Simulwatch - serial experiments lain

T

teonzo

Straw Hat Pirate
I suppose it's better to open a new thread.



Episode 1 - Weird

The episode name (which is an anagram of "wired" too) and the first scene (a girl committing suicide - spoiler for ep1) tell us immediately that we are not going to watch an easy show. But we got to know really few things, this episode is structured to set-up the foundation of the story and let the viewer wonder on what he is going to watch. This show is based on a lot of visual metaphors and quotes to novels/art/science/whatever, we already get some in this first episode: all the electric wires (this will be more clear in the next episodes), the scene where Lain sees vapors coming out of her hands - spoiler for ep1 (implying her real nature - spoiler for all the series), the other scene where Lain has a vision of her watching a railtrack dissolving in the fog - spoiler for ep1 (a metaphor for her beginning to discover who she really is - spoiler for all the series), the person transforming into a string (recalling Escher).
This episode puts the viewer in total confusion, without understanding what's going on. The sure thing is that this will be a thought provoking series, where it's mandatory to pay a lot of attention to all details.



Teo
 
Last edited by a moderator:
To start with, I'm pretty sure lain is on something and what ever it is she should stop taking it.
Second I have no Idea what's going on but if I had to guess,a class mate kills her self and is now on the wired world communicating with lain on the wire.

The mother looks like she couldn't care less and the dad looks like a computer nerd buff sort of guy.

First ep cleared
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is my first time watching this and I’m really impressed with the first episode. I reviewed Sion Sono’s film Suicide Circle which has similar themes last year and really went overboard with trying to interpret everything because it’s a visually dense and messy film (in more ways than one) but Serial Experiments Lain (SEL) deals with the same things in a really clinical and concise manner that gets underneath my skin. Of course it has 13 episodes so it has more time to unfurl its story.

The opening suicide is disturbing, not just for the physical aspect but the mental anguish the person is going through. The on-screen text feels like the writings of someone who has given up on reality.

Technology is hugely important. Everybody is getting connected (ironically) to the wired where ‘God’ exists… Of course this is going to be a great big lie. Wires frame so many scenes. Lain’s vision fogs over with static. What’s with all the red specks floating at the edges of shots?

Like Suicide Circle, there are so many people disconnected from each other – Lain’s family is the perfect example. Nobody really communicates. Her mother is spaced out despite Lain telling her something disturbing, her sister is anxious to leave the dinner table, her father is obsessed with technology. When Lain speaks to him at one point, no sound comes out. Nobody looks at each other. Lain is even disconnected from herself – her vision blurs and seems to be reprogrammed, her journey through streets (which empty out of people) is done by jump-cuts so you never get the sense that she exists in reality or, at least, in normal space time.

I can’t wait to watch episode 2.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Wired kind of reminds me of the Matrix. What instantly struck me about the show was the lack of background music, a choice which I approve of as I think it heightened the tension. I also liked the relatively sparse dialogue. There's certainly a lot to find out.
 
Genkina Hito said:
I can’t wait to watch episode 2.2/quote]
Click to expand...

If this was your first watching and the first episode hit you this way, then I can't wait to read your comments for all the other episodes! There will be a lot to discuss.



Teo
 
teonzo said:
animefreak17 said:
iv watched episode 2
Click to expand...

AF, we agreed to watch an episode every 2 days, not an episode every day...



Teo
Click to expand...

well thats good that way il re re watch the same 2 episodes and when you guys reach the next episode il re watch the previous, i really need to re re re watch the episodes in this series, because it requires a lot of thinking.
 
This is the second (or possibly third) time I've attempted to watch Lain, so it'd be nice if I could actually finish it this time.

Some say that the series has dated, most likely to due to the technology involved (Lain's initial attitude to email seems very unlikely by today's standards), but the fetish for online communication over its real life equivalent seems to have become more relevant than ever, in these social-media saturated times. For all that Lain's father is the one who's face lights up at the prospect of talking to his online buddies, I thought it was interesting that it's him, rather than Lain's mother, who at least acknowledges her talking to him. You'd think the more typical image would be the father as the remote salaryman, hiding behind his newspaper.

The character design for Chisa also really reminds me of a character from another show, but for the life of me, I can't think who...
 
It's long enough since I saw this show that I don't think I was fully emotionally prepared to go back in. The first episode goes by in almost a complete mental haze, it's extremely difficult to piece together what you are really seeing.

