General Politics Thread

ayase said:
I can't really disagree with any of that. Except perhaps this:

I'm not really sure anybody has a moral obligation to do anything any more. Perhaps I've just become that cynical, but in a land ruled over by psychopaths and populated mostly with idiots, a horrifying hybrid of tyranny of the majority and oligarchy (something I think your examples would tend to agree with, if not yourself personally) I rather feel like ripping up the social contract altogether.
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It's a very personal thing, I guess. I still feel that obligation in my heart, even if nobody is actually compelling me to feel that way and it's a wholly unrewarding way to live. A certain family member of mine recently posted something unfortunate on a certain social media site which I felt was morally repugnant. I mentioned it to my brother; he counselled ignoring it. I talked to my father, he made the same call. And then I found myself wading into the thick of an unwinnable battle against that person's deep-seated prejudices anyway, because I am physically incapable of keeping my mouth shut when something feels wrong. And to my surprise, after three days of debate I managed to persuade them not to share uninformed opinions on that topic again! It makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. That person will still vote for the Conservatives when the time comes. But at least there's one less voice out there making hateful posts about that particular topic now, and the burning indignation inside me is calmer.

I don't have a way to switch off my sense of moral obligation. It's the same reason I always attempt to engage with trolls on this site before dragging them off for punishment. I know I look like an idiot a lot of the time but I can deal with that if there's even a tiny chance of a better outcome. They say that we're supposed to get more comfortable with supporting the status quo as we age but I feel as though my life has had the opposite trajectory thus far. I still want to believe that we can be better.

You may write yourself off as cynical, ayase, but even cynicism, when tempered with intelligence and a genuine interest in respectful discussion, can have a positive effect. I feel your vent posts have encouraged me to educate myself more on some of the highly specific issues we've debated in the past and given me some faith that other people out there aren't slavishly signed up to the official narrative, even if the delivery is different and we vehemently disagree at times. So I'm always grateful to you for speaking your mind.

R
 
ayase said:
Apologies for the late response but it looks like controversy's in today, so let's go.



They can also afford to take breaks from work and immediately receive whatever therapy they like. As someone with experience with this country's sorry excuse for mental health services for average people who can't afford to pay to receive it privately, you'll have to excuse me if I don't shed a tear for those who can just stroll into The Priory.



Be prepared for a bit of a ramble here, since I think this issue goes to the heart of a major problem I have with the current political (and particularly journalistic) climate and its promotion of middle-class social causes célèbre over economics. You see it all the time now, particularly since identity politics caused the implosion of Occupy Wall Street (and was and still is being used by Starmer's Axis Neo Labour to keep hammering the stake into Jeremy Corbyn to make sure he stays down this time) but those convenient coincidences aside, political debate is constantly being shifted away from economic inequality onto issues much further up the pyramid on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. At the bottom is the freedom from want, of being able to house, feed and keep yourself warm without having to rely on charity or live in fear of rent day or the debt collector. That is where the attention and efforts anyone who genuinely believes in equality should be concentrated until we don't have anyone living on the streets and the appalling emergence not only of food banks but of "warm spaces" now where elderly people who can't afford to put the heating on have to go in order to not freeze to death in their own homes. No amount of love is going to fix that (and people working for charity is not the answer, because that's only keeping them poor and more likely to need charity themselves - imho nobody should be working for nothing) it requires investment.
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Kind of a different topic from Harry more on a personal level and how is using his position as a semi-powerful royal in 2023. I'm not really expecting any member of the royal family to initiate a sort of economic overhaul as they thankfully have been stripped of these powers.



In terms of migrant boats... Rui covered most of it, but I will add that this "problem" is massively overstated and deliberaly misconstrued by the media and the government. This has been the case for decades now and it's the age-old classic used in countries throughout history.

Look at statistics and see. Right now there is obsession with small boats from France. A tiny portion of overall illegal immigration. This is because the government can hide behind the guise they are targetting them because they actually care about the safety of people in the boats. They do not care in the slightest obviously.

There is also the added bonus that France can be blamed. What proper Englishman would ever decline such an opportunity?

