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How long does it take to get citizenship then chaos? Because I'm sure people stay and work longer than you have without having master's degrees. I don't know if they become citizens or not... is it the particular Visa type perhaps, and these people are maybe just not allowed to do certain jobs?

You could always take the easy route and marry a British girl. ;)
 
i think people are confusing illegal aliens, asylum seekers, immigrants and citizens of the EU who can live anywhere within it. People do generally just put these all in the same category as foreigners. Ignorant but true.
 
There's parts i know about and parts i don't...

have you seen the pink ID badges the immigration people are sending out instead of the passport badges they used to have chaos?

Tbh i wasn't having a go at you. i'm just abit annoyed that there's some people who know the system and know how to abuse it. for example...one of my staff members had been working in this country for years...under a student visa, which also entitles them to work 20 hours WTD (working time directive) now he had them visa's for a number of years, and the other week he claimed asylum. now what pisses me off is....they're coming accross here and getting an education (thats the okay bit) but as soon as we say "right thats it...don'e your learning...time to go home" they THEN claim asylum.... i wouldn't mind but most of them claim its mugabi... who in my opinion should have been shot along time ago.

With regards to Claiming asylum...their meant to claim it in the next country they step foot in......yet most of them travel through different countries before getting to england. (my mum knows alot more about this...i know snippets)


As i said before though....if their here to work...fine fair enough.
if their here to claim (unjustifiable) asylum and then relax and get child support for their kids.....even if their kids aren't in the country they can still claim it and it DOES get paid. aswell as free accomedation for them and also free healthcare.


(we have a E111 card we have to fill out and pay for if we go abroad and need healthcare.....do people visiting england need such card? no.)

I just believe that the government is a screw up....we need somebody to sit down and say "right this needs sorting" and actually sort it for the better. rather than just pass sneeky laws and F*** up the country further.
 
ayase said:
How long does it take to get citizenship then chaos?
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If they don't change the law again, it takes about seven years. 5 years for a permanent residency, this process takes a few months, so let's say around 6 months. Then after you get the permanent residency, you need to live another year here. At none of these years, you're allowed to stay away for longer than a month or else they reset the time.
It's either that or 3 years, if I were married to a british citizen. I've even heard of people who marry for money...

ayase said:
Because I'm sure people stay and work longer than you have without having master's degrees. I don't know if they become citizens or not... is it the particular Visa type perhaps, and these people are maybe just not allowed to do certain jobs?
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You can try a sponsored VISA. Most rules applies, but there is no need for a Master degree, college is enough. If I'm correct, for a sponsored VISA the company must pay over 20K salary per year, so it's not like you're trying to hire cheaper employees.
Also, there is always the possibility they are illegal in the country, i.e. their VISA's expired and their companies were lazy to check.

ayase said:
You could always take the easy route and marry a British girl. ;)
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I'm trying, but I'm having no luck so far... =P


skikes said:
i think people are confusing illegal aliens, asylum seekers, immigrants and citizens of the EU who can live anywhere within it. People do generally just put these all in the same category as foreigners.
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I agree that illegal aliens should jsut be sent back.

Asylum seekers it's way more complicated, but it's not like living in luxury over here though.

Immigrants is me

Citizens of the EU have the same rights as the UK citizens, AFAIK, but then again, I can't believe they would leave their countries to live out of benefits here.
 
I wasnt going to bring this because i thought it might start an arguement but here goes...

The mayor of Ennis recently said when housing different races specifically black people that he would not group them, for fear of it turning areas into ghettos... anyone agree with this?
 
skikes said:
I wasnt going to bring this because i thought it might start an arguement but here goes...

The mayor of Ennis recently said when housing different races specifically black people that he would not group them, for fear of it turning areas into ghettos... anyone agree with this?
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Partly yes, but possibly for a different reason. I presume we're talking about government housing here?

I think we need to force multiculturalism. Racism happens because people don't understand or associate with people of other races and their different cultures. In some towns we have White areas, Asian areas, Black areas... if you mix them up and force them to live together they will come to understand each other better, and perhaps all start to drop some of their bigoted views. If you just group people of the same race together it serves to reinforce their own beliefs and identities, and doesn't promote open mindedness. And just to make clear, I direct this at all races.
 
ayase said:
skikes said:
I wasnt going to bring this because i thought it might start an arguement but here goes...

