The General Conversation Area

ilmaestro said:
Forgive me for being presumptuous about a lady's age for a moment, but I was under the impression you were a little older than me, which would put you *just* (imo) at the end of the period where it was not seen as such a formality to stay on for sixth form/college and then attend Uni.

I think the pressure these days on kids to go all the way through education is beyond unreasonable by comparison, and agree with Maxon's comment about how early people are largely forced into making huge decisions.

I'm not sure how it is elsewhere, but at my rather posh grammar school (which was utterly unsuited to my personality!) we weren't supposed to be able to leave. I was automatically signed up to the sixth form then just stopped going after realising it was more of the same, and they refused to unsubscribe me so technically I have A Levels, all of which I failed through 'absence' as I hadn't been in school for over a year. It was harder to deal with the administration and attempts to shame me than just continuing would have been, absurdly.

I do think that nowadays people automatically assume everyone passes through the system in the expected way, and indeed I've found that when looking for jobs. My boss occasionally remembers I have no degree and exclaims in surprise (especially as I helped her daughter with her own university acceptance process). People all mature differently and some need a chance to get out and experience the world before being taken to the next level. I'd have got nothing out of university, the way I was back then.

All of my close friends were uni graduates, having met up there and shared a hobby of anime, so I think there's some truth to FourthLion's assumption about how a lot of people start out. I just sort of butted in later.

R
 
'Posh grammar school totally unsuited to my personality' takes me back! Though I'm surprised they didn't let you unsubscribe, mine was totally the other way. If you weren't going to pass a subject at A level they made you drop it, if you weren't going to pass any they made you leave... all so they could put '100% A level passes x years in a row' on the prospectus.

Interesting you say there might be truth to my theory when almost everyone in here has come out and said they didn't do uni. I wonder if most people who did get into anime at uni etc just don't come on here as they already have plenty of people to share it with? Personally only 1 of my friends likes anime and is in no way as into it as myself so i fidn it pretty hard to talk about with anyone.

I actually liked most of my education and it has served me very well, I actually regret not staying on to study further and do research rather than stepping back out into the bland world of office working (after my maths BSc I used to study Evolutionary and Adaptive Systems and got to play with robots and AI algorithms etc which is much more fun than my current QA job, I just don't think I'm cut out for writing journals and essays on it all).
 
MaxonTreik said:
That's another thing that rustles my jimmies. Education makes you hate the thing you like if it's taught wrong. It happened with my first time in college, and it's happening right now.

religious schools are the worst at that too.
i mean why should kids be put in religious schools *islam, cathlic, jewish, ect* i dont like the idea of a religious school teaching kids ( i saw this episode of panarama of muslim kids being taught to hate others that isn't a muslim, they also beat the kids) i know no school system is perfect but having separate schools cause of what your parents believe isn't good for you.

all these religious schools should be knocked down, the public schools should be runned by academy schools and then everyone will be taught the same
 
FourthLion said:
'Posh grammar school totally unsuited to my personality' takes me back! Though I'm surprised they didn't let you unsubscribe, mine was totally the other way. If you weren't going to pass a subject at A level they made you drop it, if you weren't going to pass any they made you leave... all so they could put '100% A level passes x years in a row' on the prospectus.

Ha, that's familiar too. In my case, I was unfortunately regarded as 'academically gifted' (a completely meaningless achievement in the real world) and was regularly a top scorer in the school - and the region - on tests etc. They wanted my scores on their records in order to look better, and until it had become so bad that I just stopped participating entirely they weren't willing to help me, since I was still doing well in their eyes. If I had been an underachiever I'm sure they'd have been happy to sweep me under the rug whether I liked it or not >_<

Of course I wasn't clever enough to figure this out at the time or I could have changed the way it all played out simply by behaving differently. Hindsight is a pain.

R
 
FourthLion said:
Interesting you say there might be truth to my theory when almost everyone in here has come out and said they didn't do uni. I wonder if most people who did get into anime at uni etc just don't come on here as they already have plenty of people to share it with? Personally only 1 of my friends likes anime and is in no way as into it as myself so i fidn it pretty hard to talk about with anyone.

