ROW, ROW, FIGHT THE POWAH!!! Gurren Lagann complete simulwatch

[Neil.T]

Re:buttal.

I don't think he's so cold as to execute Simon simply for the sake of his own power.

Oh, definitely not; I completely agree. As a little aside here, by the way, the actual sentence itself I view really as more of a plot device that's (appropriately enough) Gurren Lagann levels of OTT just because this show is never knowingly undersold. I don't personally see it as a particularly logical thing for Rossiu to do.

But anyway, going back to your point, what I would accuse Rossiu of is egotism. So convinced he was of the superiority of his own methods that he would narrow down other available options by putting Simon to death and scrapping Gurren Lagann. (I really can't see Lagann allowing itself to be scrapped, though. Can you imagine the scene? )

I also can't help but think that the order to scrap all of Team Dai-Gurren's old Gunmen would've come from Rossiu as well.

And please do play away at being devil's advocate, ayase. I like to do a bit of that myself as well.

The only thing that really doesn't add up for the This is Earth theory are the weird animals

It's difficult by this point to know how seriously I'm to take that. Taking it at face value, though: given that there's nothing in the story that seeks to communicate your idea to the audience, it would come down to whether that concept was included in the settei* of the show. It all boils down to creator's intent at the end of the day, after all.

I've certainly never read anything about the idea in any staff interviews or articles about the series.


*Though I don't usually like to bandy around Japanese terminology like this one, because it risks sounding rather elitist, I can't think of a suitable English equivalent. Settei is a collective term that describes part of the early production work on an anime that defines characters and setting, including things like back story. It forms a crucial part of an anime's production.

 

[ayase]

I can't think of a suitable English equivalent. Settei is a collective term that describes part of the early production work on an anime that defines characters and setting, including things like back story. It forms a crucial part of an anime's production.

In western animation (probably TV as well) that would be called a show bible.

 

[Ian Wolf]

I think Lordgenome said something to the effect of he was bored for a thousand years watching over the humans. Could have been thousands, but can't check it at the moment.

@D1tchd1gger Yes, but there is no mention of when Lordgenome was born. He could be born 1,000 years since the events of the anime, but there is no mention of exactly when he was born. He might have been born millions of years by now, in which case the continents may have drifted.

 

[Neil.T]

Episode 20

"I'm doing what must be done, nothing more."

"What do you know about it? I'm just doing what I need to do!"

I liked this aspect of today's episode. Two conflicting characters in two very different situations, but almost identical dialogue. The second piece, though, Simon's, was perhaps spoken with more conviction, despite his position at the time seemingly being much worse than that of Rossiu, being as he was held in confinement and robbed of influence.

Something else I liked was a bit of world-building involving the machines that humans have built in the seven years since their liberation. The cars don't have wheels: they run (literally!) on legs!

One way to read this, I guess, is that rotational motion is associated exclusively with Spiral Power and is such a high-level concept that humans haven't yet grasped it. The only mechanical parts ever shown rotating are things like Gurren's multitudinous drill manifestations or the spiral gauges on cockpit displays. Everything that rotates in this series is related to the godlike powers of the spiral. Even Simon's good old hand-operated drill from back in Giha Village, perhaps!

Interestingly, the ring-shaped upper part of the Muganns also rotates, despite their being an Anti-Spiral weapon. Fighting fire with fire, perhaps?

 

[D1tchd1gger]

@D1tchd1gger Yes, but there is no mention of when Lordgenome was born. He could be born 1,000 years since the events of the anime, but there is no mention of exactly when he was born. He might have been born millions of years by now, in which case the continents may have drifted.

I see. I guess I just assumed that the Spiral and Anti-Spiral forces showed up in present era Earth. The guns that Littner have seem to be modern guns. A little research shows Yoko's sniper rifle is based off the Barrett M82:

Barrett M82

The Barrett M82, informally known as the Light Fifty or the Barrett .50 cal, is a high-powered special applications scoped rifle developed by the American Barrett Firearms Company. It is chambered in the .50 BMG cartridge. This was the first gun to put the .50 BMG cartridge in a shoulder-fired...

guns.fandom.com

seriously

Deadly Nah, how many more times do I have to say I'm having a bit of fun!

