Staying On Topic - "Your viewing journal" and Non-Anime Media Discussion

ayase

State Alchemist
Hello everybody. This section of the forum doesn't get used much, huh? Well, today I'd like to share some opinions about the growing amount of off-topic content in the "Your viewing journal" thread in the "Anime & Manga/General Anime Chit-Chat" sub-forum. I would like to make an honest and open statement about that here rather than going behind anybody's back, because doing so is not in my nature. I would also say that I don't wish for anyone to feel personally attacked by my words; multiple people who I consider to be regularly contributing assets to the forum are engaged in this and it is far from my intention to discourage any of them from posting or call them out. I think posting off-topic content in that particular thread has simply become normalised to a point where that's just what people do. I don't blame you. I don't wish to tut at you or say you're wrong for doing it. What is beginning to bother me is not you as individuals, but the frequency and amount of non-anime content being posted there.

Recently in the "Your viewing journal" thread, there have been posts made about live action films. In the "Off Topic/Media Discussion" sub-forum there is a rate the last film you watched thread. There is an asian cinema thread. There have been posts made about western cartoons. There is a western cartoon thread. There have been posts made about tokusatsu shows. There is a tokusatsu thread. There have been posts made about Doctor Who. There is a Doctor Who thread. Two things all of those topics have in common are that none of them are anime, and all of them have existing threads for posting about those topics.

I am not a mod. And I think in general, AUKN's mods and admins do good work (@Rui, you split a drifting off-topic discussion like nobody's business) and ultimately it's for them to decide how these forums are moderated. It's not my intention to call them out either. But I don't think it's unreasonable of me to suggest that perhaps posts on non-anime media topics which already have existing threads in a relevant sub-forum should be made in those threads, rather than in a thread in an anime sub-forum designed for posting about anime. In fact, I think it would probably be of benefit to the forum for posts about those subjects to be made in the threads specifically devoted to them. Because then people interested in those topics will see the notifications that those threads have new posts and are being used, which may make them more likely to read those threads and posts and get involved in discussion themselves.

That's all I really have to say, I think it was better I said it here in this way than starting to act like a bit of a back-seat mod in the thread in question. The nice thing about forums is that anyone can make new threads; at the end of the day I can simply make a "Discuss the Anime you are Currently Watching" thread which leaves no room for doubt about the topic to be discussed. But since the "Your viewing journal" thread is one of the most active and popular on the forum I wanted to give everyone, mods and users alike, an opportunity to weigh in before I did so.
 
I agree with you. While I think it's a good idea to throw it out for debate - please do chime in, everyone! - I have just made a perhaps-controversial adjustment and renamed the thread in question to include the word 'anime', to make it clearer that it sits in the Anime & Manga section of the site. I think folks who browse by What's New or one of the other views might not always realise that the thread was originally created as an anime journal.

While it is convenient to put all viewing content in one place from a posting perspective, from a browsing perspective it's a devil to find 'that one cartoon someone said was good a few months ago' in a thread with so much activity, so my personal opinion is that having that content in the dedicated threads would make it easier to converse. I am more than willing to hear conflicting opinions - and to rename/sticky any of the cited threads as needed to make them easier to use.

R
 
While it is convenient to put all viewing content in one place from a posting perspective, from a browsing perspective it's a devil to find 'that one cartoon someone said was good a few months ago' in a thread with so much activity, so my personal opinion is that having that content in the dedicated threads would make it easier to converse. I am more than willing to hear conflicting opinions - and to rename/sticky any of the cited threads as needed to make them easier to use.

R

I hadn't entirely considered that and it's a valid point. I get what you are saying too @ayase - I do quite like posting all my viewing content in one thread, but yeah it would be good to get that general cartoons thread more active... 🤔
 
@Otomo I like you and I enjoy your contributions to the forum, as I do everyone who was posting off-topic content in the viewing journal thread, actually (there were more than two). I think I said everything else I wanted to say, including my reasons for posting publicly, in the most tactful and considered manner I am capable of mustering. Perhaps I am deficient in that area, but I genuinely can't even imagine what gentler than that would look like without transforming myself into a pillow.