I'm not sure if the creators already want the viewers to be speculating about the nature of the "reality" that Lain lives in (The Matrix wasn't to come out for another few months, after all, but this is hardly the first work to suggest some kind of networked alternate reality for people to "live" in), but it's certainly the case that you can't sure exactly how the show is being presented to you.

Some scenes are "obviously" facets of Lain's imagination, others seem as if we are viewing them through some in-world lens such as a security camera or on a computer monitor. It's all more than enough to keep you off balance as you try to process various snippets of information.

Professor Irony said:
Some say that the series has dated, most likely to due to the technology involved (Lain's initial attitude to email seems very unlikely by today's standards)
Click to expand...
I didn't think this was an issue. Much in the same way that I think it's easy to accept, say, the fashion choices in Gankutsuou's costume design, I think that, again like The Matrix, the style of the computers and such is not glaring enough to be distracting.

As someone who personally by "today's standards" doesn't use the most common form of electronic social interaction (Facebook), I don't have a hard time believing that aspect of Lain's character. It's also easy to assume that her slightly anti-technology leanings it might be important as the show goes on (it's honestly so long since I saw it that I can't remember if this comes up specifically ^^; )
 
Professor Irony said:
Some say that the series has dated, most likely to due to the technology involved (Lain's initial attitude to email seems very unlikely by today's standards), but the fetish for online communication over its real life equivalent seems to have become more relevant than ever, in these social-media saturated times.
Click to expand...

I don't know when you guys first set foot on the internet, but it's useful to remember that back in 1998 (when this show was released) things were really different. Few people had access to internet. Few companies had an official domain. Search engines were quite crap back then. There were much less infos and it was much more difficult to find them.
As far as e-mails went, of course they were the most used feature to communicate with other people on internet, but you received much less e-mails than today (even considering that people moved on social networks) and you did not have free access each time of the day (unless you were one of the few who could allow a home connection). Another thing to remember, closely related to this first episode, is that it was much harder to send a fake e-mail. Nowadays even a newbie can send a fake e-mail with few (if any) effort. Back then it took programming skills and it was quite risky. Abuse services worked really well, so if you did something bad and were not so skilled to hide your traces, then you were caught pretty fast and that lead to troubles. If your account was a university one, then it was deleted and you were not going to get a new one (causing quite some difficulties for your studies). If you were using your work account, then you risked your workplace. If you were using your home account, you risked to get your contract nulled and loose all the money you paid in advance. Fake/spam e-mails were really rare back then, so considering the possibility was not your first thought. In this first episode the girls immediately think that the e-mails they received were a fake. With 2013 eyes it seems totally normal for some girls in their early teens to have such a thought. Back in 1998 definetely not.
Same goes for Lain attitude versus checking e-mails. Nowadays checking your e-mail is like checking what time it is, for most people it's one of the first things to do when they wake up. Back then you could check your e-mail only on specific occasions, so it was not one of your priorities in everyday life, much less a frequent gesture during the day.
All this just to point out that besides the technology, we must keep in mind also the difference in everyday behaviour. This reflects on how this show could be perceived back then. Besides the different technology, the different society, it was also depicting a totally different way of life at the eyes of the "average Joe" who had no real experience on what the internet was (because much less people had access to it) and only heard of about its existence. This augmented the sense of wonder.
It's hard to realize how internet changed the world if you are under 30.



Professor Irony said:
For all that Lain's father is the one who's face lights up at the prospect of talking to his online buddies, I thought it was interesting that it's him, rather than Lain's mother, who at least acknowledges her talking to him. You'd think the more typical image would be the father as the remote salaryman, hiding behind his newspaper.
Click to expand...

Good observation, this is really important for what will come next.



Professor Irony said:
The character design for Chisa also really reminds me of a character from another show, but for the life of me, I can't think who...
Click to expand...

I had the same feeling, my thought went to Texhnolyze but could not point out which one.

Talking about character design... which was the first anime character to have a tress with a rubber band "Lain style"? I recall many after Lain, but not before.



Teo
 
ilmaestro said:
It's long enough since I saw this show that I don't think I was fully emotionally prepared to go back in. The first episode goes by in almost a complete mental haze, it's extremely difficult to piece together what you are really seeing.
Click to expand...

