Global Warming and Evolution

[shira]

Ugh, of course you're laughed at for denying evolution and global warming. Both are overwhelmingly backed up by scientists and objective science.

You idiot. There are tonnes of scientists who question the extent that humans affect Global Warming.

You think i'd just blindly deny it?

Google my friend.

 

[Arbalest]

To be honest, i've neer understood high school level education, and i can safely say i never would like to, all i will say is that its one thing that needs a thorough work over. Scotlands system isn't much different in that respect, however i will at least say for the majority of people i knew in my year who got 1's(equivalent to A in GCSE) and A's in their highers, they where never ones to just quote from a textbook or anything like that, they where far more open minded. We basically sat there and got the work done, regardless of whether it was crap or not. I'm not saying most aren't like that, but the ones i knew(including myself) weren't/aren't.

@CitizenGeek: Theories, scientists, whichever you may suggest, they all will argue both sides of everything, Evolution and Global Warming included. There is no real questioning it, they are still arguments which are opinionated as well as backed by some theories and such. But again, theories are only assumptions in most respects, only in this case you would argue that they are made by those who have "great" knowledge in that area of discussion, which again, proves nothing.

 

[CitizenGeek]

There are not "tonnes" of scientists who reject climate change. There's about as many as there are who, erm, reject evolution. Don't you see a pattern here? The United Nations put together a massive investigation into it and concluded that, beyond reasonable doubt, humans are causing destructive climate change and we ought to do something about it.

 

[shira]

There are not "tonnes" of scientists who reject climate change. There's about as many as there are who, erm, reject evolution. Don't you see a pattern here? The United Nations put together a massive investigation into it and concluded that, beyond reasonable doubt, humans are causing destructive climate change and we ought to do something about it.

No, you'll find there are alot who oppose it XD

Yes, there is climate change, but it's not effected by humans as much as you think it is. We're effectively just coming out of an Ice Age, so it's natural for the planet to warm up.

 

[Outlawstar]

There are not "tonnes" of scientists who reject climate change. There's about as many as there are who, erm, reject evolution. Don't you see a pattern here? The United Nations put together a massive investigation into it and concluded that, beyond reasonable doubt, humans are causing destructive climate change and we ought to do something about it.

CG your very wrong here, there are are indeed a large amount of scientists opposed to anthropogenic global warming, and growing on a daily basis, and I assume your reffering to the IPCC, well according to a report made by them, the ice sheets are infact expanding at this time(be glad to link you if you want), weve just had the coldest winter in decades, the sun is quieter than its been in years.

One other important matter to remember is that the entire solar system has been undergoing heating, not just Earth, and currently due to the Suns unusual quietness, the Earth seems to be undergoing something of a cooling.

Dont be so quick to believe something without thoroughly researching something, otherwise youre not doing yourself justice in my opinion.

 

[ayase]

One point I might make about the whole climate change subject - Humanity is responsible for increasing the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. That much can't be denied. We burn lots of stuff and deforest the plants that turn the CO2 back into oxygen. And we breathe oxygen. Whether you think global warming is our fault or not, cutting CO2 emissions is still a pretty good idea.

Plus, even if we're not causing it who's to say we shouldn't still try to stop it?

 

[Outlawstar]

One point I might make about the whole climate change subject - Humanity is responsible for increasing the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. That much can't be denied. We burn lots of stuff and deforest the plants that turn the CO2 back into oxygen. And we breathe oxygen. Whether you think global warming is our fault or not, cutting CO2 emissions is still a pretty good idea.

Plus, even if we're not causing it who's to say we shouldn't still try to stop it?

Oh certainly, and personally interesting though is that, the more co2 there is in the atmosphere the more plants that grow and prosper, and thus the more oxygen, so that seems to be natures balancing act, then of course theres the problem of deforestation.
The whole issue has been blown out of proportion by the media, and Al Gore with his little movie based on fake science, which he Won a nobel prize for and drove home in his gas-guzzling suv to his house that is about as green as his red face.

 

[deactivated]

Exactly, even if it's not a danger to us, I think it's a good thing that we all think it is.
Might be the first stage in learning to respect the planet again.


/hippie

 

[Outlawstar]

Exactly, even if it's not a danger to us, I think it's a good thing that we all think it is.
Might be the first stage in learning to respect the planet again.


