Get in the Simulwatch - Neon Genesis Evangelion [current ep - 26]

ayase

State Alchemist
I'm enjoying reading everyone's thoughts even if I'm not really contributing very much (I'd like more posts but I'm not a big liker, ironically the more quality posts in a thread the less likely I become to like them, because I end up liking every post and then I just look like I'm being loose with my likes and their value goes down :p). Typically, today Netflix decided to offer me another free trial, I've clearly been unsubscribed long enough for them to start begging for my money again. Shame it wasn't a couple of weeks earlier. I probably will give Eva another watch since I know I've forgotten a lot and would like to see it in something approximating HD, but I'll probably be too late to join episode specific discussion (unless I watch it non-stop overnight... Tempting).

I also wonder what Anno's mindset on relationships was at the time. πŸ€”
You probably don't have to look much further than when the show references the Hedgehog's Dilemma. I don't know (or can't remember) if Anno was familiar with the work of Gregory Bateson or R.D. Laing, but his exploration of people and their relationships with one another by way of Jung and Freud seems to have led Eva to make some similar observations; That people and their behaviours are by and large a product of their early relationships and environments and that ultimately, there are understandable reasons for people's mental states that need to be faced and addressed - Essentially, they f*ck you up, your mum and dad*, something which is very explicitly true of all of Eva's "Children" (and probably most everyone else in the show - Heaven only knows what Gendo's parents were like). It's interesting Rei was mentioned as schizophrenic character earlier - Bateson theorized that schizophrenia originated from double binds:

"the essence of a double bind is two conflicting demands, each on a different logical level, neither of which can be ignored or escaped. This leaves the subject torn both ways, so that whichever demand they try to meet, the other demand cannot be met. "I must do it, but I can't do it" is a typical description of the double-bind experience."

Which sounds a lot like the position Gendo has put Shinji in regarding piloting the Eva, doesn't it?
Apologies for the infodump which may have veered slightly off-topic, but this is the stuff I find so interesting about Eva.

*Edit, with potential Episode 22 spoilers: I feel like Asuka's early dislike of Rei is tied to her mother's apparent rejection and replacement of her with a doll - A silent and compliant child surrogate, which are of course things Asuka takes great pride in being anything but, but Rei would appear to any outside observer to embody (and in fact to Gendo that's pretty much exactly what she is, at least in the beginning). Seeing her mother idolise something so different from her and then seeing that again in Rei (and potentially in Rei and Gendo's relationship as well, it may be that she sees a parallel between her and Shinji's situations because of that) was bound to trigger some unpleasant memories.
 
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WMD

Student Council President
Episode 16

Given how dark and contemplative this episode gets we start at the polar opposite with a funny intro as a bit of a mirror to when Shinji ran out of the bathroom naked. Asuka berating Shinji for having no backbone and always apologising in his normal life serves as a good start for this as we soon see him showing confidence in the Eva.

The life he didn't want is now the one hes starting to feel comfortable in. It is, after all, the only thing his father has praised him for. Soon though hes cocky and arrogant and pride comes before a fall. The speed at which he reverts back to panic the moment he loses control is pretty astonishing.

The art and framing as he talks with himself as he loses life support is Eva at it's best. The discussion of how we see ourselves and how we present different versions of ourselves to those around us is really interesting. Are those versions real or not? Hes spent so much time shutting out the memory of his mother but hes so desperate for that care. That's why he latches onto Misatos praise so desperately.

The Eva freeing itself/ violent birth scene is pretty horrifying, no wonder Ritsuko is so unnerved by it and Asuka shows actual fear!

I really like how the end of the episode shows the bond the kids have even if they struggle to understand each other. Rei by Shinjis bed and Asuka outside is so right for them.

The Misato argument scene is so well done with half the frame almost always in black. Shes the only adult who's starting to focus on the kids (and show genuine care for them) rather than the angels and she feels alone in a dark world.
 

