Get in the Simulwatch - Neon Genesis Evangelion [End of Eva - 21/7]
- Thread starter Professor Irony
- Start date
It would make more sense to me if it was Ritsuko's mother, given that it's among a collection of her inner thoughts, but I dunno.
Episode 14
Partly a recap episode, but we do get half an episode's worth of new content too. Rei's stream of consciousness-style poem is easily the most continuous dialogue we've had from her so far, but any possible insight into her mind is hidden behind metaphor again. With hindsight, it's clear that there are a couple of arch clues in the field of identical flowers and, rather more directly, the line of repeating figures, but I certainly didn't pick up on what those might represent when I originally saw the show. The line about 'a woman who does not bleed' also seems significant.
On a different note, Ritsuko seems convinced Unit 00 intended to attack her, rather than Rei - unsure what could be behind that one.
I had really meant to write up a bit about the second Eva Saturn game for today, but I haven't had a chance to do it yet, so hopefully I'll get that later on today.
Episode 14
Partly a recap episode, but we do get half an episode's worth of new content too. Rei's stream of consciousness-style poem is easily the most continuous dialogue we've had from her so far, but any possible insight into her mind is hidden behind metaphor again. With hindsight, it's clear that there are a couple of arch clues in the field of identical flowers and, rather more directly, the line of repeating figures, but I certainly didn't pick up on what those might represent when I originally saw the show. The line about 'a woman who does not bleed' also seems significant.
On a different note, Ritsuko seems convinced Unit 00 intended to attack her, rather than Rei - unsure what could be behind that one.
I had really meant to write up a bit about the second Eva Saturn game for today, but I haven't had a chance to do it yet, so hopefully I'll get that later on today.
I agree.
Here's the image, another old-school photo off my screen. It's the largest black lettering across the pipe:
It looks as if it's also signed in red, but it's not legible on my screen, so I consulted Evageeks again. The quotes section for episode 13 includes:
'(Large black graffiti inside the Magi left by Naoko Akagi): "Ikari, you jerk!" '
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Episode_13#Quotes
I guess it must be her name in red, then.
It ties in with a line of Shinji's in tomorrow's episode, I think...
Is that "Second Impression", the one with Shinji's potential love interest that's basically just a female version of himself? That... demands psychoanalysis or something.
Thank goodness they came up with Mana instead for the later game "Girlfriend of Steel".
#####
[Again, typed before I read the Prof's post, so forgive any overlap.]
Episode 14
Check the MAGI's recorders. Nothing concerning such an incident was recorded.
A semi-recap episode where Gendo reports to SEELE on progress so far, and the Angels are given names for the first time. There's talk of following SEELE's "scenario", implying that the events we're seeing are all part of something that has been previously discussed and agreed upon — even if Gendo seems to have his own ideas.
The second half of the episode is new material, where Unit-00 again goes out of control as Shinji and Rei swap Evas. Ritsuko has reason to believe that the prototype has a grudge against her.
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WMD
Guild Member
Episode 14
Reis internal monologue is incredibly well done. All the visuals throughout are superb. And it works as a kind of precursor to what we will get in episodes 25 and 26!
It was interesting that Asuka asks herself "what is the first child?" Not who but what. She's never liked Rei but that is a pretty big question for her to be gettj g to at this stage.
Does Gendo care too much about Rei? It's an interesting question to pose as so far hes always been so focused on his mission at the expense of human relationships. Could this ruin his plans? Hes still super confident anyway.
Reis internal monologue is incredibly well done. All the visuals throughout are superb. And it works as a kind of precursor to what we will get in episodes 25 and 26!
It was interesting that Asuka asks herself "what is the first child?" Not who but what. She's never liked Rei but that is a pretty big question for her to be gettj g to at this stage.
Does Gendo care too much about Rei? It's an interesting question to pose as so far hes always been so focused on his mission at the expense of human relationships. Could this ruin his plans? Hes still super confident anyway.
It is really interesting, because Eva is peppered with vague and oblique dialogue.
ADV's old subtitles also read "Just what is the First Child?"
Asuka's actual line in Japanese is: "Faasuto-tte, donna ko na no?"
It literally means "What kind of child is the First?"
Used in relation to a girl, "ko" is really just the same as "person", so it can be taken as "What kind of person is the First Child?"
"Donna" is indeed used to mean things like "what type?" or "what variety?" but... translating it as bluntly as "Just what is the First Child?" still seems a bit of a stretch to me. It feels more like Asuka's saying "The First Child... What is she actually like, really?"
