General News/Current Affairs Thread

They tried something like that before. Argentina has a scheme where Falkland Islanders can get an Argentinian birth certificate and passport on request, however to date only one person has taken them up on the scheme. Drives a truck through the idea that the Falkland Islanders don't exist that some in Argentina have been peddling.
 
I'm prepared to bet that Argentina would believe the referendum to be legally binding if the result was in their favour. Josh, you are entirely correct re that she should have tried to convince them why being Argentine is a good thing, not why being British is a bad thing and denying their right to autonomy.
 
ilmaestro said:
It's Peter Turkson, for me.
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teonzo said:
Agreed on Turkson.

Plus it was predicted by Pitura Freska:

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No me par vero.

Even if they do elect Turkson for the reasons you give Teo, I don't think it will have the desired result. Look at Barack Obama, people don't like him just because he's black (okay some people do, but they're idiots) they like his more liberal policies. Religions are just the opposite. I remember people saying how John Sentamu was going to reinvigorate the Church of England but he's still too conservative to have wide appeal (as is religion in general in most of the developed world now).

That is a damn catchy song BTW. Isn't that Kevin Smith?
 
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Lawrence said:
ayase said:
Well, time to stick Two Tribes or P.O.E on the record player and sit back. If we are having a war it would go some way to helping prove the fascinating Strauss–Howew/urlr rurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory#Hero]generational theory.
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I feel like I owe you a thanks for bringing this to our collective attention. I'm actually studying Conformity and Obedience in psychology at the moment and to some extent that ties in quite nicely with some of the stuff we've covered so far. I dare suggest that this means the generation that is being born at present is thus more likely to conform than any of us are, though I could be wrong.

Also, I feel it's worth mentioning that in the 'i' yesterday, there was an article about how the majority of Austrians would vote for the Nazi party if they could at this present time. Co-incidentally it's 80 years since the Nazi party really came to power and Hitler became chancellor which ties into the How-Strauss theory, to some degree I'd guess. Since the generation that was coming of age then shares similar traits with the generation coming of age now.

Perhaps I'm looking at this in the wrong way and trying to tie things together that don't fit though.
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No, that would exactly fit. People are becoming disenfranchised and coming to realise that although formerly feeling powerless and voiceless, they can gain strength and power through organisation. Especially for new or radical ideas. It's happening all over (though it's slightly disheartening that while the Italians have M5S and the Greeks have SYRIZA, we have Nigel sodding Farage. Maybe we'll be one of the Axis powers this time in coalition with the Austrians) and of course new political order leads to increased liklihood of conflict.

And not to condone this political position in any way, but what would you do now if you were an ambitious Austrian neo-Nazi and you heard that news? I'd start setting up some rallies and making some high profile speeches. Who gives a damn about the laws if the people are on your side? Hell, Hitler went to prison and next thing he was Chancellor - It would probably just increase your Nazi cred.
 
ayase said:
Even if they do elect Turkson for the reasons you give Teo, I don't think it will have the desired result.
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That's for sure. Their trend is going down and down, they just need to choose the slower path. In the next years more and more Italian people will stop supporting the Vatican and the Catholic Church. It's just a matter of time that Italy will stop giving part of the taxes to the Vatican and will stop considering all their buildings of their property in Italy as free of taxes. This will lead to some huge cash losses to them (relatively speaking, with all the money they put together in the past centuries they can maintain their luxurious life for another thousand years). If they can slow down this trend and try to maximize the gullible people they can continue to bait, then be sure they'll do it. There is a sensible amount of people that think that a black pope would be a sign of hope for change, while they would start to be turned off in case of another alter ego of Palpatine. The powers that be in the Vatican know this stuff very very well. The fact that the previous pope dismissed is pretty clear on this.



ayase said:
That is a damn catchy song BTW. Isn't that Kevin Smith?
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The story behind Pitura Freska is quite funny. As you guessed, they were formed by the brother of Kevin Smith, who unlike his brother likes to talk A LOT. He was a janitor in a school (still is if I'm right) and decided to form a reggae band and sing in Venetian dialect. They started as underground and then became big here in Veneto, especially thanks to this song:


which talks about the Pink Floyd concert in Venice, that caused a lot of logistical troubles to the city. Soon they became really popular in all Italy, this was a weird happening since they sing in dialect. Their success lead them to be invited to the Sanremo Festival (the biggest music festival in Italy), where they sang "Papa Nero" (the song from the previous post). The year before was elected the first black Miss Italia (only one to this date), Denny Méndez, so Pitura Freska went to Sanremo singing "after a black Miss Italia we want a black pope", just with good intentions since they are all for "world peace, love and smoke". That song caused them to go back in the underground, since the Church was not that happy. Even Denny Méndez got angry, thinking it was a racist song, while it was the exact opposite.