It all boils down to creator's intent at the end of the day, after all.

See I think we have different ways of consuming our media. Just because the creator doesn't mention something there is no harm whatsoever in a little bit of fan theory. I mean where would the manga scene be if it weren't for mangakas learning there trade by making doujinshis!? Not just those ones, get your mind out of the gutter (or maybe that was just me )

And indeed discussion of history and even archaeology of fictional worlds is a perfectly legitimate part of geekdom. I remember when I was at Uni and I went to an Archaeological conference and one paper was on the archaeology of Discworld (Terry Pratchett's fictional world). A Google later:

Digging Holes in Popular Culture: Archaeology and Scien…

What would Howard Carter have thought of Lara Croft? an…

www.goodreads.com

Miles Russell was one of my lectures at Uni actually! I don't think it was him that gave the speech.

Anyway the question is, given the evidence from the script and the visual clues, did the story, so far, take place on Earth? There's now been numerous mentions of the Earth (could be the subbers own interpretation I'll give you that), the use of ningen (human, I await your Japanese knowledge to debunk this!) when talking about the people, the aforementioned Littner guns, the onsen, (the volcanos, pretty shaky ground with this one... badum tish ), the map, and even the fact that there is only one moon that looks like ours (it's an Imaishi show after all, why have one moon when you can have 5 of all different colours ). Go on, you know you want to

 

[HWR]

Episode 20
What a way to make an entrance! I’ve been finding it difficult not to simply watch episode after episode as the anticipation builds.

 

[Lordhippos]

Episode 20

Anyone else kind of want a GL mug?

So the plan was to take some people on the arc, and the rest to use the underground shelters. Unfortunately as the calculations show, people who aren't on the arc will just die regardless, and even those who try and escape on the arc will wind up dead eventually.

I don't hate Rossiu but neither do I really like him, he does what is necessary in his eyes, but his methods are a little extreme. Even so, I don't envy his position nor the burden of making the decisions he has to make with so few options and so little time.

I kind of forgot that the bird would try and assassinate Simon in prison. 3rd time is usually the charm, but not today,

Kittan tries to discover what is going on, he too realises that Rossiu has tough choices to make, and comes to an understanding that it's not a good option, but there is no better one. We get the return of the gunmen, I liked the twist on how they were originally used to fight the spiral enemy. I knew they made a come back, but I couldn't remember why they were effective.

Yoko makes a comeback, once again being jealous of Nia's hair, she decides to cut it back with her rifle.

 

[João Gomes]

Episode 19

The hum ahem-narrator sums it up neatly: "even as he's betrayed by fate". Also what the hell was Viral doing complaining with that mob? His voice is too distinctive!

Again, some shots reminiscent of Eva with handcuffed Simon and the angular light in the cell. And maybe Rossiu is detestable after all lol.

Him staring down Simon for the entirety of the episode made my blood boil. He did make a compelling case before the public, however.

At the end of the day, the objective here was clearly to make us hate him. Magically evading Kittan's punches was the rotten strawberry on top of the crapcake urgh.

I like that just as Simon is about to fall back on WWAD (what would aniki do) during the trial, something happens that makes him skip that and act on his own.

Promising conclusion to the episode, though.

Episode 20

The comedy of Simon being attacked by a giant cock in a prison bathroom is not lost on me. Evaded that s.hit real good.

Makkan's entrance was great, I'm a sucker for last second help! And Kittan is doing God's work by getting the core drill back. The team is getting back together.

I'm happy the series went in the direction of showing us how they deal with the new status quo and how it changed their relations but I'm happier still we're getting back to the older dynamic and it'll be all the more sweet for it.

Simon genuinely happy about Rossiu getting people to safety was great to see and Yoko's mischievous look on the last frame of the episode reminded me of Spike from Bebop.

Allow me to politely say:

F.UCK THE POLICE

because I'm watching 21 right now.

Edit : Watched 21 and I'm posting right now, please don't ban me.

I just want to say that Simon asking Viral if he wants to pilot the Gurren Lagann is one of my favorite anime moments ever. It's this perfect conclusion to all the stuff that has happened between Kamina, Viral and Simon and the culmination of Viral's evolution as a character but at same time understated, making it a beautiful moment.