Guess I'm part of the minority as I went to Uni. During my time there I got into anime and manga though it wasn't because of my time there. I got into anime due to some anime films on BBC2 and an anime season of Channel 4 which aired while I was at uni. I got into manga due to picking up a few while browsing the sci-fi book section in the WH Smiths in the city centre as well as my brother telling me about a comic book shop in the area (he studied at a different uni in the same city as me).

For the record I didn't make any friends at uni who were also into anime or manga.

Note - I read western comics when I was younger. During my time in Uni I got back into reading them so getting interested in manga wasn't much of a leap.
 
I got into anime and manga during my time at uni, more through the results of random youtube browsing than anything else.

Like mangaman, I didn't make any friends at uni that shared the interest in anime and manga. I did try going to the uni's anime society, but the people there were a little too OTT for me, and I only ended up going to one session.
 
FourthLion said:
@Tachi... armchair? Do you mean a swivelly one or one like a living room armchair? That would be insane. I have 3 22" monitors on my desk, but it feels much more like a necessity than a perk since I'm usually using them all in my role. Chair is shocking.
Being allowed to listen to everyone's phonecalls seems a bit outrageous too. I sure no one has listened in on some of mine...

Swivel chair but with arm rests and padding above the usual crappy foam stuff.

I've just left a department with 2 monitors side by side so i know were your coming from, im just amazed at the level of money and effort put into this new service is truly upto and beyond my original expectations. Bare in mind my old department pc took 20minutes to load up the login screen and a further 20 to load log in scripts for windows.

As for the whole school topic:

Personally i left school at 16 and started working in an I.T Department for the NHS, i was not overly impressive on paper (gcse's were and still aren't my idea of a fair or worthwhile folly to adhere to, instead i focused on my strengths than what i may want in a career path - so art and storywriting)

Though i was accepted for the best college in the county i continued working, this was to be my initial flaw. I worked on through the summer as my friends went to college and worked their socks off, i went to night classes at a different college than first expected and only continued for half of the course - again my ability to stand by a moment longer in the company of pretentious and self centred teachers who didn't give a toss about the course but more their reputation left me wondering if i'd made a mistake, should i have continued with my original plan to be an architect?

Still i continued to work, moved departments and moved from post to post (job title to job title) with a steady but slow increase in wage each year.

Im a firm believer ifnot a model for the following: Its not academical knowledge that will progress you further in life, its having a foundation to build yourself higher.

Without doing all the crap jobs i've done over the year i wouldn't be in this new department, all those jobs brought experience to the table, not grades.

So let the kids leave at 14 and give them a headstart on the world, you won't learn half of what you use in the real world from a textbook.
 
This is going to sound horribly elitist, but I would have loved to have had the opportunity of going to a meritocratic grammar school and left behind my useless high school and it's horrible mixed-ability classes. Yes, let's slow down and lower the quality of everyone's education for the (dubious) benefit of the less interested and less intelligent. Bollocks. Classes should be taught according to ability and people who don't want to be there should be kicked out. My sister (who had a largely horrible time at school and left at 13 and simply refused to go back) expressed much the same sentiments to me recently without prompting.

Almost none of my decision to leave education was due to lack of interest or willingness to learn, it was being sick of people and their attitudes - And that was 50% teachers, 50% students. Ten years down the line, I've found that the combined bad attitudes of people both in and subject to authority unfortunately weren't confined to the education system.
 
If I may use a similarly elitist response, grammar schools aren't much good either for that. We were segregated by ability and the school itself was difficult to get into, but there were still a huge number of people there who either didn't want to be there or just weren't at all academic, somehow. Part of this was because anyone with a sister at the school automatically qualified for entry (a rule designed to ease the strain on parents, but it meant standards were poor). The end result was I was in the top set for absolutely everything, even subjects I freely admit I completely suck at, such as French. And we still seemed to spend most lessons with everyone just mucking around or asking the same dumb questions rather than actually learning anything.

The core problem with our school system is the idea that clumping everyone into groups of thirty or so students from varied backgrounds and marching through a standardised national syllabus with no attempt to adapt anything to the pupils is flawed. It works for a few people and for everyone else it's just a sloppy mess.