Personally, I am happy with @Rui's chosen solution of simply clarifying the purpose of the thread in the title and have nothing further to add.
 
That's unfortunate, but will be respected. No quotes, no tags, no notifications, but I reserve the right to say that I believe what actually occurred in the aforementioned instance is that I made what was intended to be a light-hearted general statement about Super Sonico by way of reference to the game show "Family Fortunes" rather than any kind of personal accusation, ymmv on my sense of humour. I believe there is an "ignore" function (I wouldn't know whether it works or not, I've never used it) if anyone wants to remove my posts entirely from their sight going forward.
 
Genuinely cannot tell whether this is serious or in jest (and either way, it's resolved by the Ignore feature) but I do want to say one thing: I personally appreciate that ayase brought this matter up for debate.

Reporting the messages would have felt worse since all I could have done was delete the off topic content from each message (I can't split individual posts!) which would just mean all of the non-anime content was removed each time, necessitating a personal explanation for each individual who made the mistake. It would feel bad for that to happen to people who had taken the time to post, and they might have personally meant for their posts to serve them as an aide-mémoire in future. I don't generally like removing content that people have posted unless it's incendiary or overtly offensive and I don't think a 'message from Rui in your inbox' is an interaction that anyone especially wants in their life.

And I do believe that this was mostly innocent human error. So I was grateful that ayase tried to explain it in such detail, with proposals for alternatives and citing five different examples to avoid singling anyone out. My own resolution would not have been so meticulous and I do think that even with me trying to keep a light tone, I would still have hurt some feelings by moderating posts made in good faith. Nobody likes having their actions criticised or rejected.

This way, it's not just the moderation team's opinion of the posting but everyone in the community gets to have a say about how the thread would work (for example, if people put forward an argument that the thread should have stayed as-is but been moved to another forum category, I would have considered that, then someone could always have made a specific anime-only thread separately).

We're all awkward people to varying degrees and social cues are tough at the best of times, especially through the medium of text. I prefer things out in the open where possible so that there's less opportunity for misunderstanding, and I do hope that we can all treat one another sympathetically, and continue to offer each other the benefit of the doubt.

R
 
I think the direction the viewing journal thread has taken is due to the forums being built on a mix of web 1.0 and web 2.0 design concepts, and reflects how people seem to engage with the forums as a whole. 20+ years ago, the only way to navigate the forums I used to use was via the front page and the sub-forum subject listings. Now we have convenient features like subscribing to individual threads for notifications, and a dedicated page that lists recently updated threads. There's also the like button, which gives unrepentent narcissists like me a little endorphin rush every time someone likes one of my posts. All those factors combined seem to have given people tunnel vision. They only check the popular threads, so those are the ones that get the most replies and likes, presumably making people feel that those are the only threads worth posting in, regardless of whether a post is a bit off-topic or not. The result is that 90% of engagement with the forums takes place in the same half a dozen threads.

I could be wrong, of course. Maybe all the posts are in the same handful of threads because those are the only things people want to discuss. I'm surprised how little discussion of anime goes on here though. Most posts are about upcoming anime physical releases, but not the shows themselves. Even in the viewing journal thread, it tends to be a tickertape feed of which episode people are up to, with little or no discussion of their opinions about the shows. I guess that's just symptomatic of where the fandom is at this point. With over 60 new shows streaming every season, not counting catalogue titles or physical releases, time spent posting means less time watching the avalanche of new content out there. Plus, there's little sense of shared experience among the fandom because everyone is watching different shows. That's probably why the simulwatches were so popular for a while; they were a good way to get everyone talking about one show. We should really start doing those again, now I think of it.

I'm certainly not saying I want any of the forum's convenient features disabled to force people to browse the full list of threads, but I do think all of these factors may be how we've ended up where the forums are now. The only practical suggestions I can think of would be if there's a way to have alert notifications show the name of the sub-forum along with the thread title, or if there's a way to make the sub-forum name more prominent in the What's New listing. I don't know if that would help though.
 
