General Politics Thread

I keep seeing snippets of this new comedy drama (I’m guessing it’s by Armando Iannucci) in which a race-bent billionaire Tony Blair faces off against a frightening waxwork Margaret Thatcher in a dismal Victorian Britain where the wealthy business owners reap massive profits while the poor work themselves to death for ever decreasing wages. Looks like pretty hilariously over the top satire, I should give it a watch at some point.
 
"Somebody needs to stop me before I start freezing pensioners to death"

Energy bosses today warned the government that they need to stage an intervention in order to stop them from raising their prices.

"Sure, we could just not put our prices up. We're making massive profits already, but what they don't understand is that we can't help ourselves," said one energy CEO as he opened a fourth can of Knights Cider over breakfast, "If the opportunity is there we're going to take it, we need help" he sobbed into his kebab.

Another energy boss wondered where these price rises might lead.

"If the government had any kind of conscience at all they would try to prevent me from doing this," he stated, his hands shaking nervously as he lit his crack pipe, "But they don't care, they're prepared to let me take as much as I want regardless of the consequences. I don't even care who I hurt any more; old ladies, kids, they're all fair game as long as I can get some money out of them. I know I’m a terrible person but I just don’t know how to stop.”
 
Men when faced with male rapists: It's better to let 100 guilty men go free than to ruin the life of one innocent!

The same men regarding women who have abortions or even miscarriages: Let's arrest her using data we've unscrupulously harvested from a menstrual tracking app she was using! Prevent laws that mandate that hospitals perform abortions when the mother's life is in danger! Women who have sex outside marriage and/or without wanting to or even being able to safely birth and afford to parent children are guilty as sin, evil premeditated baby murderers and must be punished! Slash welfare programs that help single parents and their kids to have a decent standard of living! FORCE TEENAGE RAPE VICTIMS TO GIVE BIRTH!

Can you tell how lividly pissed off I am about the overturning of Roe VS. Wade? :mad:

"Somebody needs to stop me before I start freezing pensioners to death"

Energy bosses today warned the government that they need to stage an intervention in order to stop them from raising their prices.

"Sure, we could just not put our prices up. We're making massive profits already, but what they don't understand is that we can't help ourselves," said one energy CEO as he opened a fourth can of Knights Cider over breakfast, "If the opportunity is there we're going to take it, we need help" he sobbed into his kebab.

Another energy boss wondered where these price rises might lead.

"If the government had any kind of conscience at all they would try to prevent me from doing this," he stated, his hands shaking nervously as he lit his crack pipe, "But they don't care, they're prepared to let me take as much as I want regardless of the consequences. I don't even care who I hurt any more; old ladies, kids, they're all fair game as long as I can get some money out of them. I know I’m a terrible person but I just don’t know how to stop.”

Attempting to channel the spirit of Groucho Marx, he added "I'm actually quite morally disgusted by any society that wouldn't throw me in jail for this or at least put a complete stop to my dastardly schemes". Cue: "whaaat... have weeee... becoooome" from the Fightstar anti-climate disaster song Floods playing in the background
 
"Somebody needs to stop me before I start freezing pensioners to death"

Energy bosses today warned the government that they need to stage an intervention in order to stop them from raising their prices.

"Sure, we could just not put our prices up. We're making massive profits already, but what they don't understand is that we can't help ourselves," said one energy CEO as he opened a fourth can of Knights Cider over breakfast, "If the opportunity is there we're going to take it, we need help" he sobbed into his kebab.

Another energy boss wondered where these price rises might lead.

"If the government had any kind of conscience at all they would try to prevent me from doing this," he stated, his hands shaking nervously as he lit his crack pipe, "But they don't care, they're prepared to let me take as much as I want regardless of the consequences. I don't even care who I hurt any more; old ladies, kids, they're all fair game as long as I can get some money out of them. I know I’m a terrible person but I just don’t know how to stop.”
But don't worry I will kindly donate a small percentage of the massive profits we make to a fund where to access them you need to jump through many many hoops on an expensive phone line that most people don't bother.
 
But don't worry I will kindly donate a small percentage of the massive profits we make to a fund where to access them you need to jump through many many hoops on an expensive phone line that most people don't bother.

*and which they'll probably end up spending a significant proportion of the money they will get if they actually manage to qualify for the funds, on the phone call itself.
 
Men when faced with male rapists: It's better to let 100 guilty men go free than to ruin the life of one innocent!