/hippie

I see what your saying, certainly the issue has made more people environmentally aware, but how many people actually act on that is a different matter.
We really need to bring attention to other imporatant environmental issues that are killing people and animals every day.

My only fear is that the governments of the world are just too darn greedy in the long run to really make any difference until its too late.

 

[ayase]

I don't really have a problem with people who don't believe global warming is man made. That's their choice to make, but my problem comes with the attitude of a lot of these people which is that of "It's natural, we can't do anything about it." Bollocks. If there's one thing humanity can do, and has been since the beginning of civilisation, it's alter natural processes for our own benefit. We can domesticate animals, divert rivers to irrigate farmland, dig fossil fuels out of the ground and burn them for energy, create vaccines to wipe out diseases and even genetically engineer and clone living things, but for some reason we can't do anything about the climate? The people who popularised this line are simply feigning humanity's helplessness when it suits them, which makes me think they must have an agenda of their own, possibly connected to one of those things I've listed above which makes rather a lot of money.

 

[Outlawstar]

I don't really have a problem with people who don't believe global warming is man made. That's their choice to make, but my problem comes with the attitude of a lot of these people which is that of "It's natural, we can't do anything about it." Bollocks. If there's one thing humanity can do, and has been since the beginning of civilisation, it's alter natural processes for our own benefit. We can domesticate animals, divert rivers to irrigate farmland, dig fossil fuels out of the ground and burn them for energy, create vaccines to wipe out diseases and even genetically engineer and clone living things, but for some reason we can't do anything about the climate? The people who popularised this line are simply feigning humanity's helplessness when it suits them, which makes me think they must have an agenda of their own, possibly connected to one of those things I've listed above which makes rather a lot of money.

Again I agree with you, the endless resourcefulness of humanity is there for all to see, unfortunatly though, so is the endless greed and ignorance, and when those two words best sum up the governments of today, the future dont look so bright, but hey Im an optimist, fingers crossed that the governments starts putting money into projects that can actually make a difference, and technologies that eliminate our reliance on fossil fules(technologies Im sure they already have, but thats a whole other thread

 

[shira]

I don't really have a problem with people who don't believe global warming is man made. That's their choice to make, but my problem comes with the attitude of a lot of these people which is that of "It's natural, we can't do anything about it." Bollocks. If there's one thing humanity can do, and has been since the beginning of civilisation, it's alter natural processes for our own benefit. We can domesticate animals, divert rivers to irrigate farmland, dig fossil fuels out of the ground and burn them for energy, create vaccines to wipe out diseases and even genetically engineer and clone living things, but for some reason we can't do anything about the climate? The people who popularised this line are simply feigning humanity's helplessness when it suits them, which makes me think they must have an agenda of their own, possibly connected to one of those things I've listed above which makes rather a lot of money.

We do harm the environment yes but, it's pretty minor. Should a volcanoe pipe up, that's far worse than what we do. I can't stand the attitude we should do every little thing we can to save the environment. Fair enough, dont drive 4X4's if you dont need em, but thats logical, it saves me money, and the environment. Changing to energy saving light bulbs, fair enough, that saves me cash, and I still get a nice light home. On the other hand, i'm not likely to turn my PC off unless I know it's really gonna benefit me. But then, i've come across idiots who've commented on my carbon footprint because of stupid ****. I cant remember the example now, but it was something to do with "You're carbon footprint is higher because you buy lots of small bags of sugar as opposed to me, I buy one huge bag. Less packaging aint it? Saves the planet like"- What the **** ever. That is so minimal, I couldnt give a ****. A loud fart would harm the environment just as much as far as i'm concerned.

I guess what i've said don't make the most sense. Maybe il reword and edit it later, but quite frankly, i'm not in the mood right now.

 

[ayase]

No, that makes sense. I personally think we're causing quite a bit of the damage, but you're right, petty little things like that will do nothing compared to burning fossil fuels for energy, whether it's in electricity generation or in the ever increasing number of cars. We have alternative technologies for both of these purposes, but aren't using them and that's because, as Outlawstar says, people are greedy (not to mention corrupt). It's better for the pockets of the businesses built around fossil fuels that we continue to use them - It's bad not only for the environment, but for most of the general population who now have to pay through the nose for electricity and petrol.