I could be wrong, of course. Maybe all the posts are in the same handful of threads because those are the only things people want to discuss. I'm surprised how little discussion of anime goes on here though. Most posts are about upcoming anime physical releases, but not the shows themselves. Even in the viewing journal thread, it tends to be a tickertape feed of which episode people are up to, with little or no discussion of their opinions about the shows. I guess that's just symptomatic of where the fandom is at this point. With over 60 new shows streaming every season, not counting catalogue titles or physical releases, time spent posting means less time watching the avalanche of new content out there. Plus, there's little sense of shared experience among the fandom because everyone is watching different shows. That's probably why the simulwatches were so popular for a while; they were a good way to get everyone talking about one show. We should really start doing those again, now I think of it.

I get what you mean about how much new content there is, though in my case it's as much because I'd perhaps rather spend that time on say, reading or drawing a picture. But yeah, valid point. I'm also one of those people who can write half-decently if it's poetry or a short story or script, but is mostly IMO terrible at opinion pieces and essays, so I don't tend to bother saying much beyond "this was good, I liked it" XP
 
This way, it's not just the moderation team's opinion of the posting but everyone in the community gets to have a say about how the thread would work (for example, if people put forward an argument that the thread should have stayed as-is but been moved to another forum category, I would have considered that, then someone could always have made a specific anime-only thread separately).

That is precisely the kind of discussion I was attempting to spur by making this thread. Thank you for recognising my intentions even if it didn't quite work out that way, Rui.

I'm surprised how little discussion of anime goes on here though. Most posts are about upcoming anime physical releases, but not the shows themselves. Even in the viewing journal thread, it tends to be a tickertape feed of which episode people are up to, with little or no discussion of their opinions about the shows. I guess that's just symptomatic of where the fandom is at this point. With over 60 new shows streaming every season, not counting catalogue titles or physical releases, time spent posting means less time watching the avalanche of new content out there. Plus, there's little sense of shared experience among the fandom because everyone is watching different shows.

Drifting off topic here a bit Dai, but as the OP I'll allow it. <this is humour I seem to remember having a similar discussion once before and I came to the conclusion that there was little I or anyone else could do about the decline of participative discussion, disheartening as it has been to see. Perhaps part of that is people not having the time or watching different things but more than that, I think the way people communicate online has simply changed. I think social media and its corporate, advertising driven idea of "engagement" being clicks, likes and sharing of unoriginal content to get more clicks and likes rather than resembling any kind of actual human interaction like a conversation (which should be the bread and butter of discussion forums) has a lot to answer for in that regard.

I'm also one of those people who can write half-decently if it's poetry or a short story or script, but is mostly IMO terrible at opinion pieces and essays, so I don't tend to bother saying much beyond "this was good, I liked it" XP

Having and expressing opinions on things comes pretty easy to me (as you and everyone else are no doubt aware) but the only real reason I share them publicly somewhere like AUKN is in the (often vain) hope that someone will engage with the things I've written. Whether that's to share their own opinions on the same subject or to disagree with mine, either way I welcome the discussion, but it seems like the few subjects capable of spurring actual discussion now are controversial subjects unrelated to anime like the politics thread or this sh*tshow of my own making. The only place I find I get guaranteed replies these days is solidly and stubbornly web 1.0 imageboards where the only way to interact with a post is to reply to it. Even if 4/5 replies are invitations to kill myself and only one of them is an actual response I can engage with, I'm still happier with that than 5 likes and no replies because there's something there for me to work with. A disappearing mindset, perhaps. As I said above in my reply to Dai, I'm aware there's not much I can do about that. I can't control how other people respond to my posts, all I can do is keep on stubbornly making those posts anyway.

there's little sense of shared experience among the fandom because everyone is watching different shows. That's probably why the simulwatches were so popular for a while; they were a good way to get everyone talking about one show. We should really start doing those again, now I think of it.

The 2019-2021 golden age of the simulwatch was genuinely one of the most enjoyable times I have had posting on AUKN in the last decade. I was actually just rereading this one after the subject of Riding Bean came up and it reminded me how much fun they were (and would like to take this opportunity to apologise for never getting around to AD Police). That was genuine discussion and shared experience and I'd absolutely be up for being involved in their resurrection. I believe @Rui even suggested organising all the simulwatch threads into their own sub-forum at one point which, if people were to make a concerted effort to get them going again, may not be a bad idea at all since that's a lot of quality content that's very much buried now.
 