The mayor of Ennis recently said when housing different races specifically black people that he would not group them, for fear of it turning areas into ghettos... anyone agree with this?
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Partly yes, but possibly for a different reason. I presume we're talking about government housing here?

I think we need to force multiculturalism. Racism happens because people don't understand or associate with people of other races and their different cultures. In some towns we have White areas, Asian areas, Black areas... if you mix them up and force them to live together they will come to understand each other better, and perhaps all start to drop some of their bigoted views.
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Forcing people to live together probably breaches some sort of human right now-a-days, and personally i believe the people should be asked if they want to live with people of their own country...or mixed. as its their lives were talking about.

For instance, the government says to me "your living here. its mixed race, deal with it" i'd tell em exactly where to get off.

End of the day....this is too serious a discussion for my humble thread

BEGONE!
 
Tachi- said:
Forcing people to live together probably breaches some sort of human right now-a-days, and personally i believe the people should be asked if they want to live with people of their own country...or mixed. as its their lives were talking about.

For instance, the government says to me "your living here. its mixed race, deal with it" i'd tell em exactly where to get off.
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I'm not suggesting people wouldn't be able to choose where they lived when they had enough money to pay for their own accommodation. But council housing... you get what you're given anyway. And why would anyone have a problem with living in a mixed race block of flats / estate? :?
 
Tachi- said:
End of the day....this is too serious a discussion for my humble thread

BEGONE!
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WE ALL KNOW YOU MADE THIS TOPIC. Your name is right there on the first page between the oh so imaginative and the last poster.

and besides, its not that good, its not even stickied 8)
 
Tachi- said:
have you seen the pink ID badges the immigration people are sending out instead of the passport badges they used to have chaos?
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I know about then, in my case I've renewed my VISA before the ID cards became mandatory, so I don't have one yet. It's confusing because they say every foreigner must have one, but they don't say where I get one or by when it will be mandatory.

Tachi- said:
Tbh i wasn't having a go at you. i'm just abit annoyed that there's some people who know the system and know how to abuse it. for example...one of my staff members had been working in this country for years...under a student visa, which also entitles them to work 20 hours WTD (working time directive) now he had them visa's for a number of years, and the other week he claimed asylum. now what pisses me off is....they're coming accross here and getting an education (thats the okay bit) but as soon as we say "right thats it...don'e your learning...time to go home" they THEN claim asylum.... i wouldn't mind but most of them claim its mugabi... who in my opinion should have been shot along time ago.
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AFAIK, overseas students have to pay a lot of money for education. Also, once someone is educated is when they add more value to society, then you want to send then back? Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this. If they seek asylum for benefits only though, then I agree it's wrong.

Tachi- said:
As i said before though....if their here to work...fine fair enough.
if their here to claim (unjustifiable) asylum and then relax and get child support for their kids.....even if their kids aren't in the country they can still claim it and it DOES get paid. aswell as free accomedation for them and also free healthcare.
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o.0 that's messed up dude. But still, I don't know any asylum seeker. Hard to say what the figures really are, but still, I simply cannot believe they are nearly as bad as you draw then.

Tachi- said:
(we have a E111 card we have to fill out and pay for if we go abroad and need healthcare.....do people visiting england need such card? no.)
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I could swear that the EHIC were free for british and allowed you to receive medical care in any nation that has a reciprocity agreement with the UK. Brazil is one of then.
AFAIK, the EHIC is meant only for care for accidents or other medical care needed that was not the cause of the travel. If I've travelled here with the sole purpose of getting medical care, I'm not sure the british would let me... In other words, I can treat a broken leg, but can't treat cancer.

Tachi- said:
I just believe that the government is a screw up....we need somebody to sit down and say "right this needs sorting" and actually sort it for the better. rather than just pass sneeky laws and F*** up the country further.
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I don't believe the law in here is bad. Of course there's loads of social pressure because of the recession, but still the UK had many years of prosperity before the crisis, which lead to this situation.
Everybody blames the greedy bankers, but no one remembers that it was all caused by those people who toook loans they couldn't pay for.

Skikes - Mixing people together is the way to go, not only in a neightbourhood, but people should breed more mixedly as well...

One thing that surprised me here was how "black" black people over here was. Then I realized it was because black and white mix WAY less here, than they did / do in Brazil.
 
ayase said:
I think we need to force multiculturalism.
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Dude, I don't mean to be offensive here but- you do moan about how the Government force things upon us, then you say this?