Professor Irony

Railgun
AUKN Staff
Episode 16

From this point on, the introspective elements of the show come far more to the fore - I think this is the first time we've seen the infamous oscilloscope-style wavy lines to represent someone talking during an inner monologue - but the action in this one is still pretty cool. I particularly like Unit 2 using the axe and the prog knife as improvised climbing equipment, as Asuka tries to avoid the angel's shadow.

ep16.jpg

Unit 1's pistol being basically a giant Desert Eagle also kind of made me laugh; I think you could read that as a roundabout nod to the scaled up revolvers in Patlabor.

WMD already covered this one pretty well - it hadn't occurred to me until now that maybe Shinji genuinely is starting to see Misato as a mother figure, it's certainly her name he calls the most when he's being consumed by the angel. It also struck me that Rei seems a bit more animated than usual this time too. It's particularly surprising to see her confronting Asuka, presumably blaming Shinji's reckless behaviour on her constantly antagonising him for being timid.

Ritsuko's reaction to the incident was quite interesting too. It seemed to me as though she was trying to think how Gendo would handle the situation ('this would happen while Commander Ikari is away!'), perhaps showing where her first loyalties lie, but can only keep this up for so long in the face of such grave circumstances.
 
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D1tchd1gger

Railgun
Episodes 13-16
Shifting from the previous format to something more philosophical and psychological. Only 2 Angels appear in the 4 episodes and neither are defeated with the usual fight scene.

Manga Time
Some of the events in this episode occur much later in the manga. I left off at chapter 33.
Chapter 69 deals with the making of the Major and Ritsuko's mother obsession with Gendo. She kills herself after a younger Rei matter-of-factly tells her that Gendo calls her a hag behind her back.
Gendo then begs Ritsuko to continue her mothers work at the funeral!
Chapter 76 deals with the hack, not from an Angel but from other Magi used by SEELE

Episode 14
The quote about Unit 01 smelling like Shinji appears in the last few chapters I talked about last time, but I don't think much of the rest is in the manga. I couldn't find anything with a quick flick through.
On a different note, Ritsuko seems convinced Unit 00 intended to attack her, rather than Rei - unsure what could be behind that one.
Not sure if this is a manga spoiler or revealed later in the show, but Shinji's mother died testing the first EVA which I assume was 00 and thus some part of her is part of 00. Maybe some sort of resentment there.

It is really interesting, because Eva is peppered with vague and oblique dialogue.

ADV's old subtitles also read "Just what is the First Child?"

Asuka's actual line in Japanese is: "Faasuto-tte, donna ko na no?"

It literally means "What kind of child is the First?"
What does the new dub use for that line?
Already been answered I see, but I think the new dub is better than the new sub. "Who is she?" can be taken in more ways than one compared to "What kind of girl is she?".
Again couldn't find this moment with a quick flick through.

Episode 15
Most of this again appears in the chapters I talked about last time, but either in a different location (Misato getting drunk and the Shinji/Asuka kiss) or a different order (Ryoji shows Misato (minus Shinji) ADAM after Rei has put the spear in the show compared to the other way around in the manga and Gendo leaves the graveyard to goto Antarctica in the manga to get the spear. One thing of note is that in the manga Gendo tells Shinji that he's not an infant and that he should stand on his own 2 feet, that Shinji later says it was the first and probably the last time his father will give him some advice which is absent in the show.

Episode 16
The Angel doesn't appear, but Shinji does get stuck in the EVA for a month at some point and has all sorts of visions. Although looking at the synopsis for later episodes seems to be episode 20, so will have to wait and see if those parts are the same.
 
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Neil.T

Railgun
Bateson theorized that schizophrenia originated from double binds
That's... an interesting idea. 🀨
Any idea how well studied that theory is?

*Edit, with potential Episode 22 spoilers: I feel like Asuka's early dislike of Rei is tied to her mother's apparent rejection and replacement of her with a doll
That's a very interesting read on that, and something I'd never considered. I'd always just felt Asuka was irritated by Rei's passiveness due to a simple personality clash, but I never thought to dig for any kind of deep-rooted reason. More food for thought.

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I've been so caught up with the Evangelion 3.0+1.0 preview today that I've fallen behind with this thread! So...

Episode 16

This operation's priority is to recover the Eva itself. That the body may be damaged or destroyed has no bearing. The pilot's life is not our concern.