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As myself being guilty of going off topic (spectacularly at some points😅) I completely see the logic behind this thread. I'm pretty sure no offence was meant by anyone here, but unfortunately it is certainly very easy for things to come across or be perceived in ways not intended in the written format, so hopefully there won't be any hard feelings in the long run.

I hugely miss the simulwatches, and it would be amazing to get them restarted. Just to prove your point@ayase, I'm going to go off topic again 😅 - I assume everyone has a lot more to do nowadays in much lesser time, so not sure if anyone has any ideas on how to do those again in future to increase engagement. It's certainly great to have info on physical releases, but better still to chat to people about one's favourite animes. I just assumed people were using other avenues nowadays like discord to do so, but what do I know given that this dinosaur's only social media interaction happens here on this forum, so I haven't a clue. I also think simulwatches took off even more thanks to the pandemic and people having less time wasted on commuting and more time for anime and chatting on forums maybe. I've certainly gotten much busier in the last two years, so even though I manage to fit in some great shows/movies by being selective, I do struggle to come on and comment on them and bore everyone senseless. Still I live in hope of simulwatching with the guys here again one day (hopefully before retirement...)! @Rui please feel free to chuck this post to a more appropriate simulwatch thread heheh.
 
I don't really post in the viewing journal thread since I often don't have much to contribute and y'all definitely don't want me posting the fifty thousand episodes I watch a week with no commentary I'm sure. 😝

I've never particularly minded the current thread going off-topic, but as someone who does navigate the forum primarily through the 'new posts' page rather than browsing the boards unless I'm looking for something specific, I think it would be nice to see not-anime media posted in the other threads to boost the visibility of those in general. AUKN is the only forum I use these days and we have a really dedicated community, which sparks really interesting discussions! So I just think it would be nice to see that nurtured by branching out into the other threads. :)
 
From my personal perspective as a frequent poster in the viewing journal thread I don’t have any issues excising the occasional non-anime content from my journal entries moving forward - in general I imagine it would benefit the dedicated threads for film, DW, cartoons etc to add entries of this kind there instead, as to promote discussion.
 
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I rarely watch stuff outside of anime due to not really enjoying TV and Live Action movies so the occasional times I've watched something like a Disney movie I haven't even thought about putting it into the Last Film or Cartoon thread. I also watch Disney stuff Japanese dubbed with English subs so it doesn't even cross my mind its not Anime lol

Though I do agree people posting in these threads rather than posting off-topic in the Anime thread would be better as it would push more traffic to the appropriate threads rather than being buried away in the anime thread

Does lead to the question of Chinese / Korean made animation... Still Anime right?

Bit off topic - I don't think you were pointing at fingers when making this thread. Pretty clear you saw a few examples while scrolling and used them as an example to point to the correct forum.

Quick edit - Regarding moderation and if this post should have been made. I prefer posts like this to be made so discussion can happen, opinions heard and everyone knows whats going on

Moderators doing stuff in the background like moving posts is great but only a short term fix and uses up their time. (And coming onto a forum to see a Moderation notification pop up for one of your posts is never a nice thing to see, even if its simply your post has been moved)
 
Anyone averse to me changing the (rather dead) Weekly Streaming section into a Simulwatching/Streaming section and popping some of the old simulwatch threads into it for easier perusal?

R
Sounds great to me, it would be ideal to have all the previous simulwatches organised in one place, as they're probably perfect to come back to when rewatching the greats. Hopefully may also spur new simulwatches - Xmas hols coming up so maybe if people have time and interest, we could pick something and keep it casual?
 
Anyone averse to me changing the (rather dead) Weekly Streaming section into a Simulwatching/Streaming section and popping some of the old simulwatch threads into it for easier perusal?

R
Good idea. I honestly hadn't even noticed that sub-forum existed! Looks like the last post was over 3 years ago.
 
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