WMD
Guild Member
Which is a fair question as well. Rei has always had mystery around her and Asuka, loud and blunt, obviously struggles with Reis quiet bluntness.
I have a feeling now that the adv script was done with the future reveal of who/what Rei is in mind.
What does the new dub use for that line?
I have a feeling now that the adv script was done with the future reveal of who/what Rei is in mind.
What does the new dub use for that line?
Whereabouts in the episode is that? I was going to look it up for you, but I couldn't find it.
Is that "Second Impression", the one with Shinji's potential love interest that's basically just a female version of himself? That... demands psychoanalysis or something.
Thank goodness they came up with Mana instead for the later game "Girlfriend of Steel".
That's the one! It hadn't occurred to me before, but now that you mention it... yeah. Concern.
I don't know much about Girlfriend of Steel, but from the art I've seen, Mana looks a hell of a lot like Yui. Big Concern.
But anyway, as ep14 is 50% clipshow, let's have a quick look at Neon Genesis Evangelion: 2nd Impression
Released for the Sega Saturn in 1997, this is the sequel to 1st Impression (as you may have guessed) and features similar visual novel-style gameplay spliced with a simpler battle system, although this time it introduces an entirely new character. Mayumi Yamagishi is a bookish girl transferred into Shinji's class whose significance to the story depends heavily on the player's actions.
As before, the game has never been released in English and there is no direct synopsis available that I can find, but again there seem to be quite a number of possible routes for the player to take, with a wide variety of good and bad outcomes. In the run up to a game-only angel attack, the basic plot seems to involve Kensuke, Tohji and Shinji forming a band for the school festival. Depending on your choices, it is possible to recruit either Asuka or Mayumi as the band's singer, each with their own insert song for a bit of light-hearted fun, but the game can go to some much darker places too. One route appears to reveal that Mayumi has the core of the angel inside herself, leading to scenes of her either attempting suicide or shouting for Shinji to kill her, in a bid to avert the attack.
The battle scenes rely more heavily on the Saturn's 3D capabilities this time around and look fairly average for their time, but there does seem to be much more animation included than before and it's better quality too (at least in the sense of having more movement), even if a lot of it appears to be cribbed from the main show.
There are a few let's play videos for the game online, but this particular Japanese youtuber covers three of the possible routes on their channel, including one for Mayumi and one for Rei. As far as I can tell, this video is an 'I didn't aim for anything specifically' type playthrough and seems more Asuka-centric, although as it doesn't feature the insert song, I'm guessing it's not the best one for her (apparently that's quite hard to get).
WMD
Guild Member
I'll get a proper timestamp this evening, but it's the shot of Asuka lying on her bed. I'm pretty sure it happens after the eva has gone crazy.
She's even voiced by Megumi Hayashibara, Rei's Japanese VA.
I guess, trying to play devil's advocate for Shinji, he doesn't remember his mother's face, as we learn from today's simulwatch episode.
Here's a link to the Evageeks page about the game, with a description and some screenshots:
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion:_Second_Impression
The external links at the bottom led me to the Japanese Wikipedia page on the game, and the Google-translated version is absolute gold! Here are some choice excerpts:
(Under the heading "Character"...)
"Soryu, Asuka Langley:
At the beginning I suddenly preach to Shinji for a long time, and I take a tough attitude at school, and I am quite loud. However, when she takes an attitude that she likes, she is showing a pretend that she is putting a special eye on the other hand, and it is stressed that Tsundere parts come to help in battle."
"Mayumi Yamagishi:
Game original character. He wears long-distance glasses with black-haired straight long hair.
. . .
The character is intentionally similar to Shinji, and Kuroko and hairstyles of the mouth are modeled after Junko Iwao, the voice actor of Hikari Doki, at that time."
("Hikari Doki" is this page's mistranslation of Hikari Horaki, but it gets even better!)
"Ibaraki Misato:
She is also on a watch-waiting mission at NERV headquarters, but at the beginning she sees a Zubra side of the beer from home in the morning."
"Ritsuko Akagi:
. . .
Analysis in battle is the main role, but in the conversation scene with Shinji, smoke is wrapped in an abstract expression for Shinji asking questions to the apostles and Eva."
(Some more name mistranslations now...)
"Green leaf Shigeru:
I am in charge of the operator in the battle, but depending on the scenario, I will be asked by Misato to teach the band's electric guitar."
(↑It translated Aoba instead of leaving it as a name!
)
"Ryoji Kamochi:
At the beginning there is a conversation with Genji, and even in the main story Misato gives a little in the elevator and does something in the NERV headquarters. The "irregular" he speaks implies the apostle that appears this time."