It hits me really hard and really good. Viral belongs in the Gurren Lagann and from here on out we should all fasten our hype seatbelts because my good lord.

My
Good
Lord

 

[Dai]

Episode 20
I'm assuming math isn't really Leeron's strong suit if his simulation came out at the planet only taking a year to recover from being stripped down to its mantle. A million years, maybe.

Team Rossiu finally start to look human instead of cold-blooded killbots this episode, even as their number-crunching gets ever more desperate, but it's all for naught because their plans don't involve shoving a drill into something, and are therefore doomed to fail.

 

[Neil.T]

Episode 21

"It can't be... How could a machine be influenced by human emotions? ... If that's true, is this my limit?"

Yes, it is, Rossiu. And this is the biggest difference between yourself and Simon: you tried to make the best use of what you already had to work with and tried to save as many people as you could; Simon dared to dream of something bigger. And that began with inviting Viral of all people to become his co-pilot in Gurren Lagann. Who else could've envisioned something like that? As @João Gomes already said, it's a classic moment in anime.

The events that form the bulk of the episode are rather an interruption in the flow of the story, and this is something else that movie #2 improves upon by removing the whole flashback element and just alluding to Yōko's career change. It also gives, for me, a more compelling reason for her choice.

I'll pick up on a little bit of language trivia again for this segment, though, about the name of the boy Nakim, or Nakimu as it's pronounced in Japanese. His name is most likely taken from the Japanese insult nakimushi, which means "crybaby". Its literal translation is actually "crybug".

I'll be back for some response to earlier posts later, no doubt.

 

[Neil.T]

Simon being attacked by a giant cock in a prison bathroom

You have no idea how much this made me...

The hum ahem-narrator

Yep, you know, João. We know.

Wait and see.

I think we have different ways of consuming our media.
...
Just because the creator doesn't mention something there is no harm whatsoever in a little bit of fan theory. I mean where would the manga scene be if it weren't for mangakas learning there trade by making doujinshis

I'm sure our ways of looking at the fiction we watch are very different, yes. I feel like, for my own part, that I watch very much with an eye on it being a piece of fiction, created by a person with their own particular vision of what they want to put on show, and I really have no interest in trying to rationalise everything within it to the Nth degree. Like I say, my interest is in going on the ride that the creator wants to take me on and letting myself be carried along on its current rather than trying to swim against it.

However, rightly or wrongly, I'm not remotely into reading fan fiction. I just really don't see how one individual fan's skewed interpretation of the source material (because anyone's interpretation is unavoidably going to be skewed in some regard and not mesh with the original creator's intent) has any relevance to it.

For example, countless users on the Evageeks fan forum have links in their site signatures to their own Evangelion fanfics, but I honestly wouldn't give any of them the time of day. Several of these appear to be billed as continuations of Evangelion 3.0, but all it would have taken was for anyone to see the first 10 minutes of the following film to render them completely irrelevant in the grander scheme of the story.

It's a double-edged sword, though. I wrote in another thread recently how Mardock Scramble author Tow Ubukata probably grew up as a fan of Ghost in the Shell and then went on to actually write an installment of the franchise himself with Arise. In this case, of course, Ubukata is being asked to write GitS stories, but sometimes all that separates an unknown writer's already existing fanfic from becoming an actual part of the franchise that inspired it is a label saying "Officially licensed". Look at how Nyoron! Churuya-san became a (sort of) part of the Haruhi Suzumiya franchise when it was made into an anime. Personally, I'm a big fan.

did the story, so far, take place on Earth? There's now been numerous mentions of the Earth

I would say that it takes place on an Earth, but not on our Earth.

Perhaps if you'd seen Gainax's The Wings of Honneamise, you'd better understand the point I've been making. Wikipedia, for example, describes the film's setting as "a different, Earthlike world of mid-20th century technology".

Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honnêamise - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

[Under "Plot"]

 

[HWR]

Episode 21
I’ll echo @Neil.T and @João Gomes in saying Viral becoming co-pilot was an awesome moment. Having watched the films I agree on the pacing point also.

 

[Ian Wolf]

Episode 21

Yes I too like Viral becoming the pilot. Humans and Beastmen uniting harmoniously again the common foe.

