Miyazaki - a bit boring?

[Rui]

If you liked Ocean Waves, Only Yesterday should blow you away. It's £6.99 on play.com and in the 2 for £10 deal. I mention it because I'm uhming and ahring whether to buy it in the deal or by itself. Haha.

Thankfully a side effect of my husband collecting all of the Ghibli DVDs is I can watch his. We grabbed Ponyo and something else in the same sale, £5 is a good price even if only one of us really enjoyed it!

Whereas in my experience, women rarely like anything anime beyond Miyazaki's films and 99% of males would be more likely to submit to actual castration.

I think that the reason the figures here diverge is that among casual fans, this is absolutely true. Women I have met who don't particularly like anime seem to tolerate Totoro and Spirited Away far more than men and rarely migrate to anything else or build up large collections. Even my mother in law will watch Laputa, but nothing else. Where I think ilmaestro's observations differ is that women who are heavily into anime seem to be less open to Miyazaki's films for some reason. It's not universal (Helen McCarthy is a massive Miyazaki fan after all, and nobody can question her anime fandom credentials) but there may be a grain of truth in there somewhere.

R

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

If you liked Ocean Waves, Only Yesterday should blow you away. It's £6.99 on play.com and in the 2 for £10 deal. I mention it because I'm uhming and ahring whether to buy it in the deal or by itself. Haha.

Thankfully a side effect of my husband collecting all of the Ghibli DVDs is I can watch his. We grabbed Ponyo and something else in the same sale, £5 is a good price even if only one of us really enjoyed it!

Whereas in my experience, women rarely like anything anime beyond Miyazaki's films and 99% of males would be more likely to submit to actual castration.

I think that the reason the figures here diverge is that among casual fans, this is absolutely true. Women I have met who don't particularly like anime seem to tolerate Totoro and Spirited Away far more than men and rarely migrate to anything else or build up large collections. Even my mother in law will watch Laputa, but nothing else. Where I think ilmaestro's observations differ is that women who are heavily into anime seem to be less open to Miyazaki's films for some reason. It's not universal (Helen McCarthy is a massive Miyazaki fan after all, and nobody can question her anime fandom credentials) but there may be a grain of truth in there somewhere.

R

This clearly warrants one of those useless BS surveys that universities occassionally do that are anecdotally interesting but scientifically worthless, like whether people like jam better on toast or in sandwiches.

 

[Reaper gI]

This clearly warrants one of those useless BS surveys that universities occassionally do that are anecdotally interesting but scientifically worthless, like whether people like jam better on toast or in sandwiches.

Can you not see the value in that reaserch, I'm ashamed. Clearly useful in chosing which should be used in any potential jam advertising campaigns. Similary knowing audience demographics for film well means you can target ads better. Nothing wrong with doing reaserch with financial value.

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

This clearly warrants one of those useless BS surveys that universities occassionally do that are anecdotally interesting but scientifically worthless, like whether people like jam better on toast or in sandwiches.

Can you not see the value in that reaserch, I'm ashamed. Clearly useful in chosing which should be used in any potential jam advertising campaigns. Similary knowing audience demographics for film well means you can target ads better. Nothing wrong with doing reaserch with financial value.

In fairness I made that up, the ones I'm thinking of tend to be much madder and less useful =P but I couldn't remember any examples

 

[Vashdaman]

Miyazaki's movies are for children and guys

Obviously the former. No idea where you're coming from on the later.

Totally anecdotal - I must know/have heard from six or seven women who don't particularly like his movies, and no guys that I can specifically think of. It makes some sense to me the more I think about it, but it would be hard to articulate without coming across slightly controversially.

In published interviews, I believe the director has spoken quite explicitly on the fact his films target children.

I don't necessarily mean by design, just as a result of how they come out.

This is a strange one, I really can't think of any reason why Miyazaki's films would appeal more to men than women, if fact I would say if people were to stereotype they would probably come to the conclusion that his film's are more aimed at women( strong female leads,often very gentle stories, little violence ect). Can you try to explain why you feel this, it would be interesting.

Also while Miyazaki's films(excluding the masterpeice Mononoke) are clearly made with children primarily in mind, the beauty of his movies are how they do transcend all age barriers, whether it be Totoro or Ponyo they all contain such genuienly touching and heartfelt observations, which no Disney film(I have seen) has ever come close to achieving. Most child aimed films tend to resort to becoming cheese fests, while Miyazaki never does.

On topic I am one of those creatures ilmaestro mentions who aren't too fond of Ghibli movies - the ones I rate are Howl, Earthsea, Ocean Waves etc whereas things like Porco Rosso drive me insane. In many online anime communities, not liking Ghibli is akin to loudly declaring that you eat babies, so I rarely hear similar opinions.

:? I'm going to pretend I didn't read that.

 

[HdE]

These sorts of topics make me smile.

Miyazaki isn't my bag, I have to admit. I have a special fondness for Laputaa, and I can pretty much either take anything else or leave it.