The same men regarding women who have abortions or even miscarriages: Let's arrest her using data we've unscrupulously harvested from a menstrual tracking app she was using! Prevent laws that mandate that hospitals perform abortions when the mother's life is in danger! Women who have sex outside marriage and/or without wanting to or even being able to safely birth and afford to parent children are guilty as sin, evil premeditated baby murderers and must be punished! Slash welfare programs that help single parents and their kids to have a decent standard of living! FORCE TEENAGE RAPE VICTIMS TO GIVE BIRTH!

Can you tell how lividly pissed off I am about the overturning of Roe VS. Wade? :mad:



Attempting to channel the spirit of Groucho Marx, he added "I'm actually quite morally disgusted by any society that wouldn't throw me in jail for this or at least put a complete stop to my dastardly schemes". Cue: "whaaat... have weeee... becoooome" from the Fightstar anti-climate disaster song Floods playing in the background

It's obvious that women cannot be trusted with their own reproductive health. Control must be taken away from them and given to those with the intelligence and emotional strength to carry the burden of those decisions...

Therefore all males should be given reversible vasectomies at birth, and should they ever want to reproduce, they must apply to the government and pay a million dollars for reversal.

EDIT: Or put their faith in immaculate conceptions
 
Can you tell how lividly pissed off I am about the overturning of Roe VS. Wade?
Much as I enjoy my cheap seat to the freak-show (to paraphrase George Carlin) I try not to concern myself too much with what the Americans are doing. At least in the UK (and most of Europe) most social issues are no longer major political issues. There's some kind of irony there given how much the US likes to tout itself as the land of individual freedom and liberty. You can tell they were founded by religious extremists, both their left and right are incredibly inflexible and dogmatic and like sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming at even the mildest reasonable criticism while their "conservative" and "liberal" heroes alike fill their boots via incestuous relationships with big business.

The fact heir apparent to the neocon throne Liz Cheney of all people now is being lauded by the left wing press in the US as a hero of democracy (you know, that same corrupt, nepotistic "democracy" of the elites that made so many people vote for Trump in the first place; definitely worth saving, that) and liberal grande dame Nancy Pelosi makes millions every year off big tech investments says pretty much everything that needs to be said about the state of America. Jefferson's shrivelled, dying tree of liberty could certainly use some water, but in a country where the right can measure their strength in AR15s and the left in re-tweets, I think it's a pretty safe bet who'll actually end up doing the watering.
 
So at a time when the poorest people in society are paying out most of their incomes on rent and energy costs, Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng’s plan is to make it harder for workers to fight for better pay, harder for people to claim Universal Credit, and put the country even further into debt to enrich the richest people in society by cutting their taxes and uncapping their bonuses.

And the useless British population will just put up with this and do nothing, as always. Just elect another Labour government who will do sod all. Things will never get better. Just fire the nukes already Vlad, I’ve had enough.
 
Most of Europe is liable to get smaller...

Well, you were right there, although I note almost 40% of eligible Italians didn’t even bother to vote, which says a lot about people’s faith in democracy. At least the Italians seem willing to try something different (several times now) rather than flipping between red and blue flavour neolibs like us and the Yanks (because let’s be honest, Obama, Trump, Blair and Boris all talked big but they didn’t actually do much) and hoping for a different result. My only criteria for voting these days is to ask “What will cause the most chaos?” and vote for that. Anything that throws a spanner in the works of the current establishment and their ever accelerating drive to turn us all back into serfs can only be good as far as I’m concerned.
 
Well, you were right there, although I note almost 40% of eligible Italians didn’t even bother to vote, which says a lot about people’s faith in democracy. At least the Italians seem willing to try something different (several times now) rather than flipping between red and blue flavour neolibs like us and the Yanks (because let’s be honest, Obama, Trump, Blair and Boris all talked big but they didn’t actually do much) and hoping for a different result. My only criteria for voting these days is to ask “What will cause the most chaos?” and vote for that. Anything that throws a spanner in the works of the current establishment and their ever accelerating drive to turn us all back into serfs can only be good as far as I’m concerned.