"Genu Gendou:
Shinji's father. In addition to the conversation with Kamochi at the beginning, there is also a scene where Shinji comes to a bowl with an elevator, and it gets mixed up."
(Aaaand finally, under the heading "Multi-scenario"...)
"Earth Defense band edited by:
. . .
At the ending, the cultural announcement session is concluded, and depending on the development, Asuka and Shinji's whistles are depicted again and again as usual."
"Soryu, Asuka Langley:
At the beginning I suddenly preach to Shinji for a long time, and I take a tough attitude at school, and I am quite loud. However, when she takes an attitude that she likes, she is showing a pretend that she is putting a special eye on the other hand, and it is stressed that Tsundere parts come to help in battle."
"Mayumi Yamagishi:
Game original character. He wears long-distance glasses with black-haired straight long hair.
. . .
The character is intentionally similar to Shinji, and Kuroko and hairstyles of the mouth are modeled after Junko Iwao, the voice actor of Hikari Doki, at that time."
("Hikari Doki" is this page's mistranslation of Hikari Horaki, but it gets even better!)
"Ibaraki Misato:
She is also on a watch-waiting mission at NERV headquarters, but at the beginning she sees a Zubra side of the beer from home in the morning."
"Ritsuko Akagi:
. . .
Analysis in battle is the main role, but in the conversation scene with Shinji, smoke is wrapped in an abstract expression for Shinji asking questions to the apostles and Eva."
(Some more name mistranslations now...)
"Green leaf Shigeru:
I am in charge of the operator in the battle, but depending on the scenario, I will be asked by Misato to teach the band's electric guitar."
(↑It translated Aoba instead of leaving it as a name!
)"Ryoji Kamochi:
At the beginning there is a conversation with Genji, and even in the main story Misato gives a little in the elevator and does something in the NERV headquarters. The "irregular" he speaks implies the apostle that appears this time."
"Genu Gendou:
Shinji's father. In addition to the conversation with Kamochi at the beginning, there is also a scene where Shinji comes to a bowl with an elevator, and it gets mixed up."
(Aaaand finally, under the heading "Multi-scenario"...)
"Earth Defense band edited by:
. . .
At the ending, the cultural announcement session is concluded, and depending on the development, Asuka and Shinji's whistles are depicted again and again as usual."
@Professor Irony: It can't help but remind me of your "bot-created" Eva episodes, Prof!
One thing I forgot to mention with ep14 was Asuka's line to Shinji about whether he wants to 'crawl back into the womb'. Yikes.
That was an interesting read! As much as 'Angel' is clearly the intended translation for 使徒, the fact that google transmogrifies it to 'apostle' makes me wonder if that might have been a more intriguing choice. Although I do now want a Misato-themed spinoff entitled Zubra: Side of the Beer.
Episode 15
With the jump-cut flashes through someone else's wedding as Misato, Ritsuko and Kaji look on in alcohol-addled, self-reflective boredom, I found this one quite melancholy. It makes me wonder what the intended viewing audience for the show must have actually been. Presumably the target age-range must have been broad; I feel plenty of other teen-centric series would have followed Asuka on her disasterous date (the obvious joke being if her suitor was a dead-ringer for Kaji, but bored her anyway), but here we instead see the adults experiencing a very mundane yet poignant adult dilemma.
I dare say it's hardly unique to Japan and I don't know how prevalent it still is now, but you would certainly get the impression from anime that the Japanese have a real obsession with youth and effectively deciding the rest of your life within the short span of a few years, be it in terms of your career, or getting married and forming a family unit. In a way it's surprising that this would still be the case by 1995, given that the Japanese had already long enjoyed one of the highest life-expectancy rates in the world, but I suppose it's just an indicator of the 'adults work til you drop for the greater good' attitude that seems so prevalent in their society. What interests me about finding this scene here is whether Evangelion is saying anything about it; is this some arch comment about how little the mentality in future Japan has changed, or merely an indicator of what things were like at the time?
In universe, it's not beyond possibility that the life-expectancy rate has dropped dramatically following the second impact, and there genuinely is a rush to make the most of your life as fast as possible, but again, I feel like if they wanted to make a comment about that, they'd have done so more directly. Perhaps if the show were made today, we'd get mention of the government trying desperately to convince people to have more children...