I see Miyazaki the same way as I see Leiji Matsumoto. I'm not overly familiar with the works of either, and that doesn't really bother me one way or another. But they're both creative talents who produce stuff from time to time that's interesting to me.

 

[Lupus]

Miyazaki hasn't made a good film since Princess Mononoke.

Nausicáá and Laputa forever.

 

[Aion]

The only Miyazaki film I recollect rating highly is my first ever Ghibli film; Princess Mononoke. That aside, the Ghibli titles liked by me are all ones aimed more at older/adult fans - the type Miyazaki has always seemed to run away from. Unless the film is aimed at brats or has an environmental message of some variety, you can be almost certain the directing job gets passed onto someone else. Ponyo's childish story, full of unexplained points, highlights Miyazaki's level quite clearly (nice visuals; shame about everything else.)

Grave of the Fireflies, Ocean Waves, Only Yesterday, Whisper of the Heart - Miyazaki directed none. This has already made me think of him as a limited, very over-rated director - Howl's Castle being a mess and Spirited Away simply looking puuurty.

Then again, I don't rate Oshii's pretentious, imposing directing (which results in lifeless characters speaking for him and bird imagery) or Kon's bizarreness (surreal dreams/Paprika tentacle rape) highly, either. Most anime films aren't very good and are praised by the ignorant/easily pleased. That's why it irked me so much to see everyone acting like sheep and rushing to say R.I.P to somehow show their respect on the internet for some fella they didn't truly care much about, previously; rushing to see his work all of sudden. Dumb people irritate me, greatly...

...Y'know, I tend not to like anime films. I'm gonna keep KOR: Summer's Beginning as my favourite, masturbate over Kawajiri's manly action flicks and leave it at that. It's simpler and easier that way, I feel.

 

[Aion]

There are many others with "great talent" I might feel obliged to show my undying loyalty and respect to by typing 'R.I.P' on the internet to look caring... before moving onto masturbating over more 2D girls, forgetting all about what I'd been grieving over. It'd be ******* terrible if Kawajiri died, for example - who else would direct my manly animated action flicks? The world would be a far sadder place without Highlander: The Search for Vengeance.

I mean, ****, I might get cancer and die soon, but I wouldn't want my fans to shed tears over me. Nor would I attempt to look like a true man/woman by rambling/trying to hide the fact I cried like a baby during my last few days.

Too many people die all the time for anyone to care about those they don't know dying. Only drama queens care about such things, or those trying to score points. Humans are a selfish bunch, really...

 

[kupocake]

Oh Aion... you're far too Emo to be genuinely insensitive, so stop trying so hard.

 

[ilmaestro]

This is a strange one, I really can't think of any reason why Miyazaki's films would appeal more to men than women, if fact I would say if people were to stereotype they would probably come to the conclusion that his film's are more aimed at women( strong female leads,often very gentle stories, little violence ect). Can you try to explain why you feel this, it would be interesting.

Perhaps "a certain type of guy" would be a better way of putting it, then. I was trying deliberately not to stereotype and to actually consider it a bit more, which is probably where you're running into the problem of seeing it from the angle I'm coming from.

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

That's why it irked me so much to see everyone acting like sheep and rushing to say R.I.P to somehow show their respect on the internet for some fella they didn't truly care much about, previously; rushing to see his work all of sudden. Dumb people irritate me, greatly...

I would just like to say that a lot of people actually really liked his work and I personally was very much interested in the man himself too, so if that makes me dumb so be it. And while it's less meaningful to say RIP if you don't really know anything about the person or have seen any of their work it's still a token of paying your respects.

 

[Aion]

Ok, then: my bad. I didn't intend to hurt your feelings. (And I never saw you ask about his work/grave rob after his death.)

RIP, Kon Satoshi. The only work of yours I liked was Millennium Actress, and it kind of pisses me off that so many people tell you to rest in peace when people are more likely to tell me to do the same before my death, but whatever - it matters not.

 

[Genkina Hito]

Back to the topic at hand...

From what I have seen from this conversation it seems like people are missing the simple beauty of these films. Leave aside the high quality visuals and focus on the delicate layers of change that each character goes through.

Just because you can’t see an external conflict or nobody shines a lantern on some pop-psychology doesn’t mean there’s nothing going on. What I took from the movies was that there was an internal conflict or maturation with each of the characters. I think this applies to all of Miyazaki’s films.

I think a common theme is the rite of passage and the choices and events that shape them.

The heroines are forced to grow up. They do so, not by relying on men but by buckling down and working towards what they believe in which is a much more positive thing to see a female do in a medium where they are oh so very easily turned into nothing more than T&A or soppy nobodies.

I also think we have to be careful in not putting our cultural values onto these films. As has been previously mentioned, they stretch back over twenty years, they are primarily for children – especially Ponyo. They are also primarily for a Japanese audience. I hated - hated - Pom Poko but my Japanese teacher explained why it was popular. I still dislike it but I don't have to watch it so there.

