Moe
- Thread starter hopeful_monster
- Start date
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/h4KRQHvGUb0&hl=en_GB&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/h4KRQHvGUb0&hl=en_GB&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
UNKO-SWAAAAAAAN~~~
UNKO-SWAAAAAAAN~~~
Ah, but what you have expressed is the major fault with the term "moe". The "moe" you discribed at the top is not "moe" at all, but lolicom in moe's clothing, like the perverbial beast that wore the skin of its last victim to fool the next. It is this sad pollution of the term that I reject the most.kippy666 said:
Most (by no means all) lolicon characters are moe tho', it's where the term came from in the first place.Mohawk52 said:
But the bit at the top describes fanservice (which is fairly universal to all anime) not moe. Tsukkomi-ing your freind for gloating at you for being embarased about said panty shot would be moe (see Mio (k-on) or Kagami (lucky star)). Most recent moe shows have alost lacked any fanservice whatsoever, K-on!!, Sora no Woto and Angel Beats (that's the 3 most recent I've seen) all have none.
Bathing scenes, sex scenes and gainaxing also count, I know. Pantsu was simply the example given.Jayme said:
Sounded like a description of fanservice scenes to me. And has nothing to do with wether a character is moe or not.
Even K-on!'s beach ep didn't have service shots in it, the panty shot that did happen is unseen by the viewer. Moe does not require any fanservice element.
You have confused me as to which term you mean. Lolicom has been with us for centuries. Moe, in its true sense, only became globally discovered in the past three to four years, and in that time was swiftly highjacked by the lolifans as their design of choice, and use the term to mean lolicom, so you are correct in saying that not all lolicom is moe, but presently it is correct also to say mostly all lolicom is done in moe today. Answers to the question, what's the difference between lolicom and moe? should show you what I'm pointing at. :wink:Reaper gI said:
Moe originated in lolicon manga in the early 80's (no I'm not finding the damn citation). It then got picked up by 2ch in the early 90's in reference to "hybrids of the Lolikon (Lolita Complex) and bishoujo (beautiful girl) genres". That's the use everyone knows it from.Mohawk52 said:
Haruhi is from 2003 and that uses it freequently in the modern definition.
Evangelion (1995) is cited to have resulted in the definition being changed to include Rei, meaning it's already in use by then.
So it's been in use for at least 15 years now, probably closer to 30.
As regards to the difernce moe was desexualised but idealised (in apearance) loli.(pre eva)
It then droped the loli requirement, keeping all the bits that result in moe, but no longer requiring the character to be a loli. So it's characters with the aspects that make you protective towards young (i.e. grade school and below) girls, irrespective of their age. Mostly characters that have childish personality traits.
Therefore characters that actually are loli would almost always be moe. Unless portrayed very oddly.
Moe literally means "budding", it also is what the Japanese call a feeling of affection toward someone, or something cute. It can be a puppy, kitten, seal pup, anything that will make the viewer go "Ahhhhhh!" and want to hug and cuddle it. It doesn't necessarily have to be an underaged school girl, and certainly not one who shows her nickers, or whats under them. What you have just reported is how far the term has become infected and twisted to what it is today even to the back dating of any older character that could be shoe horned into the description.. The prosecution rests. :wink:Reaper gI said:
Moe take it's route from moeru (to burn) not from moe (to bud). Or the 2ch definition did, which is the one we use. Replace cute with like a little girl and I'd agree (cute happens to be a common trait in little girls, which is why it's there)Mohawk52 said:
Note the desexualised bit, wether the work the character is from puts them in adult situations or not is irrelevant. In most of the original examples the work is adult. Mostly the earlier games by Leaf or Tactics (esp the bit that splintered to form Key).
I gave the etymology as best I could, when the oldest use is from some 80's loli h-manga and a post on 2ch it doesn't make it easy to find the damn quote to back up.
So moe = possesing the qualities that make little girls endearing. Mostly cuteness, childlike clulessness about things, ocasional odd speach patterns etc.
Which seems to fit anything I can think of as an example of moe fine.
hopeful_monster
Thousand Master
Nice little hornet's nest I've kicked up, but strange most of the arguments seem to be about what Moe means rather than if it is good or not, though most people seem to be in the camp of "emotion is fine but the shows are drivel".
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
Moé's a cowards way of being popular. Have moe in your show if it's not the point? Sure, go nuts. Otherwise, don't darken my door.
ilmaestro
State Alchemist
If anyone has played me at Street Fighter IV and seen that my user title is "Moe" and my user icon is the kanji for "Moe" I'm sure you can guess my views on the subject.
It just saddens me that people could vote "against" the idea of moe, frankly.
OK, I'm not going to suggest that we all go out and buy Kud Wafter this week, but I feel like in any other medium anything that could elicit such a pure and genuine feeling for its characters would be lauded, not decried. :-/
Lupus kind of won the thread with Paz though, too much moesomeness.
It just saddens me that people could vote "against" the idea of moe, frankly.
OK, I'm not going to suggest that we all go out and buy Kud Wafter this week, but I feel like in any other medium anything that could elicit such a pure and genuine feeling for its characters would be lauded, not decried. :-/
Too awesome. I have listened and re-listened to that episode of AWO a few times just to hear Surat virtually screaming this.Professor Irony said:
Lupus kind of won the thread with Paz though, too much moesomeness.
I was almost tempted to get "Moe is the Sniper" printed on a t-shirt. Almost.
Also, this made far more sense in my mind than it does in reality:
Also, this made far more sense in my mind than it does in reality:
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
If FMP: Third Raid was being made and it was clear that K-on season 2 was cancelled to make this happen. Would you draw your axe for that?ilmaestro said:
Reverse the words and my grind is clear.
I was under the impression that the 4th FMP season is being held to wait for the last 2 novels (it was one but got split due to length) to come out; so they don't have to use filler or make up a **** ending.ConanThe3rd said:
KyoAni work on two projects at once all the time, recently K-on!! and Dissapearance of Haruhi (or Haruhi S2 and K-on!). Never heard of them dropping anything.
And it's not KyoAni type productions that are the problem. It's more the 10 or so other studios that could be trying something else and are instead trying to compete. The market can fairly clearly only support 2/3 moe shows at a time; and 2 of those slots are alocated to the most recent KyoAni and A1 Pictures productions.