Even beyond that, there's a lot to unpack here. Ritsuko and Misato seem well aware of Kaji's hidden agenda at NERV, to the point of warning him that he's in danger, although Kaji's line that 'Gendo is using him' hints at yet another layer beyond that. Asuka finally seems to realise that Kaji will only ever see her as a kid too, something I feel maybe comes across more in the Japanese - Asuka's Japanese VA has a much more youthful sounding voice than her English equivalents. We also find out that Shinji is a cellist, even if he seems typically ambivalent about it.
That was an interesting read! As much as 'Angel' is clearly the intended translation for 使徒, the fact that google transmogrifies it to 'apostle' makes me wonder if that might have been a more intriguing choice. Although I do now want a Misato-themed spinoff entitled Zubra: Side of the Beer.
Episode 15
With the jump-cut flashes through someone else's wedding as Misato, Ritsuko and Kaji look on in alcohol-addled, self-reflective boredom, I found this one quite melancholy. It makes me wonder what the intended viewing audience for the show must have actually been. Presumably the target age-range must have been broad; I feel plenty of other teen-centric series would have followed Asuka on her disasterous date (the obvious joke being if her suitor was a dead-ringer for Kaji, but bored her anyway), but here we instead see the adults experiencing a very mundane yet poignant adult dilemma.
I dare say it's hardly unique to Japan and I don't know how prevalent it still is now, but you would certainly get the impression from anime that the Japanese have a real obsession with youth and effectively deciding the rest of your life within the short span of a few years, be it in terms of your career, or getting married and forming a family unit. In a way it's surprising that this would still be the case by 1995, given that the Japanese had already long enjoyed one of the highest life-expectancy rates in the world, but I suppose it's just an indicator of the 'adults work til you drop for the greater good' attitude that seems so prevalent in their society. What interests me about finding this scene here is whether Evangelion is saying anything about it; is this some arch comment about how little the mentality in future Japan has changed, or merely an indicator of what things were like at the time?
In universe, it's not beyond possibility that the life-expectancy rate has dropped dramatically following the second impact, and there genuinely is a rush to make the most of your life as fast as possible, but again, I feel like if they wanted to make a comment about that, they'd have done so more directly. Perhaps if the show were made today, we'd get mention of the government trying desperately to convince people to have more children...
Even beyond that, there's a lot to unpack here. Ritsuko and Misato seem well aware of Kaji's hidden agenda at NERV, to the point of warning him that he's in danger, although Kaji's line that 'Gendo is using him' hints at yet another layer beyond that. Asuka finally seems to realise that Kaji will only ever see her as a kid too, something I feel maybe comes across more in the Japanese - Asuka's Japanese VA has a much more youthful sounding voice than her English equivalents. We also find out that Shinji is a cellist, even if he seems typically ambivalent about it.
Yeah, the actual literal translation of 使徒 (shito) is indeed "apostle". I guess this is one of the reasons there are twelve of them in Rebuild. (Spoiler tag, please, if anyone's going to correct me on that.
)But, at the same time, I think it was in episode 11 of our series here that Shinji brings up how the term shito refers to "God's messengers", so... a bit of a mix there.
@Professor Irony: Your thoughts on episode 15 were fascinating to read, and definitely food for thought. I'm gonna end up pondering a lot of that now, especially how the content relates to intended target audience(s). I also wonder what Anno's mindset on relationships was at the time.
And lastly for now:
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Episode 15
Man survives by forgetting his memories, but there are some things that a man should never forget. Yui taught me about the irreplaceable things. I come here to confirm that.
There's some good philosophical quotes in this episode, from Gendo, from Ritsuko, from Kaji, too — and even Asuka.
After the scenes of Misato and Kaji's off-duty lives that form the backbone of this episode, a shocking secret is revealed by the latter to the former — and to the viewer. Deep below NERV HQ lies... "Adam", the First Angel??!
Man survives by forgetting his memories, but there are some things that a man should never forget. Yui taught me about the irreplaceable things. I come here to confirm that.
There's some good philosophical quotes in this episode, from Gendo, from Ritsuko, from Kaji, too — and even Asuka.
After the scenes of Misato and Kaji's off-duty lives that form the backbone of this episode, a shocking secret is revealed by the latter to the former — and to the viewer. Deep below NERV HQ lies... "Adam", the First Angel??!
WMD
Guild Member
Episode 15
Top episode today. I really enjoy these slower episodes where emotions get a bit of space to breathe. The comparison of the kids just living their lives and kissing for fun/out of boredom and the adults feeling a genuine desperation at a broken world they no longer understand and kissing for reassurance was very well done. It also acts as an interesting comparison to the last kissing episode which has the same pairings. Kaji last time forced the kiss out of selfishness but this time out of compassion to Misatos fears. Shinji last time couldn't kiss Asuka out of nerves and this time she she makes him confront those nerves and be kissed.