 

[Outlawstar]

I don't really have a problem with people who don't believe global warming is man made. That's their choice to make, but my problem comes with the attitude of a lot of these people which is that of "It's natural, we can't do anything about it." Bollocks. If there's one thing humanity can do, and has been since the beginning of civilisation, it's alter natural processes for our own benefit. We can domesticate animals, divert rivers to irrigate farmland, dig fossil fuels out of the ground and burn them for energy, create vaccines to wipe out diseases and even genetically engineer and clone living things, but for some reason we can't do anything about the climate? The people who popularised this line are simply feigning humanity's helplessness when it suits them, which makes me think they must have an agenda of their own, possibly connected to one of those things I've listed above which makes rather a lot of money.

We do harm the environment yes but, it's pretty minor. Should a volcanoe pipe up, that's far worse than what we do. I can't stand the attitude we should do every little thing we can to save the environment. Fair enough, dont drive 4X4's if you dont need em, but thats logical, it saves me money, and the environment. Changing to energy saving light bulbs, fair enough, that saves me cash, and I still get a nice light home. On the other hand, i'm not likely to turn my PC off unless I know it's really gonna benefit me. But then, i've come across idiots who've commented on my carbon footprint because of stupid ****. I cant remember the example now, but it was something to do with "You're carbon footprint is higher because you buy lots of small bags of sugar as opposed to me, I buy one huge bag. Less packaging aint it? Saves the planet like"- What the F*** ever. That is so minimal, I couldnt give a ****. A loud fart would harm the environment just as much as far as i'm concerned.

I guess what i've said don't make the most sense. Maybe il reword and edit it later, but quite frankly, i'm not in the mood right now.

Your right about the volcanoes, but not in terms of Co2, Volcaones pump out huge amounts of So2, Sulfer Dioxide, which inturn prevents the atmosphere from cleaning out the Methane, which is a greenhouse gas far more potent than Co2, this can cause global temperature increases for long periods of time during such events.

I get what your saying about the minimal solutions, its all just another way to blame us, the average joe, make it out as if its our fault, which of course to an extent it is, but in reality, we now RELY on the government for all basic aspects of life, something I personally think needs to be changed, and they are the ones who make planet changing decisions, they are the ones who refuse to give up fossil fuels and suppress advances in alternate technologies, while making meagre wind farms and solar panels that are just to expensive for the average joe, makes me mad so it does, ha.

 

[ayase]

...in reality, we now RELY on the government for all basic aspects of life, something I personally think needs to be changed, and they are the ones who make planet changing decisions, they are the ones who refuse to give up fossil fuels and suppress advances in alternate technologies, while making meagre wind farms and solar panels that are just to expensive for the average joe, makes me mad so it does, ha.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. If we're going to be the ones who have to individually solve the world's problems then we're going to want a hell of a lot of money and power given back to us from the government. They've managed to get us into the state of "Don't worry about anything, you just give us your money and then we'll sort all the problems out" - Except they don't sort the problems out, even when we give them power over our lives, and pay them to do it!

 

[shira]

No, that makes sense. I personally think we're causing quite a bit of the damage, but you're right, petty little things like that will do nothing compared to burning fossil fuels for energy, whether it's in electricity generation or in the ever increasing number of cars. We have alternative technologies for both of these purposes, but aren't using them and that's because, as Outlawstar says, people are greedy (not to mention corrupt). It's better for the pockets of the businesses built around fossil fuels that we continue to use them - It's bad not only for the environment, but for most of the general population who now have to pay through the nose for electricity and petrol.

I know. I belive we should use as much Carbon Neutral as possible. Not sure what the exact term is though, so i'm gonna refer to it as, Carbon Neutral. The only things i've seen "Good for environment! Carbon Neutral" is on petty buisness cards.

I also just don't care that much about Global Warming... I guess.

I get the feeling a certain someone is gonna go crazy and tell me i'm wrong and I should be worrying though.

 

[CitizenGeek]

CG your very wrong here, there are are indeed a large amount of scientists opposed to anthropogenic global warming, and growing on a daily basis, and I assume your reffering to the IPCC, well according to a report made by them, the ice sheets are infact expanding at this time(be glad to link you if you want), weve just had the coldest winter in decades, the sun is quieter than its been in years.

Yes, please do link to it.

I have no idea what you mean when you say climate change denialism is growing on a daily basis. I really don't see that movement getting any traction. It's reserved exclusively for right-wing loudmouths, as far as I can see.

One other important matter to remember is that the entire solar system has been undergoing heating, not just Earth, and currently due to the Suns unusual quietness, the Earth seems to be undergoing something of a cooling.