And so Ritsuko and Misato come to blows, physically.

Megumi Ogata's voice performance as Shinji as he's trapped inside the Eva with no sign of help is actually terrifying. It's like she's channeling the horror of something like being buried alive. It leads to the series' first foray into the self, an internal dialogue of conflicting perceptions inside the racing mind of Shinji Ikari.

That scene of a monstrous-looking Unit-01 tearing itself free β€” from the inside of the Angel's shadow no less β€” is an eerie and even chilling sight. Just what are the Evas, really?
 
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Neil.T

Railgun
Episode 17

This is the Dummy Plug prototype. Rei's personal data has been loaded into it, but it's not really possible to digitise a human mind and soul. A fake: that's all it is. It copies the pilot's thinking process. In the end, it's only a machine.

Wow, there's a lot to digest in this episode. The Dummy Plug system, the sudden obliteration of Unit-04 and a NERV branch in the US in a start-up malfunction, an "S2 engine", Unit-03's transference to Japan, the truth behind the so-called Marduk Institute, and... the Fourth Child is selected...
 

Professor Irony

Railgun
AUKN Staff
Episode 17

A very dark and brooding episode, despite the lack of an angel attack. Some heavy foreshadowing with the debate on whether the angels are sentient and may be trying to interact with or understand human beings. Misato is really on the offensive here, leaning on Ritsuko, then Kaji in a bid to pin down what NERV are keeping from her. We also get to see a more contemplative side of Kaji, although it's funny how even Shinji is openly calling him a rat now.

What has crossed my mind a few times while watching the show this time around though is, what do other countries make of the Angel attacks? The Jet Alone programme showed that other agencies may have a desire to involve themselves in combatting the Angels, but despite this episode mentioning a branch of NERV in the US and the involvement of the UN earlier on, it seems a little odd how incredibly focused the series is on the area around Tokyo-3. We were well into the era of 24 hour news channels with their rolling, worldwide reports by 1995 - at the very least, it would have been interesting to see the world's media trying to report on the attacks, if not major foreign powers attempting to render aid. I find it hard to imagine the US government in particular not rolling up in some obvious shape or form.
 

Neil.T

Railgun
What has crossed my mind a few times while watching the show this time around though is, what do other countries make of the Angel attacks?
I've pondered this myself before while watching Eva. The threat is to all of humankind, yet the series is mostly Japan-centric. I guess that the show is already more than complicated enough that there's just not the room to explore any further outside its home country's borders. Rebuild, on the other hand, judging by the opening 10 minutes of 3.0+1.0, is very much broadening its scope as it approaches the finish. Magnifique. πŸ˜‰

Another thing that crosses my mind while watching Eva is that if only there wasn't a city built slap-bang above NERV HQ, where the Angels are trying to reach, there would be a lot less collateral damage and a lot more money to spend on running and maintaining the Evas! But then the stakes wouldn't be nearly high enough to give us a giant-robot action show. πŸ˜›

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Episode 18

No, you're wrong. You only believe that you've learned. The fact is that people don't really understand themselves, much less each other. Understanding one hundred percent of anything is impossible. That's why we spend so much time trying to understand our own motivations and those of others. That's what makes life so interesting.

Oh, the horror... 😬
Poor Toji. And Shinji.

You can argue that if Shinji had followed his instructions and tackled the Angel/Eva himself, he could've done it in a way that wouldn't have destroyed the entry plug.

But... it's too late now. And as for the Dummy System's... thorough job in destroying the target... just remember that it's supposedly using Rei's thought processes. 😬
Would Rei have done the same thing, though? I seriously doubt it. Especially not if Shinji begged her to stop.

After all, as Toji had pointed out to Rei shortly before, she cares. Her way of thinking and of seeing things has already moved beyond where they were when they were copied for use with the Dummy System.
 

WMD

Student Council President
Episode 17

Misato questioned in darkness was a great way to intro the episode. So foreboding, more questions obscuring the truth!

I enjoyed the comedic moment of Shinji and Asuka bickering but the moment they are 'under attack' they are in perfect sync. They've really come a long way.