Its very apparent all 4 of them want greater bonds and stronger relationships with others but struggle to voice or act on it in a healthy way. Kaji acts smug, Misato drinks, Asuka lashes out and Shinji burys himself in self doubt.
The graveyard scene was really well done too. Gendo replying with "Indeed" to shinji saying how happy being their together made him seemed both kind and cruel at the same time. It's nice he said something but that's it?!
The visuals in today's episode were also excellent. The rotor blades of the helicopter at the start of the ep were so simply done but very effective. The shot looking up at kaji in the doorway from the informant/contact way really cool. The flash images while Shinji was lying in bed thinking were great. Even the silhouette shot of misato vomiting was remarkably artistic!
Top episode today. I really enjoy these slower episodes where emotions get a bit of space to breathe. The comparison of the kids just living their lives and kissing for fun/out of boredom and the adults feeling a genuine desperation at a broken world they no longer understand and kissing for reassurance was very well done. It also acts as an interesting comparison to the last kissing episode which has the same pairings. Kaji last time forced the kiss out of selfishness but this time out of compassion to Misatos fears. Shinji last time couldn't kiss Asuka out of nerves and this time she she makes him confront those nerves and be kissed.
Its very apparent all 4 of them want greater bonds and stronger relationships with others but struggle to voice or act on it in a healthy way. Kaji acts smug, Misato drinks, Asuka lashes out and Shinji burys himself in self doubt.
The graveyard scene was really well done too. Gendo replying with "Indeed" to shinji saying how happy being their together made him seemed both kind and cruel at the same time. It's nice he said something but that's it?!
The visuals in today's episode were also excellent. The rotor blades of the helicopter at the start of the ep were so simply done but very effective. The shot looking up at kaji in the doorway from the informant/contact way really cool. The flash images while Shinji was lying in bed thinking were great. Even the silhouette shot of misato vomiting was remarkably artistic!
WMD
Guild Member
The Asuka line from ep14 is in the part from 20.40 to 20.50 in the ADV dub its the last line of her thoughts.
WMD
Guild Member
I think I've only seen the series once tbh. Possibly twice. But it's been at least a decade since I last watched it either way. I had shinji as being really annoying in my mind which has put me off revisiting it and I havent been annoyed by him once so far I this rewatch.Superb post too, dude. I'm really enjoying reading your thoughts every day, and I look forward to seeing a notification in my alerts for one of your posts here.
How many times do you reckon you've seen Eva, and how long ago was the previous time? You're really well tuned in to it.
I've seen some of the films a few times as I'd rewatch them when the next one was out.
The first 6 episodes felt very familiar but since then theres been episode that have almost felt like watching for the first time. Today's was like that tbh the wedding and bar scene stuff was like watching it new. The graveyard and Adam reveal was familiar though.
This whole simulwatch has been great fun though. Reading everyone's thoughts has been great and has made me try and be more clinical in the way I watch it. I've also been watching a lot of cinema video essayists on YouTube which have made me more aware of this stuff.
I reccomend the channels JustWrite, Captian Midnight, and Lessons from the Screenplay. They're all really interesting and take their time over the ideas they discuss.
Yeah, meant to say I'd managed to find it earlier on today. Interestingly, we get another two entirely different readings. In the dub, it's "The First Children, who is she?", whereas the sub track seems to be much closer to the literal reading Neil suggested, with "The First - what kind of girl is she?" Surprisingly, I've kind of come around to the Netflix dub. Once you get over the dramatically different casting for Shinji, it's really very good, even if the translation can be over-literal.
I'd actually forgotten to mention it until WMD brought it up, but one of my favourite scenes in Secret of Blue Water involves the crew of the Nautilus visiting a similarly haunting graveyard to pay their respects to their fallen crewmates. I'll need to dig out my DVDs and see if the graveyard scene here might have been a nod back to that.
WMD
Guild Member
Interesting. They both seem to focus on Rei as a person. Adding mystery but still very much hiding the truth about Rei. Pretty much confirms the original dub was jumping the gun a bit.
Though I saw a tweet the other day from one of the original writers about how shes spent 20 yrs with people having a go at her for taking liberties with the dub script and now everyone is up in arms over the new one being too literal!
When living arrangements allow I will watch the new one though. Sounds like overall it's an improvement even if you have to put up with children where the word child should be.
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Mr L
Great Teacher
Intriguing or not, if it were part of the Netflix version, it would instantly be hated.