I see your point Ayase but she's pretty vehemently anti-LGBT families, this is going to hurt vulnerable queer and trans children and tear apart families with LGBT parents and/or kids in them. Like yes OK "something different" but like... is there no other alternative to dumping on women, or disabled people, or people of colour, racial/ethnic minorities, refugees, immigrants, or the rainbow community if we want to change things? :(
 
I see your point Ayase but she's pretty vehemently anti-LGBT families, this is going to hurt vulnerable queer and trans children and tear apart families with LGBT parents and/or kids in them. Like yes OK "something different" but like... is there no other alternative to dumping on women, or disabled people, or people of colour, racial/ethnic minorities, refugees, immigrants, or the rainbow community if we want to change things? :(
Social policy has never been a big deal to me as personally I don’t think it’s something the government should be legislating for at all, as in just let people be. It shouldn’t matter whether people are are a different race, gender or sexuality they should all be treated the same, which to me means both no discrimination and no special treatment. It’s something I fall out with with a lot of the social left about because I don’t think there should be any protected classes and I do think freedom of speech and association should be absolute; i.e nobody should be above criticism and people should be allowed to exclude other people from groups for any reason they like. Because there’s nothing stopping people making their own groups where they can feel welcome. Why should anyone be forced to let them into theirs, or to say through gritted teeth that they agree with and support people when they don’t? Honesty is the best policy I feel, because otherwise you’re only making things worse by forcing certain opinions underground and embittering people who think things they aren’t allowed to say.

Do I personally like Ms. Miloni or agree with her policies? No. Do I think those powers that be in the establishment, entrenched as they are in the unchanging, unelected ranks of the civil service will actually allow her to make any fundamental changes to the way society operates? No. But what’s the alternative to voting for radical change? Keep voting for the steady centre left-right march of neoliberalism on the real road to serfdom because they’re “the lesser of two evils?” Have you seen our latest budget? That’s misery for everyone who earns less than £150k a year, be they white, black, gay, straight, trans or whatever. The economy, to me, is where the real fight for equality is. Social policy is a convenient divide-and-conquer distraction from the wealth divide which nobody wants us to talk about and when anybody does, they get Corbyn’d.

Edit after stewing on these thoughts for a few hours: I think where I really stand on social issues is that I find it hard to shake the feeling that modern life has caused a lot of them to exist in the first place. And by modern life I mean, like since classical antiquity. My thoughts on many social issues and controversies are as follows: Do they exist among primitive tribal people? If they don’t, our society has done something to create them it probably shouldn’t have. And I think the main things we’ve done are invent the sciences of biology and medicine. And the further back I go the more it becomes apparent we should probably never even have bothered inventing speech or written language either. Imagine a society where you could build your own house on land nobody owns, grow your own food, pay no taxes and express your feelings towards others with a simple hug or a punch to the face. Everything else was a mistake. We talk about “progress” as though it’s always a positive and a thing to strive for, yet as far as I can see it’s only made people more miserable by giving them more obligations and more things to worry about.
 
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I don't know, ayase, I get where your sentiments come from, but are you actually hoping that voting for the most chaotic choice on the ballot will by some off chance lead to any positive changes or are you just looking for the thrill of watching things blow up for a bit? It takes more than just creating the conditions for chaos for anything good to happen surely? Perhaps the chaos could provide an opening, but there would need to be something there ready to seize the moment, something more than just cynicism. And it seems to me that the votes for chaos we've seen in recent history, Trump and Brexit, didn't lead to any break with the establishment, we've just seen various sordid elements of the establishment rise up to seize that opening for themselves, which is why we now have Truss and Kwarteng and then after them we'll go back to staid neoliberalism with crappy Starmer until he fluffs it and round and round until we're gone or we actually come up with something. So what is the point of voting for something really crappy just because it's a bit different? Our chance for an actual change for the better was with Corbyn, an activist and someone with actual ideas and hope, and sadly, the chaos of brexit was only a contributing factor in his ultimate defeat.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I think it's at best naive to think anything good can come from chaos and not from tireless effort and organisation. And at worst I think it can come off as a little heartless to simply shrug off the fear of persecution and attack that members of vulnerable communities feel because you don't personally fear it. Again, I would also argue it's probably naive to believe that the "unchanging power of the civil service" won't allow for us to slide backwards rapidly when the wrong conditions are met, I mean isn't that what we're witnessing happen in the States right now? It feels foolhardy to take any progress made for granted (if indeed you value that progress!).

I do largely agree with you on the primacy of economic equality, but I think it's too blithe and easy the way you wave away other types of oppression, and I don't think it's realistic. We are where we are, we can't go back in time and be cave people.
 