 

[Aion]

I like to juggle topics between my right and left.

Sweetness, I think you're missing the simple fact that Miyazaki hasn't directed the Ghibli films with solid characterization - instead covering shallowness with flashiness and fantasy. In terms of character growth, Whisper of the Heart is about a girl struggling to find a role for herself in the world, and Only Yesterday is about a woman deciding how she wants to live the rest of her life. Characters in real world settings naturally are far more easy to relate to and believe.

 

[Vashdaman]

This is a strange one, I really can't think of any reason why Miyazaki's films would appeal more to men than women, if fact I would say if people were to stereotype they would probably come to the conclusion that his film's are more aimed at women( strong female leads,often very gentle stories, little violence ect). Can you try to explain why you feel this, it would be interesting.

Perhaps "a certain type of guy" would be a better way of putting it, then. I was trying deliberately not to stereotype and to actually consider it a bit more, which is probably where you're running into the problem of seeing it from the angle I'm coming from.

I wasn't trying to suggest you were stereotyping(as you are clearly not), I was just trying to say that if I were to stereotype(which is stupid)I would assume that ghibli films would be more popular with woman. But on the whole, as far as I'm aware both genders seem to equally appreciate the movies. Still I'm interested to hear why you came to that conclusion about guy's enjoying Miyazaki's films more.

To me these films are like the best kind of childrens story or fairytale. Because while they may be aimed at children, no matter how old you get, they always seem to have that same effect of wonder on you. Very few animations actually capture what children are really like better than Miyazaki's.

 

[Genkina Hito]

I like to juggle topics between my right and left.

Sweetness, I think you're missing the simple fact that Miyazaki hasn't directed the Ghibli films with solid characterization - instead covering shallowness with flashiness and fantasy. In terms of character growth, Whisper of the Heart is about a girl struggling to find a role for herself in the world, and Only Yesterday is about a woman deciding how she wants to live the rest of her life. Characters in real world settings naturally are far more easy to relate to and believe.

And Kiki's Delivery Service isn't? This traditional country girl is grows up when she reaches the big city. Spirited Away is all about growing up. Chihiro has to save her body and soul from a witch and does this by stopping being a spoilt brat and overcoming challenges.

Seriously dude, it's childlike not childish.

 

[Aion]

Kiki's Delivery Service; a film about a little girl riding around on a broom, the girl arriving at a big city... and sod all happening for the remainder. She does some chores and randomly saves a random airship from destruction for some endgame drama - the randomness being a result of nothing building up throughout the film. The fact it's aimed at kids is used as an excuse to cover up the fact that it's so uneventful it'd bore anyone with an attention span to tears.

Whisper of the Heart is about the transition from childhood to becoming an adult. Kiki is about a girl on a broom living in a big city. I'm not mistaking it for childlike; it is childish.


Also, if you're intent on being overly friendly, I'd prefer 'mate' over 'dude'. I'm not American, and your bolding suggests you aren't a dude.

 

[Genkina Hito]

Kiki's Delivery Service; a film about a little girl riding around on a broom, the girl arriving at a big city... and sod all happening for the remainder. She does some chores and randomly saves a random airship from destruction for some endgame drama - the randomness being a result of nothing building up throughout the film. The fact it's aimed at kids is used as an excuse to cover up the fact that it's so uneventful it'd bore anyone with an attention span to tears.

Whisper of the Heart is about the transition from childhood to becoming an adult. Kiki is about a girl on a broom living in a big city. I'm not mistaking it for childlike; it is childish.


Also, if you're intent on being overly friendly, I'd prefer 'mate' over 'dude'. I'm not American, and your bolding suggests you aren't a dude.

Just because you can't see conflict doesn't mean that the film has nothing interesting happening because there is, it's just harder to pinpoint unlike macho-macho stuff like Fist of the North Star. There are all sorts of themes going on such as the culture clash between young and old, tradition and modernity.

Also, Kiki is becoming an adult. The film is about her finding out what she is good for and having strong female role-models around her that show her magic isn't everything and sometimes it can be hard to find.

And that final scene is well directed.

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree over this issue.

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

Back to the topic at hand...


Just because you can’t see an external conflict or nobody shines a lantern on some pop-psychology doesn’t mean there’s nothing going on. What I took from the movies was that there was an internal conflict or maturation with each of the characters. I think this applies to all of Miyazaki’s films.

I think a common theme is the rite of passage and the choices and events that shape them.

The heroines are forced to grow up. They do so, not by relying on men but by buckling down and working towards what they believe in which is a much more positive thing to see a female do in a medium where they are oh so very easily turned into nothing more than T&A or soppy nobodies.

I think that's a fair comment. I just don't particularly care for what I have seen. I'm not sure it's a lack of "stuff going on" it's just what was going on didn't really grab me. But as I've said I'll need to see more Ghibli before I can make a more balanced comment. The only Miyazaki I've seen has been Spirited Away and Howl's so I guess 50/50's not bad really, it's just a lack of interest in the genre for me I think.