show itself as long as they're home video exclusive material. That would be an absolute deal (and still rather controversial on the Japanese side).

R
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To be honest, it's my fault for convincing myself AoA never locked OVAs up and getting really excited for them. I've learned my lesson (AoA will **** on all your dreams, and then rich people will moan at you for criticising them), that won't happen again.

But as I said earlier, I was kind of more annoyed that we couldn't get a straight story either way, so I didn't know who to be upset with.
 
Buzz201 said:
To be honest, it's my fault for convincing myself AoA never locked OVAs up and getting really excited for them. I've learned my lesson (AoA will **** on all your dreams, and then rich people will moan at you for criticising them), that won't happen again.

But as I said earlier, I was kind of more annoyed that we couldn't get a straight story either way, so I didn't know who to be upset with.
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Just stick to what you always do, hate everyone equally.
 
IncendiaryLemon said:
Just stick to what you always do, hate everyone equally.
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Contrary to what my posting habits would suggest AL are my favourite anime distributor and I have more of their titles than anybody else's (except Warner, Fox, Universal and Sony, but they don't count :p). I certainly don't hate them, I just haven't been happy with some of their business and marketing decisions. It might seem like I hate them more than other distributors, but it happens that AL has all of the titles now, and before they had all of the titles, they still had the vast majority of the ones I wanted to buy anyway, so AL as a business is more important to me.

I don't want to blame Andrew for the DRR!!x2 OVA scuffle, but at the same time if AoA offered it to him and for whatever reasons he chose not to take it, it's not their fault.
 
I guess the thing I always say to console myself when stuff is missing from UK releases is 'Well, it's either what we've got, or nothing' - because most likely, with the UK market in the state it's in that's probably the case. The market is so unbelievably small that in many respects we're lucky to be getting anything - so if some of a UK distributor's business decisions seem on the face of it 'bad', it's probably because a prohibitive cost was attached to the alternative that would have made the release a complete no-go.
 
My understanding with DRRR specifically is that the cost would have had to be higher to include them, so Andrew and co had to choose between the bad feedback over unaffordable releases and the (as-yet uncharted) bad feedback over missing content, which Animatsu and MVM have weathered successfully in the past. I would much rather they chose the other way - sales might improve the price problems but missing content is usually missing forever - but I think AL's responsiveness to our comments is a dangerous even while it's also helping improve the products. We don't half moan about absolutely everything (myself included) which must make it tough to understand what our priorities really are. Jerome's comments over the years have made it very clear that he's struggled to understand what fans really want, especially as those 'fans' come in all different shapes and sizes.

R
 
Well in my perspective, I think a lot of Jerome's decisions with Manga came from applying a more generalistic 'UK media market / DVD market' approach to the UK anime industry. So in essence, sound business sense for the media industry as a whole (basically, the UK DVD market circa 2005-2010), but unfortunately tactics that increasingly became less relevant to a super niche market like anime.

You only have to look back to 2006 to see the real 'glory days' of Manga - Naruto volumes were selling over 10,000 copies a pop, and they were riding high off the back of GITS SAC. Unfortunately, streaming came along and in the space of just two or three years pretty much singlehandedly decimated the UK DVD market as a whole, meaning stuff that probably used to sell over 7000 copies is now lucky to do over 2000.

What's left is a market where the old tactics - at the unfortunate expense of the consumer - no longer work. Of course, we'd all like to buy a complete series set of Madoka for £20 (in line with 'normal' telly box sets) but now, the only way these companies can make money is artificially inflate the price of the sets to make back the money they originally would have accounted for through volume of sales.
 
Rui said:
I can see the Japanese fans being mad if the home video exclusive incentives (OAV episodes) are just handed out for free overseas. But at the same time I completely agree that a release missing the content available in other regions isn't cricket.
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I have to admit, I've always found the concept of exclusivity to be a bit silly. Other people not having something doesn't make your copy any better. It's especially bad when the exclusivity is artificial and used as an excuse to charge higher prices/make greater profits. I suppose I understand the psychological component, where a person feels fortunate to be one of the lucky few, but it still seems kind of silly.

It's maybe worth mentioning that not all "limited editions" would really qualify as artificially exclusive, there are obviously going to be some practical considerations. If there happens to be a demand for 1003 copies and printing can only be done in batches of 500, then it's easier to justify having those three people miss out (even if it is unfortunate).

Still, I suppose my main point is that it seems a bit sad for fans to feel that their experience is improved by knowing that other fans are missing out.
 
It's kind of ironic really, when you see the pricing structure in Japan. Anime is sold at insane prices (and I'm not even just talking about the £40 - £60 individual volumes that have 4 eps on them - let's not forget the £300 / £400 complete box sets) because it's a collectors market and the people in charge want it to stay that way. Sales are low and dropping all the time - even in Japan, many shows fail to sell over 1000 copies per volume.

And then you look at manga on the other hand, where each volume is less than £5 and even so-so series regularly sell over 100,000 copies per volume.
 
There is a strong reading culture over there though, whereas there isn't a strong 'collect a huge library of videos in your tiny house' culture. It's all on TV for 'free' every day so only the wealthy need to consider stocking up on anything other than their absolute favourite titles. I don't think they would crack that even if anime was priced a lot lower.

(And even though books sell well, they're recycled and resold almost immediately in most cases. Building up a huge collection of anything is viewed as rather eccentric, unlike here where it's everyone's aspiration.)

R
 
Probably one of the reasons why the 2nd hand manga market here is so poor - people hold on to their stuff!

Think the only manga I ever see going cheaply second hand is old volumes of Naruto / Yu-Gi-Oh which probably sold thousands of copies.
 
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