The whole time everybody is fussing and fighting over a couple of boats. Nobody talks about the real issues. Always the tactic used. Maybe having to process lots of migrants is not a problem if we actually had sufficient housing being built in this country. But it is not, and this affects evrybody regardless of migrant status, race, age etc. but yes of course it's not a problem for the rich!
 
@ayase, thankyou for clarifying your intended meaning, I am sorry I didn't give any acknowledgement of your response sooner. I would feedback to you that that's not how you came across at the time (at least to me), but I believe you didn't intend to sound so callous :)

@Rui I wanted to clarify that I'm pro-immigration and believe everyone deserves humane treatment, in case anything I said made you or anyone else here doubt that. (I know you haven't commented on what I said, I just was not sure how I'd come across so am clarifying a bit). I was making the point that it's particularly concerning that people fleeing war and persecution are being treated this way, but I don't wish to give the impression that I have an unwelcoming attitude to immigrants who are not classed as refugees :)
 
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RadFemHedonist said:
@Rui I wanted to clarify that I'm pro-immigration and believe everyone deserves humane treatment, in case anything I said made you or anyone else here doubt that. (I know you haven't commented on what I said, I just was not sure how I'd come across so am clarifying a bit). I was making the point that it's particularly concerning that people fleeing war and persecution are being treated this way, but I don't wish to give the impression that I have an unwelcoming attitude to immigrants who are not classed as refugees :)
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I think it was clear that you were on the side of compassion :)

R
 
You haven’t lived in modern day Britain until you’ve had an elderly tramp virtually in tears tell you to the soundtrack of “Driving Home for Christmas” how he’s scared the police will take his tent away and I quote: “They can send me down south, I’ll live on that barge, it’d be better than what I’ve got now”. Thanks for everything Suella, and everyone else who’s been in government since 1979 and contributed to creating a society in which the poorest and most vulnerable people hold on to the hope that one day, they might rise to the heights of living in a contaminated prison.

I bought him a bottle of off-brand White Lightning because he was straight-up about the fact that was what he wanted. Trying to survive in this country makes me want to drink myself to death, I can only imagine how much greater that feeling is for him.
 
ayase said:
You haven’t lived in modern day Britain until you’ve had an elderly tramp virtually in tears tell you to the soundtrack of “Driving Home for Christmas” how he’s scared the police will take his tent away and I quote: “They can send me down south, I’ll live on that barge, it’d be better than what I’ve got now”. Thanks for everything Suella, and everyone else who’s been in government since 1979 and contributed to creating a society in which the poorest and most vulnerable people hold on to the hope that one day, they might rise to the heights of living in a contaminated prison.

I bought him a bottle of off-brand White Lightning because he was straight-up about the fact that was what he wanted. Trying to survive in this country makes me want to drink myself to death, I can only imagine how much greater that feeling is for him.
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That poor guy. At least you gave enough of a wotsit to listen to him and buy him something he wanted... honestly the way things are now is heartbreaking and I wish I knew what to do to make it better :(
 
RadFemHedonist said:
I wish I knew what to do to make it better
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I have gradually and unfortunately come to the conclusion that the answer is nothing. The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must. No amount of protests, petitions or voting can change the entrenched system because that’s the way it is set up, and it is functioning as intended to transfer ever more wealth and power into the hands of the already wealthy and powerful. They can and will do whatever they like, no-one who wants to change the system will ever be allowed anywhere near power and even if they do somehow slip through, the system itself will destroy them.
 
ayase said:
I have gradually and unfortunately come to the conclusion that the answer is nothing. The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must. No amount of protests, petitions or voting can change the entrenched system because that’s the way it is set up, and it is functioning as intended to transfer ever more wealth and power into the hands of the already wealthy and powerful. They can and will do whatever they like, no-one who wants to change the system will ever be allowed anywhere near power and even if they do somehow slip through, the system itself will destroy them.
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I think sadly you're probably right... I mean that's not gonna stop me from giving some of my extra spending money to charity and whatnot this year but I get what you mean it's a drop in the ocean and the people at the top don't actually want things to change :(

Tbh at this point all I really want for Xmas is for everyone to have a good time and have food and shelter and healthcare and stuff... not gonna happen though is it? :(
 