I would say it's simply impossible to piece it together as you first watch each episode. This is one of the shows where pieces come together after the last episode ends. If you want to catch all details then a couple rewatches are highly suggested (if not mandatory).



ilmaestro said:
I'm not sure if the creators already want the viewers to be speculating about the nature of the "reality" that Lain lives in (The Matrix wasn't to come out for another few months, after all, but this is hardly the first work to suggest some kind of networked alternate reality for people to "live" in), but it's certainly the case that you can't sure exactly how the show is being presented to you.
Click to expand...

I would say the show was intended to divide the audience in 2: geeks and non geeks. Geeks usually had a passion for cyberpunk novels, most of the themes dealt in this anime were already dealt in various cyberpunk novels in the 80's. People who read at least a couple of cyberpunk novels had all the basics to grasp the essence of this anime from the beginning and being captivated immediately. Non geeks tended to be alienated, this could lead to fascination (for the weird and unknown) or total hate. It's pretty clear the authors intended to divide the audience and go for extreme reactions.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that the Borg (from Star Trek TNG) hit pop culture before The Matrix, so the casual observer who had a bit of sci-fi passion already ecountered a fictional society with a networked consciusness.



ilmaestro said:
Some scenes are "obviously" facets of Lain's imagination, others seem as if we are viewing them through some in-world lens such as a security camera or on a computer monitor. It's all more than enough to keep you off balance as you try to process various snippets of information.
Click to expand...

Good observation nr 1.



ilmaestro said:
It's also easy to assume that her slightly anti-technology leanings it might be important as the show goes on
Click to expand...

Good observation nr 2.



Teo
 
teonzo said:
Talking about character design... which was the first anime character to have a tress with a rubber band "Lain style"? I recall many after Lain, but not before.
Click to expand...

That's a good question. I'm sure I've seen that somewhere else around that time, but I can't think where - I'd have sworn Iria had one (circa 1994), but google image search tells me otherwise...
 
Episode 2 - Girls

This episode adds more informations but we are still far from getting a grasp of the overall story (all spoilers are relative to episode 2, nothing afterwards).
Lain is depicted as being disconnected from the surrounding people. Her sister thinks she can only socialize with an imaginary friend. Her mother just turns around when she sees her. Her father just helps her with setting the new computer then goes away (he was just interested in the computer). The delivery guy talks about the new computer, but she just does not know anything about it (can't communicate). In her classroom she is totally detached from the lesson and her classmates are depicted as shadows.
The only connection that Lain has with a "normal" life is with Arisu: she invites her to the club; while escaping she realizes Lain was left behind, so she turns back to go to save her.
We get to see some more pieces of the puzzle. There is a guy in a black suit and with a scary face. We get to know about the existence of a piece of nanotechnology that can control human perceptions and behaviour. Finally we see another person emotionally unstable that first kills some people and then commits suicide.
The episode ends with Lain saying that all people are connected, while she is the more disconnected in this fiction. Quite the paradox.
Another cold and disturbing episode that is setting the whole story.



Teo
 
Last edited by a moderator:
teonzo said:
I would say the show was intended to divide the audience in 2: geeks and non geeks. Geeks usually had a passion for cyberpunk novels, most of the themes dealt in this anime were already dealt in various cyberpunk novels in the 80's. People who read at least a couple of cyberpunk novels had all the basics to grasp the essence of this anime from the beginning and being captivated immediately. Non geeks tended to be alienated, this could lead to fascination (for the weird and unknown) or total hate. It's pretty clear the authors intended to divide the audience and go for extreme reactions.
Click to expand...
I can agree with that actually, speculation based on accumulated knowledge from other genre works should be expected from that half of the audience.

I had also completely forgotten about the Borg, but I was never much of a Star Trek fan past the original series.
 
Episode 2 felt like an ostensibly more straight-forward mixture of a variety of cautionary tales - drugs, peer-pressure, general rebellious teenage attitudes, but had the key moments of Lain's change of character when confronted in the club, and the weird guy waiting outside her house.

In the first instance, I almost want to go as far as to start believing that Lain might be being portrayed as legitimately having a personality disorder - she has already exhibited signs of being slightly autistic, but now it definitely seems to configure more accurately to multiple personality disorder or a variation thereof. This could explain her mother's cool attitude towards her, amongst other things.

The man outside her house goes back towards the themes of observation mainly explored in the visual presentation so far. If it feels at times like we have been watching Lain from within the show rather than without, perhaps we have been looking from his perspective, although we have little evidence at this stage as to the extent of his surveillance.

The matter of Lain's "double" that the girls may or may not have seen in the club previously has me stumped, though.
 