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Apologies for the delay as your post deserves a serious response @Vashdaman but I also deserved a stable internet connection and to be able to relax with a cup of coffee while writing it, so in life as in politics, let's both get what we deserve.

How's that tireless effort and organisation working out for you? If it is, I'm happy to hear it but I can't say it's ever particularly worked for me, although it definitely does work very well when the people doing the organising and collaborating are governments, lobbyists, big business and the media given that their interests are aligned and they have huge amounts of resources at their disposal with which to influence everything. I think it's pretty apparent that no amount of organising or effort (at least not of the peaceful kind) can collapse or even put a dent in the current establishment, and in the absence of a revolution (which certainly the British public will never have to balls to carry out) I think the only thing that can is massive economic or societal collapse, because deprived of their comfort and security it will shock the masses out of their complacency and into action and force the establishment to actually offer meaningful solutions or be replaced. And hopefully it will in the process ruin some of those powerful, malevolent corporations and bring the price of housing back down to a sensible level. That's why I am in favour of chaos. Because without it, I don't believe any meaningful change will ever come. What made our government actually start giving a toss about the poor? The fact they'd sent them all off to war and trained them in how to kill people and they suddenly had a population actually capable of overthrowing them if they didn't start improving their lives. It's a bit of a cliche now, but people shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people. And right now, the opposite is true. We are living in a time where the people at the bottom of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs are digging themselves into debt holes and relying on charity just to afford food, heat and shelter yet they still don't rebel against their masters. It's kind of pathetic, and I think something radical needs to happen to force their hand and actually make them get up off their knees.

It is particularly fascinating to me that people continue to obey; that anyone who isn't part of the ruling class still obeys. Why people on benefits don't burn down the Job Centres. Why people working for minimum wage for usurious banks don't just transfer the imaginary fiat money straight out of the accounts of rich d*ckheads they're given access to into their own and take off with it. Why the police don't just stop enforcing pointless laws against victimless crimes and go to town on the actual villains. I guess people really do like following orders, even when it is of no benefit (and in fact detriment) to themselves. Perhaps I've just reached my inevitable political final destination in Stirnerism, but I don't really see why anyone should be expected to do anything at all any more. Certainly not when it comes to "contributing to society"; who on earth would want to contribute to perpetuating a society like this one? A society of con-men conning each other, where the way to rise to the top is to be the most ruthless, amoral con-man and the way to the bottom is to make the mistake of ever trusting any of these other con-men. Do people really think there's any difference between our government and the governments of Russia or China besides a more polished and subtle propoganda machine? We believe in democracy and self determination (except for people in Palestine, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Egypt, etc, etc.). We believe in free markets (and then bail out multinational corporations with public money while leaving small independent businesses to go to the wall). We believe in freedom of speech and the press (as long as it doesn't cross any arbitrary lines the government, or indeed private hosting platforms, have decided are inappropriate).

Your milage may vary, but personally I look at this society and I don't really see anything worth saving any more. What's it doing for you and me? Even the final vestiges of government "usefulness" in providing safety and security are gone now they're clearly happy for us to just starve in the street if we can't afford the most basic living costs which their own policies have been instrumental in raising to unaffordable levels. I'd love nothing more than for all the people being taken advantage of to turn around and refuse to be taken advantage of any more, but most of them are too spineless to do it or have internalised recent useful propaganda out of America about such actions being undemocratic "insurrection" that only the likes of the evil alt-right terrorists would engage in. Because you have to work within the system if you want to try and change things, even if there isn't a hope in Hell you ever will and the masters of the rigged system know that full well. They'll change things as and when they want to, and only what is to their benefit to change.
 
Whilst your dedication towards change is admirable, ayase, I think I will have to disagree with here.

The concept of anarchism was conceived centuries ago. Much like most political theory and much like most of the commonly known political concepts (communism, capitalism, liberalism) it cannot be very simply applied to the modern age that we live in.

This is why capitalism is failing. Communism failed a long time ago. What has risen to take their place? Nothing. Society is floundering. That's why you want change. Vashdaman and myself also. Anarchism is not that change. When there is chaos, the weak undeservedly suffer. Chaos is what we have right now. It is just masterfully concealed.

Power needs to be taken. But it can't be taken by force. Western society will not allow it, it has been constructed this way. Is this a good thing? Well, look at history. It was horrific bloodshed for the sake of power, for the sake of ideas and government. What was achieved? Exactly what we have now, the thing that we don't really like, but still, ultimately, is far better than the violence of the past and the violence still experienced in many countries at this very moment.