Uk has been in decline for the last 8 years or so and for me is just a depressing hell hole
I hate everything about it here
If it was just me,i would up and leave with the mrs
And set up in philippines personally
But
She wants to stay here some more years and work and earn more here so we can buy a house over there

Its sad to say this but i only want one thing i told the mrs and thats not to die in the uk, sad but true, i hate it here that much
 
Well that was a general election budget and a half. Keeping the old triple lock! If you refuse to work, we'll take away your benefits, and we'll decide if you're able to work or not... and we'll forget that our mishandling of the pandemic left over a million with Long Covid, who'll probably never be able to work again.

Ooh look, Class 2 National Insurance Contributions Squirrel
 
Just Passing Through said:
Well that was a general election budget and a half. Keeping the old triple lock! If you refuse to work, we'll take away your benefits, and we'll decide if you're able to work or not... and we'll forget that our mishandling of the pandemic left over a million with Long Covid, who'll probably never be able to work again.

Ooh look, Class 2 National Insurance Contributions Squirrel
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What do expect with attitutes with the corrupt people in charge?
Boris johnson=let the bodies pile high.
Rishy dishy richy= just let people die
 
Just Passing Through said:
Well that was a general election budget and a half. Keeping the old triple lock! If you refuse to work, we'll take away your benefits, and we'll decide if you're able to work or not... and we'll forget that our mishandling of the pandemic left over a million with Long Covid, who'll probably never be able to work again.
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After today, I would strongly encourage every single person in the country to quit their jobs and put in a benefit claim, the sooner this whole rotten system collapses, the better.

It's not even fraudulent (certainly no more fraudulent than all the covid contracts), I think it's fair to say that everybody is suffering from depression and anxiety thanks to the actions of this government.
 
Wasn't that part of the world a whole lot more peaceful and stable when it was Mandatory Palestine, anyone miss us yet? I think that's what this conflict is missing honestly, a bigger bastard to threaten both sides. We were pretty good at that, maybe it's high time we did it again. Perhaps threaten to empty the silos of one of our nuclear submarines over the whole area unless they stop killing each other and start talking.
 
Seeing what is happening to the Palestinians unfolding before our eyes like this is honestly one of the most angering and heart breaking things I've experienced. The sense of helplessness and injustice is horrible. I cannot believe the US has allowed this to carry on so long unabated and actually has facilitated it (when the US does absolutely have the power and sway over Israel to pretty much bring this to an end immediately if they wished) now that Israel's genocidal intent is clear for the whole world to see. I don't know how much much moral credibility the western world really had left, but I do think that whatever was left of its mask of moral superiority has now completely slipped off and I don't think it'll be able to put it back on. The rank hypocrisy in the treatment of Ukraine compared to that of Palestine is just blatant and shameful. I cannot believe we're seeing a genocide and ethnic cleansing occurring in this day and age and our leaders are actively cheering it on. How Germany seems to think that supporting one genocide will atone for a previous one is just insane. And now we're even bombing Yemen too, a country whose famine our government has already played its part in, and we're dropping bombs on it too.
 
What absolute b*llocks are these generals talking about the need for conscription in a hypothetical war with Russia? It’s slightly concerning that people of high rank within the military seem to be completely overlooking the fact that in any hypothetical war with Russia, the UK gets wiped out by just a dozen of their 6000 nukes on the first day. No nuclear power is ever going to get into a land war with another, that’s what that whole “Cold War” thing was all about, though they don’t seem to remember. But you’d think these delusional and/or senile f*ckers should at least be able to remember that nuclear weapons exist, given that there was a blockbuster film recently about their invention.
 
ICJ's rulings in South Africa's case of genocide against Israel are surprisingly good and are surely historic in being one of the few times Israel hasn't got it's way. I don't hold any hope of Israel willingly complying to any of its orders, since that would effectively mean stopping the bombardment and blockade. But maybe there is now some genuine hope of the tide starting to turn. Massive respect to South Africa for being the ones to stand up for Palestinians like this and invest the resources in this case they have, not to mention risk the consequences they may face from Israel and its allies.
 
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