Suzuhara goes through quite a journey here. Seeing him go to visit his daughter was quite the reminder that no one is safe while these Angel attacks happen. And the final shot of him shooting the basketball in complete silence until the ball hits the backboard was great. He has so much to think about and it's like he cant even begin to process it!

I also noticed that the big old looking religious style diagram that you see in the intro credits is the ceiling decoration in Gendos office. Interesting that he must spend so much time looking up at that and is maybe a focus for his determination and motivation?

Seeing Rei emoting and blushing was quite the moment too!
 
Can't believe it took someone so long to notice the pattern of angel attacks, even the one that destroyed unit 4 ended up moving straight towards Tokyo 3.
The only one that didn't seem to attack NERV was the one that attacked the navy, but that was after unit 2, which was still being transported to NERV and the same type as 00 and 01.
The very reason for the attacks that everyone should know by now is something only NERV has
 
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WMD

Student Council President
Episode 18

Well this is a weird episode. Why does everyone freak out so much over telling Shinji who the fourth child is? I dont really get why him knowing its Toji would be so bad. And as @Neil.T pointed out I'm pretty sure they could've come up with a plan to save Toji and destroy the Eva. Gendos a smart guy, I feel he maybe saw an opportunity to test the dummy plug and pushed Shinji in a way he'd seize up. If Shinji follows his orders it's a win and a more ruthless pilot if he doesnt you test your crazy autonomous machine.

The Kaji-Shinji chat was really well done to. It was good to see Kaji seemingly being honest even if he can only do that in the dark and facing away from the person hes talking to.

Asukas expression when Hikari is explaining why she likes Toji is brilliant!
 

Professor Irony

Railgun
AUKN Staff
Episode 18

Oh boy. I don't think it's a huge spoiler for anyone who hasn't already seen the show to say that, with the goofy faces in the early part of the episode, this (unless you count a certain scene towards the very end) is the last time Evangelion manages anything resembling mirth. Strap in folks, it's about to get a whole lot bleaker.

There's some potent imagery sprinkled throughout this one (an Eva flying through the skies on the cross! subtle), but the shot that sticks with me most is Unit 3 slowly marching out of the blood red sun.

9344

Having had to look up a screengrab on google images, I get the impression that this shot appears with far more detail in Rebuild, but there's an eeriness in its simplicity here. It's unlikely to be what Anno had in mind, but it makes me think of nothing so much as the end of The Wicker Man.

Gonna go out on a limb here, but I actually find the experience of not telling someone you assume to be fragile something important until it's too late, because you don't know how they'll react, entirely relatable. That said, I suppose it is a bit of a contrivance - on several occasions, it seems as though someone is about to tell Shinji, but it just never happens.

It also doesn't seem impossible to imagine a scenario where Gendo could have acted to save Toji and prevent Shinji's trauma, but if anything, I think the fact that he doesn't just underscores how far gone he is by now. The Eva project has nearly run its course; what need does he have for empathy?

On a lighter note, I went back to look at Nadia to see if there was any similarity with the graveside scene in Eva. There's nothing directly referencing it, but it did strike me that Atlantis, an impossibly vast undersea cavern with its own atmosphere, linked to the world above by a towering vertical shaft, does rather predict the design for the geofront.

IMG_0463.png

Also a final thought; does Shinji's teacher ever talk about anything besides the second impact?
 

Neil.T

Railgun
Atlantis, an impossibly vast undersea cavern with its own atmosphere, linked to the world above by a towering vertical shaft, does rather predict the design for the geofront.
Wait until you see what that image resembles in 3.33. πŸ˜‰

On a related note, would anyone be interested in a (repeat) Nadia simulwatch at some point after we finish Eva? I haven't seen the series yet.

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Episode 19

"So you're running away again? You disappoint me. I assume that we'll never meet again."

"Yes. That's my intent."


Oh my god, this whole episode packs a punch. 😱

It's one devastating development after another. This is honestly one of the single best episodes of anime you'll ever see.

In fact, it's so outstanding that I'm honestly stuck for where to even begin.

This was the show's first mention of Third Impact, wasn't it?
 
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