 

[Lordhippos]

Episode 21

I actually didn't mind seeing the Yoko teaching ep. Given the fast pace of the rest of the show it was kind of like a mini break.

Finally getting Viral on team gurren!

 

[Dai]

Episode 21
When the apocalypse is nigh and the tension is building, what else would the story do but spend a whole episode on a flashback to a primary school with a bunch of new characters? I understand why they did it, at least. Since practically the whole cast is about to go to war, they need to establish some stakes back on the home front to give the later conflicts some weight. The need to bring the pace grinding to a halt to develop Yoko for a while also highlights how much of her screen time has just been focused on her boobs and rifle up to this point. It's an inelegant solution to those problems though.

Parts like this are why I was wary of simulwatching a show like GL. When I'm binging it, I can just switch my brain off and let that shonen Burning Passion (TM) drag me along. When I pause to dissect every episode though, it doesn't always hold up to the scrutiny, and starts to buckle in places. We're getting towards the best part, at least, but I think watching GL this way has damaged my enjoyment of it. Some stories are best viewed through rose-tinted Kamina shades.

 

[Lordhippos]

Parts like this are why I was wary of simulwatching a show like GL. When I'm binging it, I can just switch my brain off and let that shonen Burning Passion (TM) drag me along. When I pause to dissect every episode though, it doesn't always hold up to the scrutiny, and starts to buckle in places.

My biggest issue I suppose with a simulwatch of something like GL is partially that we have all seen it before, so no new people to bring their ideas of how things are going to the discussion, and also partially that it's not deep enough as a mystery or whatever to bring all the crazy ideas to the front.

I loved Land of the Lustrous as it was so interesting to watch, and threw lots of curveballs, plus being only 12 episodes was nice and fairly short.

 

[Neil.T]

I too like Viral becoming the pilot. Humans and Beastmen uniting harmoniously again the common foe.

I like how Viral already has Kamina's style of bluster-filled speechifying down pat and is able to riff off of Simon.

He learns fast!

 

[Ian Wolf]

Episode 22

Spoiler

More fighting. However, there some nice moments of character development. Viral and Simon working together is one, but more interesting for me is Rossiu as he slowly succumbs to his own personal dispair, when he believes that everything he has planned has been thrown away due to Simon once again showign that Gurren Lagann is best.

Also interesting to see that the opening narration is gotten rid off, instead being replaced by a brief speech from Leeron, given while everyone else is fighting.

 

[Dai]

Episode 22
GL goes back to playing to its strengths, using momentum and intensity to paper over the cracks in its plot. The escalation of battle reaches insane levels as Simon first takes control of a city-sized robot, and then the moon, within a few minutes. Meanwhile the anti-spirals don't miss a beat, scaling up their response to match.

The story's treatment of Nia continues to be a weak point this episode. It was bad enough when she seemingly became a villain by unmotivated coincidence, but now we discover that she's just been damselled the whole time. Then Simon is told that his princess is in another castle, so he punches a big block for a power-up and waits for the next level to load.

 

[João Gomes]

I must agree with Dai that Nia is treated more like a device than a character. She deserved much better and so did Simon and I think the series would've been better for it, even if I absolutely love the ending. Either they could've made her into a full-blown villain and redeem her to get her back by the end or find yet another way to integrate her into the series.

Gurren Lagann is, without a doubt, a case of being more than the sum of its individual parts.

On the other hand

THIS SERIES IS SO RIDICULOUS. This is, again, a COMPLIMENT.

The Gurren Lagann drilling into the Arc Gurren with its arms crossed, combining into a cockpit within a cockpit and then snapping its neck before getting down to business is absurd but the whole sequence gives me goosebumps, it's incredibly well realized. That theme (which I associate with Viral, funnily enough) is straight napalm

This is thanks, of course, to technical prowess and great direction, but most of all to this beautifully positive and powerful tone of "we will win this no matter what" that permeates the entire series and makes me love it so much. I love that simply willing it, makes it so in this universe, no matter the odds.

We get a bit of Majora's Mask going down and another Evangelion visual throwback with Nia standing in for Kaworu and the Gurren Lagann standing for the Eva 01.

Simon going through with his attack and Nia moving out of the way was a beautiful moment of trust between them. I miss her, man.

This post was about Episode 22.