The chaos is not the answer. As tempting as it is, because how desperate we are for the state of the world to be the good place that it should be, the only way to that is to work hard, educate, and use our power in words. Sometimes small and sometimes not small at all.
 
When there is chaos, the weak undeservedly suffer. Chaos is what we have right now. It is just masterfully concealed.
I have to disagree with this as I think what we have now is organised, directed and enforced production line suffering. Although perhaps it is kind of deserved because people won’t stand up to it. I’m not convinced I think a smiling man (or woman) in a suit explaining to everyone they have to work for peanuts and freeze and enrich their landlords for the benefit of everyone above them in the social order, and that this is actually a good thing is any better (or really any different) than a feudal lord doing the same thing at the point of a sword. Our modern rulers are just less honest about their motives which are, and always have been, to enrich themselves at the expense of others.

Neither of those systems were particularly chaotic, they were both organised hierarchies with masters, authorities and servants. Lord/Knights/Peasants or Politicians/Police/Workers I think it will probably always be this way, because there are always people able to manipulate others, people who are easy to manipulate and people who’ll enforce the rules with violence if you give them a shiny uniform. Do I care what replaces the current system, or have any hope it would be any better? Not really. Thousands of years of history have shown it never is. But I would quite like to see the current rulers of the world torn down and made to suffer as they’ve made others suffer in one of those chaotic events we have from time to time. It would be cathartic, if nothing else. I find my manifesto now includes very little other than the word “revenge” writ large.
 
Liz Truss is probably going to be the worst PM the UK has ever had. She doesn’t know anything and as usual with politicians shecevades the questions asked and keeps blaming Putin but as much as I detest the dictator illegally invading Ukraine, it’s not his fault that the bankers have been given massive bonuses and as always with the Conservative party making the rich richer and poor poorer. The party was formed by the rich in the first place.
She talks funny and walks as if she’s skipping and as an impressionist said she reminds her of someone whose dad told her she was funny hence the dumb expressions she gives. When she was elected as PM it was embarrassing as there were pauses in between speeches as no one knew when she finished in between talking so she she had to look down at her notes.
Kwasi Kwarteng is another loser especially when he was embarrassingly seen was seen walking but not talking to journalists and he looked like he had just come out of court on bail or something. Again one of the worst Chancellor of the Exchequers ever👎👎
 
I have to disagree with this as I think what we have now is organised, directed and enforced production line suffering. Although perhaps it is kind of deserved because people won’t stand up to it. I’m not convinced I think a smiling man (or woman) in a suit explaining to everyone they have to work for peanuts and freeze and enrich their landlords for the benefit of everyone above them in the social order, and that this is actually a good thing is any better (or really any different) than a feudal lord doing the same thing at the point of a sword. Our modern rulers are just less honest about their motives which are, and always have been, to enrich themselves at the expense of others.

Neither of those systems were particularly chaotic, they were both organised hierarchies with masters, authorities and servants. Lord/Knights/Peasants or Politicians/Police/Workers I think it will probably always be this way, because there are always people able to manipulate others, people who are easy to manipulate and people who’ll enforce the rules with violence if you give them a shiny uniform. Do I care what replaces the current system, or have any hope it would be any better? Not really. Thousands of years of history have shown it never is. But I would quite like to see the current rulers of the world torn down and made to suffer as they’ve made others suffer in one of those chaotic events we have from time to time. It would be cathartic, if nothing else. I find my manifesto now includes very little other than the word “revenge” writ large.
So your one of those Who want to just watch the world burn. I have no time for such idiotic rubbish and it won't be all fun games when people come for you in your anarchist Revolution.
 
I knew this would happen, I dread to think which of my medications I might be denied if I lived in the US now (I'm on at least 7 of them), and Trump is responsible for this, he stacked the supreme court with far-right misogynists who he knew would overturn Roe vs. Wade. Though I'm also pretty miffed about Biden's lack of decisive action on it overall. Some others might not care what happens to vulnerable women and other pregnant people (trans men, non-binary female assigned at birth people) in the US or countries affected by the increasingly draconian global gag rule thanks to Trump and many before him's foul foreign policies that result in women and girls in those countries commonly being repeatedly re-traumatised throughout life (female genital mutilation, child marriage to adult men, and forced birth on top of that), but I do and this makes me lividly angry.

 
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