And this is where you show how stunningly ill-informed you are. "Global warming", the greenhouse effect, is just one aspect to the the umbrella problem of climate change. It's not just that some parts of the world are heating up, the inverse is true too. And why would the IPCC lie to us? What does the U.N. have to gain by conning the world into believing our excessive and selfish overuse of fossil fuels and our careless attitude to the environment is having the exact effect any level-headed person would assume it's having - a destructive one?

Dont be so quick to believe something without thoroughly researching something, otherwise youre not doing yourself justice in my opinion.

You're obviously just a sucker for conspiracy theories or something. However, that juvenile trait is actually pretty damaging and I wish the deniers would really shut the heck up and stop trying to thwart the efforts to make people respect our environment a little more.

 

[CitizenGeek]

but in reality, we now RELY on the government for all basic aspects of life, something I personally think needs to be changed, and they are the ones who make planet changing decisions, they are the ones who refuse to give up fossil fuels and suppress advances in alternate technologies, while making meagre wind farms and solar panels that are just to expensive for the average joe, makes me mad so it does, ha.

You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you're saying that governments have too much power and it's a bad, bad thing and that the government should, in fact, have much less power. And then you proceed to say that it's a shame the government doesn't have even more power to be able to ban firms from using fossil fuels and force other firms to sell solar panels at lower costs. Either you want to government to have minimal amounts of power, or you want it to have more. Make up your mind!

Again, I know you loves yourself the oddball, laughably unfeasible conspiracy theories (I think I remember you saying that 9/11 was orchestrated by the U.S. government one time, which actually makes me cringe with embarrassment for you!) but tell me how exactly are world governments supressing developments in cleaner technologies? As far as I know, it's the governments of the West that are the only ones subsidising that kind of development in any way at all. And, besides, don't you want the government to have less control, in which case it would be unable to influence how technology develops?

I'm actually kind of shocked at how stunningly superficial your world view is. All this talk of "I'm just an average joe and the government/Al Gore/environmentalism is out to get me!" demonstrates an entirely childish, introverted way at looking at things.

 

[Outlawstar]

Yes, please do link to it.

I have no idea what you mean when you say climate change denialism is growing on a daily basis. I really don't see that movement getting any traction. It's reserved exclusively for right-wing loudmouths, as far as I can see

Insults ey, ha, oh well, play it your way my friend.
Anyway you dont see because you dont look, simple as that.

Unfotunatly I cant find the orignal IPCC article on that behemoth of a website, but luckily I have some quotes from it saved.
You can correlate them pretty easily.

“Current global model studies project that the Antarctic ice sheet will remain too cold for widespread surface melting and is expected to gain in mass due to increased snowfall.â€

 

[Outlawstar]

but in reality, we now RELY on the government for all basic aspects of life, something I personally think needs to be changed, and they are the ones who make planet changing decisions, they are the ones who refuse to give up fossil fuels and suppress advances in alternate technologies, while making meagre wind farms and solar panels that are just to expensive for the average joe, makes me mad so it does, ha.

You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you're saying that governments have too much power and it's a bad, bad thing and that the government should, in fact, have much less power. And then you proceed to say that it's a shame the government doesn't have even more power to be able to ban firms from using fossil fuels and force other firms to sell solar panels at lower costs. Either you want to government to have minimal amounts of power, or you want it to have more. Make up your mind!

Again, I know you loves yourself the oddball, laughably unfeasible conspiracy theories (I think I remember you saying that 9/11 was orchestrated by the U.S. government one time, which actually makes me cringe with embarrassment for you!) but tell me how exactly are world governments supressing developments in cleaner technologies? As far as I know, it's the governments of the West that are the only ones subsidising that kind of development in any way at all. And, besides, don't you want the government to have less control, in which case it would be unable to influence how technology develops?

I'm actually kind of shocked at how stunningly superficial your world view is. All this talk of "I'm just an average joe and the government/Al Gore/environmentalism is out to get me!" demonstrates an entirely childish, introverted way at looking at things.

I must say Im genuinly surprised at the sheer amount of words youve put in my mouth on this one, definitly a record for you, and I must say it is truly pitiful how you somehow always feel the need to resort to sly remarks and insults, cant you see that doestin help.

All the things youve mentioned Id be glad to answer, just not here, not the place CG.