The Gundam Thread

Fair. For me Kamille was far more annoying. I think with Judau a big issue was motivation. He spends way too long only concerned with his sister and that story line went on far too long. Luckily that and the Ple story line ended up being important and meaningful so it wasnt a complete waste but it didnt need to go on for as many episodes as it did.

At least in the end they did get him more invested in the war.
 
I'm the minority I know but I thought the "muh sister" arc was refreshing tbh. Made Judou seem more human to me since it was obvious what his motivation was. And I enjoyed the downtime between the more serious stuff.
 
Vincentdante said:
I'm the minority I know but I thought the "muh sister" arc was refreshing tbh. Made Judou seem more human to me since it was obvious what his motivation was. And I enjoyed the downtime between the more serious stuff.
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My only real issue was how long it went on for. As a story idea I thought it was good. And once they were on earth and heading to the resolution it was very good and had great impact on several characters. Just wish the part in space where the show was a bit aimless was shorter.
 
Heres some thoughts on the next Gundam title I watched earlier this week.

Char's Counter Attack

Overall I enjoyed it. The animation was a clear step up from the tv serieses that preceded it. It was also great to have Amaro and Char back as main characters duking it out. Having said that I feel the story was perhaps a but too big for a film and would have worked better as a 12 episode series.

Dont get me wrong I loved that it jumped straight into the action and wouldnt change that. It mostly stems from there being an abundance of new characters in major and minor roles that dont get to be as well fleshed out as they would have been in a series. Quess being the biggest victim of this. Shes this insane, apathetic yet passionate sociopath who's story never really made much sense to me until the boys had an exposition discussion about her after she had left the story.

I feel this mostly stems from her introduction which could've been much better in letting us know what the themes of her story were meant to be. Kids verses adults has been a part of all 3 Gundam series I've seen so far so it was interesting to see them try to handle Amaro becoming more of a father figure this time round with Quess and Hathaway as the kids. Again though it was good to see tackled would've been better, in my view, if done in a series.

I think I'll rewatch this again at some point as I feel I'll probably take more from it knowing the ending (and Quess' character better) already.
 
WMD said:
Kamille came back more or less as a mute which did him wonders.
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I chuckled.

WMD said:
It was also really interesting to see how this bunch of kids never really became soldiers and retained a much greater independence that in the previous seasons
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I think a big difference between Zeta and ZZ is in attitudes to how kids are treated in the story. In MSG and Zeta, Amuro and Kamille are slapped and kicked around until they man up (though where Kamille is concerned, it may actually have been ever-so-slightly satisfying at times) which ultimately brings them little other than to emotionally wreck them.

In ZZ, the boot's kinda on the other foot, literally. I don't know how intentional it all was, but I have to suspect quite, given the fact ZZ featured a scene of Judeu beating the sh*t out of Wong Lee (who'd previously beaten the sh*t out of Kamille in Zeta) and having the show pretty much end with him punching Captain Bright.

As such, I feel less like the two shows are jarringly different to one another (something it seems a lot of people do feel) and more a logical progression of the same belief - If war is crap for the younger generation and causes them to suffer through no real fault of their own (Zeta) then actually, they should stand up to the older generation and stop it or at least refuse to take part in it (ZZ).

Or to put it another way, if Zeta Gundam is Where Have All the Flowers Gone then ZZ is Children of the Grave.

WMD said:
Ple
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Still the worst transliteration ever.
 
ayase said:
I chuckled.


I think a big difference between Zeta and ZZ is in attitudes to how kids are treated in the story. In MSG and Zeta, Amuro and Kamille are slapped and kicked around until they man up (though where Kamille is concerned, it may actually have been ever-so-slightly satisfying at times) which ultimately brings them little other than to emotionally wreck them.