I did take one subject with a smaller class size (Latin, which had six students in the whole year) and we did concentrate much better on the material that way. But even then we were hampered by the overall structure being about blitzing through a syllabus, rather than properly learning the subject material. It's no way to understand anything.

R
 
I dunno. My high school was **** but at the very least people were separated into classes according to their level: Advanced Higher > Higher > Intermediate 2 > Intermediate 1 > Access (this one was rare due to being made for people with special needs or the unintelligent). Then again, that is the Scottish system and what little I know of the English system never made much sense to me.
 
My favourite thing about the English school system is... we don't seem to have one? Or I guess we actually have a choice of about three.

I moved from the first school>middle school>upper school system to the junior>primary>secondary system after the first year of middle school, which meant I ended up going to 4 different schools over 4 years from just one move. It's a wonder I even got to a grammar school (although I think a big reason for my parents moving was to ensure I got a better education).

I have a different view of my grammar again, I feel mine was very elitist and certainly no one got in just because their sibling did. I took further maths at A level (essentially a double A level in maths in the same timeframe as a single A level) and there were only 7 of us in the year who opted to do it and I have to say I was firmly 7th in the group in terms of exam results (though I imagine had I been in any other group in the school I'd have been higher?). I did somehow get 'best in school' everytime I took the 'maths challenge' though, if anyone else did that? Love that sorta stuff, shame exams weren't like that at all.
 
ayase said:
This is going to sound horribly elitist, but I would have loved to have had the opportunity of going to a meritocratic grammar school and left behind my useless high school and it's horrible mixed-ability classes.
An alma mater open to the fullest breadth of the proletariat may humble one somewhat, but it has its merits: I, for one, am able to absorb a myriad of punches from assailants up to and including the light flyweight division.
(I am far from vindictive concerning such episodes, I must note. Condemnant quod non intellegunt.)
My strategy during altercations was, and in cases of duress still is, to curl into a compacted area so as to minimise the surface area vulnerable.
 
ayase said:
chaos said:
People talking about work and I'm here jobless....
Join the club... Still, maybe we'll see you around here a bit more often eh? :p
I'll try to post more frequently now, but can't promise anything. My being jobless was kinda self inflicted.
I'm working on some internet startup ideas of mine, as well as helping making a short movie. I'm quite busy at the moment, with so much going on, which is quite scary and exciting at the same time.

ayase said:
I should probably just bite the bullet and take up politics or investment banking.
Why not? If you get an office you should pass a law enforcing 10% of the TV schedules to be anime and an extra 10% to be animation in general =P

MaxonTreik said:
Not knowing what you want to do with your life at your age is fine. People getting forced into thinking about careers at such an early age is stupid and is why I hate it when schools think their only responsibility is to get you into university instead of preparing you for the rest of your life.
Amen.
Are you the one I've known as Maxon previously?
 
Rui said:
I'm not sure how it is elsewhere, but at my rather posh grammar school (which was utterly unsuited to my personality!) we weren't supposed to be able to leave. I was automatically signed up to the sixth form then just stopped going after realising it was more of the same, and they refused to unsubscribe me so technically I have A Levels, all of which I failed through 'absence' as I hadn't been in school for over a year. It was harder to deal with the administration and attempts to shame me than just continuing would have been, absurdly.
Very classy of them. :-/ It's incredibly disappointing that you couldn't get better individual treatment, even within a selective school, and even more impressive how well you've done since.

But yes, your situation now only sounds even more individual and less relevant to the general debate, if that doesn't sound too offensive (I'm sure you were aware of that without someone else saying as much), so I stand by what I said.

Entry to my school was entirely based on how well you did in the entrance exams, but like you say that doesn't always (for some reason) stop seemingly total idiots from getting in - this is as much to do with attitude as it is with aptitude, of course. Even then, though, we were still split into classes based on ability for the subjects where it made sense, and I think this is clearly a benefit over some random grouping of students. We would then have even smaller lessons for those of us who were studying for STEP, for example. Small classes sizes is definitely the largest positive that you can add to that environment, I agree, along with giving people a choice of things to study wherever possible.
 