Episode 2 Girls – The world of Lain has become a lot more complicated. We are getting more background about the world around Lain, how Cyberia, a club young people go to, seems to be the focal point of some movement which she may or may not be a part of - we hear about a girl who looks like Lain but acts differently. I had expected this to be Lain venturing into the darker side of technology that is slowly claiming lives and altering reality but I think she’s already at the centre of this technology and maybe she has a split-personality – online/offline - and she doesn't know it... yet...

Her father is the only one offering encouragement to her (apart from Arisu) and his encouragement which is enthusiastic bordering on driven and is focussed on her use of technology she doesn’t understand but he’s all too obsessed by… is she just a pet project of his? It would explain why Lain’s mother and sister Mika act so coldly around her. I’m going to take two wild stabs now… is Lain an android or is she already in the wired? Are the guys watching her moderators?

Whatever the case the rise of nanotechnology in this episode may explain why Lain’s vision blurs and goes out of synch with reality. She’s got something altering her perception which reveals that the world of the wired is creeping everywhere or she's plugged in already… Some side effects or innate resistance to this technology may also tie in with her lack of what people might call normal emotions and her inhibitions around technology. She’s totally spaced out and trying to catch up – learning to co-exist.

Technically there’s great use of sound and image particularly in the club scene where things slow down and the way colour and sound will be leeched from a scene to highlight speech or sound-effects. Not hearing a gunshot at the end was a nice touch – it reflect the horror and the fact that Lain is spaced out! Indeed, sometimes the only things with sharp definitions that look real are the wires and Lain herself and the focus on a character’s eyes is very well one – the desperation and fear generated by pressure from others/the unknown that is reflected in Lain’s gaze. It's very disciplined but with an involving and complex story that I am trying to fathom out like a Kiyoshi Kurosawa film and I'm coming to respect it a lot.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Quoting from Genkina Hito's post (quote tags are messing up the spoiler tags, this could really do with being fixed):

Episode 2 Girls she’s already at the centre of this technology and maybe she has a split-personality – online/offline - and she doesn't know it... yet

And me replying:

I like basically everything in your post. This could further explain the "other" Lain that the girls think they saw in the club, presuming that aspects of Lain's environment (as well as Lain herself) exist in both the real world and the Wired. Does this then mean that the other girls also can't tell the difference between the two worlds? Or is the Wired actually leaking into the real world, and bringing the other Lain with it? It would also explain some of the stranger visual touches, such as the changing colors and patterns in the shadows. To further the parallels with concepts explored in The Matrix, could Arisu be Lain's "Trinity", with the weird guy outside her house being an Agent Smith type program inside the Wired. The thing missing from this is that we have no explanation for why Lain would be receiving the sort of surveillance that the "Neo" character would require.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You are all writing a lot of interesting speculations. I'd like to partecipate to these speculations, but my problem is that I've seen this series multiple times. I'm not able to try to forget how the story develops, so I would end up writing a boatload of involuntary spoilers.

Professor Irony, if you can add some technical comments on the visuals and sounds (if I understood it right you have experience as director) then they would be most appreciated.



Teo
 
teonzo said:
Professor Irony, if you can add some technical comments on the visuals and sounds (if I understood it right you have experience as director) then they would be most appreciated.
Click to expand...

You flatter me sir, that was a long time ago... I'll try and pay a bit more attention to the cinematography in the next episode, but the main thing that's caught my eye so far, is how many of the shots seem to be tilted to one side. It's a subtle thing, but the 'Dutch Angle' is a classic technique (particularly in horror film) for unconsciously creating a sense of uneasiness.

More generally, I thought the club scenes in ep2 were particularly interesting. There's a lot of debate in some corners as to what exactly does and does not constitute cyberpunk (as distinct from other forms of sci-fi), but I thought the scenes of techno-drug abuse and its apparent effects were very explicitly a cyberpunk motif, much more so than anything in the first episode.

I don't know if it's significant or not, but it strike anyone else that it seems surprisingly easy to get into Cyberia? We never actually see them enter, but Lain and her friends don't seem to have any trouble with bouncers, despite clearly being underage. They're not seen in the club, but there's also that group of kids that brush past Lain in the hallway outside...

The idea that Lain may have some sort of personality disorder is interesting too. What crossed my mind though was whether it was actually someone else's consciousness inhabiting Lain's shell, so to speak. Even if she has an alternate personality that only comes out online, she seemed so uninterested in the wired prior to the events of ep1, that I'd be surprised to see it manifest so quickly.
 
Back
Top