In ZZ, the boot's kinda on the other foot, literally. I don't know how intentional it all was, but I have to suspect quite, given the fact ZZ featured a scene of Judeu beating the sh*t out of Wong Lee (who'd previously beaten the sh*t out of Kamille in Zeta) and having the show pretty much end with him punching Captain Bright.

As such, I feel less like the two shows are jarringly different to one another (something it seems a lot of people do feel) and more a logical progression of the same belief - If war is crap for the younger generation and causes them to suffer through no real fault of their own (Zeta) then actually, they should stand up to the older generation and stop it or at least refuse to take part in it (ZZ).

Or to put it another way, if Zeta Gundam is Where Have All the Flowers Gone then ZZ is Children of the Grave.


Still the worst transliteration ever.
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I agree. Once you've seen the saga as a whole it's very interesting to see how each part assesses childhood to adulthood. MSG forces the kids to grow up and it doesnt go great for them. Even in CCA Amuro hasn't really been able to grow up and move on. In Zeta the kids want to be seen as adults which just causes a lot of resentment and it ends very badly for Kamille. In ZZ the kids reject the war and attitudes of the adults and do what they think is right. And they are the only ones to obtain any sort of happy ever after.

As a thematic trilogy it's very good in that sense.
 
WMD said:
is that what it's supposed to be?
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Bit o' Ctrl+C Ctrl+V laziness:
ayase said:
My favourite attempted use of English though is of course the name of Gundam ZZ character Elpeo Ple, a reference to a magazine referred to as "L-People" and was meant to be pronounced the same... However not only does Japanese not have an "L" sound (nor as far as I'm aware can a word end with a consonant sound other than "n") but it's far from obvious to anyone whose first language is English that the written text "ple" when separated out on its own should be pronounced like the second syllable of the word "people" - Like "pull" with a near-silent "u" rather than what 99.8% of people would presume upon seeing it, that it should sound like "plea" or "pleh". This led even official material to transcribe her name in three different ways as Ple (how it's spelled) Pull (closest to how it should sound in English) and Puru (how it sounds in Japanese).
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Now that I think about it, perhaps the best way of writing her name the way it sounds would actually be P’l.
 
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WMD said:
Haha is that what it's supposed to be?! I wonder how they ended up with Ple. It did get weird when her sister turned up and everyone was fine with her name being Ple-two.
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Yeah most media translate it to Puru including the games as that is how it's pronounced in japanese.
Puru-two is a strange name yes but got to differentiate them somehow :p

EDIT: ninja'd by Ayase with better explanation
 
To finish up the Gundam I've watched recently are the Thunderbolt films

December Sky
Oh my god! This was incredible. Easily the best Gundam I've watched so far. The animation was spectacular, the story gripping and well paced, the characters interesting, the music great. I loved how it really showed us the awful effects, physical and psychological, that war can have on a person. I more or less consider it to be perfect.

Bandits Flower
Still loved this though not as much as the first. Watched them back to back and this one didnt quite live up to the first for me. I think in part because of the change in setting from a very bleak space location to a brighter on earth location but also because the two main characters stories didnt really come together. I didnt realise it was originally a web series and it does make more sense now. The reveal that Claudia was still alive felt a little cheap and undermines December Sky a bit too but oh well. I was still very engrossed in what was happening and really hope they go back to making more of it!
 
WMD said:
To finish up the Gundam I've watched recently are the Thunderbolt films

December Sky
Oh my god! This was incredible. Easily the best Gundam I've watched so far. The animation was spectacular, the story gripping and well paced, the characters interesting, the music great. I loved how it really showed us the awful effects, physical and psychological, that war can have on a person. I more or less consider it to be perfect.

Bandits Flower
Still loved this though not as much as the first. Watched them back to back and this one didnt quite live up to the first for me. I think in part because of the change in setting from a very bleak space location to a brighter on earth location but also because the two main characters stories didnt really come together. I didnt realise it was originally a web series and it does make more sense now. The reveal that Claudia was still alive felt a little cheap and undermines December Sky a bit too but oh well. I was still very engrossed in what was happening and really hope they go back to making more of it!
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Fully agree December Sky was absolutely amazing. Bandit Flower is imo an example of not knowing when to stop.