No- I'm sorry we shouldn't be forced into anything.

Maybe I've read your post the wrong way though so- feel free to expand. I just don't think we should be forced into multiculturalism.

I totally agree with Tachi on this;

Tachi said:
personally i believe the people should be asked if they want to live with people of their own country...or mixed. as its their lives were talking about.

For instance, the government says to me "your living here. its mixed race, deal with it" i'd tell em exactly where to get off.
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Wow ya know i was expecting everyone to call him a racist which is why i didnt bring it up, but yeah i totally agree with everyone i think its one of britians biggest problems.
 
Spyro201 said:
ayase said:
I think we need to force multiculturalism.
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Dude, I don't mean to be offensive here but- you do moan about how the Government force things upon us, then you say this?

No- I'm sorry we shouldn't be forced into anything.

Maybe I've read your post the wrong way though so- feel free to expand. I just don't think we should be forced into multiculturalism.
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No offense taken, virtually ever. If people want to debate things in a civilised way I'm always up for it. ;)

Okay, so it seems a bit out-of-character. I believe in personal freedom, but I think with regards to things there is really no excuse for other than ignorance - racism, sexism, etc. - that is where government is needed to stamp it out. I don't believe the way to go is to outlaw things, but to educate people - If someone grows up in an all-white or all-asian neighborhood and is educated by people of their own race (or religion! Faith schools are a massive offender in promoting intolerance) they're not going to understand people of other backgrounds nearly as well as if they'd had exposure to other cultures.

I can see people might have a problem with this being done forcibly, but I don't see what possible problem anyone could have with mixing races or multiculturalism other than racism. What is British culture? Celtic, Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Norman - what people consider "British" culture is already multicultural! So where's the harm in adding Indian, Pakistani, Caribbean, and African cultures into this mix?
 
Spyro201 said:
I just don't think we should be forced into multiculturalism.

I totally agree with Tachi on this;

Tachi said:
personally i believe the people should be asked if they want to live with people of their own country...or mixed. as its their lives were talking about.

For instance, the government says to me "your living here. its mixed race, deal with it" i'd tell em exactly where to get off.
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Forced no, but allowing people to segregate will only make the whole country become like Belfast with its streets of Catholic and Protestants...

People should live where they want period. That goes for all those families who left their houses because they feared the racists. That also goes to the little kid and her grandad who were killed in the street by racists the other day.

I say there should not be allowed any sort of segregation at all. No special treatment to minorities as well, as it seems to only create resentment and more misunderstandings.

You should be able to choose your house, not your neighbours or the colour / creed of the kids who go to school with your kids.

Actually, I think they should teach religion studies at school and at least provide a little exposure to all of the main religion.

ps. Skikes, I've just mentioned Belfast because it was an example that was still fresh in my mind. No offense meant there.
 
Wish I had time to read all your essays lol. Burt I've been a working! Plus it's time for me to wrap up for another night.

Catch you all tomorrow if not beofre. *exits*
 
It seems people got the wrong end of the stick WRT my 'forced' comment. I was talking about council housing, where the government assigns you a house / flat anyway - where it would be easy to go through the plan of houses or flats going, "white, black, asian, white, black, asian..." I was not on about forcibly removing people from properties they privately own or rent. Just to clear that up.
 
Yes, the mayor of Ennis is absolutely, 100% right. Ghettoising black people (although I don't see as a problem in Ireland, tbh, because there is such a tiny amount of Africans; the real issue concerns Polish people, I think) is obviously a bad idea but the repercussions for allowing such a ghettoisation to occur would be detrimental to Irish society in a very big way.

I am in favour of multiculturalism, but I must admit that I am reluctant to say that I care not for Irish culture at all. I am proud that I have Irish blood, proud of my country's history, proud of the nature of Irish people, etc. and I would hate to see that eroded by attempts to appease militant multiculturalism. Irish culture in Ireland should not just be one of many cultures, it should be the umbrella under which all other cultures exist on this island. In other words, I think that any person from any country is more than welcome in Ireland, and I appreciate the extraordinary importance of a society with people of all colours and creeds, but there must, of course, be some adaptation to Irish customs and culture. I think many people in many other countries would feel the same way :]
 
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