This is going to sound horribly elitist, but I would have loved to have had the opportunity of going to a meritocratic grammar school and left behind my useless high school and it's horrible mixed-ability classes. Yes, let's slow down and lower the quality of everyone's education for the (dubious) benefit of the less interested and less intelligent. Bollocks. Classes should be taught according to ability and people who don't want to be there should be kicked out

I don't agree. Streaming doesn't work any better at all, if anything it just increases the disparity between the 'high achiever's' and the failures. Both my own personal experience and a whole load of research backs this up. I guess it's OK if your in the tops sets, but it' can be pretty awful if your in the lowest sets. I was in the lowest set for every class , and anyone who thinks just dumping all the most troubled, challenged and disruptive kids all in one class will work, is sadly mistaken. In my experience it amounted to this: half of the class is stoned, one guy whips his knob out and tries to convince one of the girls to perform fellatio (and even achieves an extent of success on occasion), at least one boy is hyper aggressive and succeeds in chasing our teacher out of the class at some point, after which everybody either starts smoking cigarettes out the window or assume the lesson finished and leave.

I'm not exaggerating, in fact it was often much worse! We had a different teacher for every subject (accept our science teacher, everybody liked her) virtually every two weeks, because no one could handle teaching these classes, or just gave up trying to teach us. It was completely fruitless.

I think league tables and entry exams are also no good at all. It turns the pupils (and parents) into consumers, and who will always end up with more purchasing power? Those from more materially wealthy families, or with 'cultural capital' will end up in the better performing schools, while poorer students will often not. Our Education system isn't egalitarian at all.

The core problem with our school system is the idea that clumping everyone into groups of thirty or so students from varied backgrounds and marching through a standardised national syllabus with no attempt to adapt anything to the pupils is flawed. It works for a few people and for everyone else it's just a sloppy mess.

This is a very important point, and is a primary reason why our system is failing. It doesn't adapt it's teaching methods to suit the needs of pupils at all! It forces students to learn in a standardised way that, as you say, cannot work for the vast majority of students. It doesn't just come down to streaming, there are more inventive ways of getting through to pupils. One example could be a set up where pupils do more teaching amongst themselves (and this has actually proven effective).

And it's interesting to ask why this system is still consistently failing afro-Caribbean children (who are still by far the lowest achieving group), sure it is the case that a higher percentage of these kids are from working class families, but is that all it is? I think if schooling was more relatable for them, with more teachers from their background in the schools, things would different.

Placing so much importance on standardized tests is huge mistake. Children need to learn in different ways and at different paces, and making them take standardised tests all at the same time, will just unfairly end up failing students.
 
chaos said:
ayase said:
chaos said:
People talking about work and I'm here jobless....
Join the club... Still, maybe we'll see you around here a bit more often eh? :p
I'll try to post more frequently now, but can't promise anything. My being jobless was kinda self inflicted.
I'm working on some internet startup ideas of mine, as well as helping making a short movie. I'm quite busy at the moment, with so much going on, which is quite scary and exciting at the same time.
I guess I did kinda choose joblessness at this juncture as well. Well they did say I could go back, but given that the job had been one of several contributing factors in me having what would probably be described as a mental breakdown, I declined. That all sounds interesting anyway chaos, good luck with it all.

Maxon has always been the same Maxon, hasn't he? I mean he's had several names by now, but...

Koyomi Mizuhara said:
Entry to my school was entirely based on how well you did in the entrance exams, but like you say that doesn't always (for some reason) stop seemingly total idiots from getting in...
1905867.jpg
 
vashdaman said:
Placing so much importance on standardized tests is huge mistake.
I've spoken to almost no-one who disagrees with this, including a non-trivial number of people I know who work in education in different ways. But, unfortunately, I would consider this a symptom of the way developed society is set up in general in a lot of countries, rather than being "the problem" that then feeds through to the way people recruit for jobs and such.

But, at some stage, you also have to consider to what extent does any one individual deserve to have concentrated resources (both in terms of man-power, money, time, and a variety of other things) directed their way just because they are struggling? Compared with other species, Homo sapiens do not do so badly in this regard imo.

edit:

:lol:
 
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