Btw if you dig the side stories I heartily recomend checking out 0080 War in the Pocket if you can. That is lowkey my favorite with what Gundam has to offer.
 
Vincentdante said:
Fully agree December Sky was absolutely amazing. Bandit Flower is imo an example of not knowing when to stop.

Btw if you dig the side stories I heartily recomend checking out 0080 War in the Pocket if you can. That is lowkey my favorite with what Gundam has to offer.
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War in the Pocket is great. Another suggestion would be 08th MS Team, one of my favourite Gundam series.
 
I watched Bandit Flower for the first time today. I feel the same way as WMD did about a certain reveal. That was a bit overboard. Other than that it was on par with December Sky for me. I really like ground and water combat so I got everything I wished for :D
Especially when there is a tactical scheme of an attack. Coordination seems like a zeon thing and I like watching them, if it works out for them or not.

Animation work for both movies was really awesome.

What I think was a really intense scene was the underwater fight with the rising pressure taking down the immobile zeon mobile suit first and Io / Atlas sinking without a chance of recovery on its own.

The only thing that is so typical Japanese that it annoys me is the intention of incerting a "theme". One guy is the drummer and the girl of course jumps in on Jazz music and is of course really into the same song and of course plays an instrument so they can jam together...come on... ;)
 
I finally received my set of Zeta Gundam Blu Rays today. That means I am off to rewatch the series that made me a fan in the first place. I instantly watched the first two episodes and it is exceptionell how often everyone sreams "Kamille" in the first episode. Unbelievable.
Now after several years I am glad to finally have this series at home. The stream I watched the series the first time, and yes I have to admit that it definitely wasnt leagal, was so ******, that I am suprised what details I can spot now.

I also have to say that the series, despite the opening, is a bit hard on the eye in terms of picture movement (quality). Especially in space the unsteady picture is tough. Has anyone else noticed this?
But to be honest that part that was a true downer - where is the original Japanese opening with the great intro song?
I didnt even know that the international version had this strange fanfare...
 
Bannion said:
where is the original Japanese opening with the great intro song?
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It's a licensing issue, it's been the case since the DVD era. I don't know if Neil Sedaka is just too expensive or whether the rights are too complicated to sort out with them being rearrangements of his songs also involving Japanese artists.
 
that is exactly the answer I didnt want to get :D I thought so but it is interesting to know that the problem dates back to the DVD release. Thanks for the update!
 
ayase said:
It's a licensing issue, it's been the case since the DVD era. I don't know if Neil Sedaka is just too expensive or whether the rights are too complicated to sort out with them being rearrangements of his songs also involving Japanese artists.
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It's because his daughter was supposed to sing English versions of the intros. The Japanese language versions are only licenced for use in Asia, the English version was supposed to be used for all other territories.

While Neil Sedaka did English versions of some of the songs,not all of them were recorded.
 
I have finished Zeta Gundam today (again). It was my second run and the first in English. It took me around a month to complete and I still think that it is a really great show. I also believe that the English version makes Kamille a bit more enjoyable. They toned him down a little and that suits him.

What really struck me was the bigger scope. I think it is not a spoiler if you know that they are fighting in space and on earth but for every faction it is actually difficult to get up there and come back down again (intentional or unintentional).

I am a fan of snow settings, so the Himalayas battle was also a small highlight for me :) However the true final battle still seemed rushed to me. Scirocco could have had a better end-fight, especially because we have rarely seen his suit. The "chubby" mobile suit design was quite likeable. Haman Karn and Bright could have a more fleshed out ending sequence as well. At least take some time to close out the series but they kept it as fast paced as ever - even in the final shots.

I think I will rest with Gundam a bit and start ZZ for the first time.
 
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