My favourite song by them is this one:




Teo
 
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(Click for MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI)

BBC News said:
Argentina's Jorge Mario Bergoglio elected Pope

Argentine Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio has been elected the Roman Catholic Church's new Pope.

The first Latin American to be Pope, he will call himself Francis I.

An hour earlier, white smoke billowing from the Sistine Chapel chimney announced to the world that cardinals gathered inside had made their choice.

Cardinal Bergoglio replaces Benedict XVI, who resigned last month saying he was not strong enough to lead the Church.

The 115 cardinals have been in isolation since Tuesday afternoon, and held four inconclusive votes.

At least 77 of them, or two-thirds, would have had to vote for a single candidate for him to be elected Pope.

Before the conclave began, there was no clear frontrunner to replace Benedict.

Crowds with umbrellas massed in the square flying flags from around the world.

The Catholic News Agency said people were running through the streets of Rome, hoping to reach St Peter's Square in time for the appearance of the new Pope.

A troupe of Swiss Guards in silver helmets and full regalia marched to the Basilica in preparation for the announcement, as military bands played for the onlookers.

The new Pope will emerge from the loggia overlooking the square to deliver his first speech.

He will have already accepted an invitation to become Pope and the cardinals will have sworn allegiance to him, after which he will have gone to pray alone.
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So, in the 1970s, the guy who is now the Pope allegedly ordered the kidnapping of two priests because they opposed to dictatorship Argentina was under back then.
 
teonzo said:
The story behind Pitura Freska is quite funny. As you guessed, they were formed by the brother of Kevin Smith, who unlike his brother likes to talk A LOT. He was a janitor in a school (still is if I'm right) and decided to form a reggae band and sing in Venetian dialect.
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:lol:

teonzo said:
Soon they became really popular in all Italy, this was a weird happening since they sing in dialect. Their success lead them to be invited to the Sanremo Festival (the biggest music festival in Italy), where they sang "Papa Nero" (the song from the previous post). The year before was elected the first black Miss Italia (only one to this date), Denny Méndezz/url], so Pitura Freska went to Sanremo singing "after a black Miss Italia we want a black pope", just with good intentions since they are all for "world peace, love and smoke". That song caused them to go back in the underground, since the Church was not that happy. Even Denny Méndez got angry, thinking it was a racist song, while it was the exact opposite../quote]
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Amazing how some people will get the wrong end of the stick even if you obviously offer it to them the way they are supposed to take it. And the fact that the church would be bothered by a song about the idea of a black pope is... well, that can't really be called anything other than racist can it?

So no winners in the pope betting. Humble is good, I think, especially if they want to be true to the original ideals of Christianity. Now let's see if they move out of the Vatican, sell off all their ornamentation, give the money to the poor and go live in humble seclusion. I'm not holding my breath though.
 
theirsbailiff said:

(Click for MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI)
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Crap, I stopped watching football years ago because I really got sick of it, but I'm still a Milan supporter... after reading how it ended my butt is still hurting.



Teo
 
ayase said:
Amazing how some people will get the wrong end of the stick even if you obviously offer it to them the way they are supposed to take it. And the fact that the church would be bothered by a song about the idea of a black pope is... well, that can't really be called anything other than racist can it?
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It's not racist, since they were going against some lowlife dirty ignorant rasta men who smoke weed.



ayase said:
So no winners in the pope betting.
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At least I was right saying they had to choose someone not European.



ayase said:
Humble is good, I think, especially if they want to be true to the original ideals of Christianity. Now let's see if they move out of the Vatican, sell off all their ornamentation, give the money to the poor and go live in humble seclusion. I'm not holding my breath though.
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For this you really need your mind to survive your mortal coils, so hope your dreams of being able to transfer your mind will be fulfilled.



Teo
 
ayase said:
Humble is good, I think, especially if they want to be true to the original ideals of Christianity. Now let's see if they move out of the Vatican, sell off all their ornamentation, give the money to the poor and go live in humble seclusion. I'm not holding my breath though.
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The problem is that Catholicism basically became a religion itself as opposed to just being a denomination of Christianity, like before. Their lack of modesty and humbleness isn't the only problem. They also idolise Mary, (which I don't have to explain why it's such a problem) and everything they do is far too ritualised or formalised. It's especially worrying how much money the Catholic church and Vatican make. They're like a charity without the charitable work part. It's almost as if they absorb money. I don't like speculating but I wouldn't be surprised if the Vatican is more corrupt than FIFA.
 
Right, moving away from Catholicism and Football to more local news now

Press regulation talks 'break down'

Cross-party talks on the Leveson press reforms have broken down, the prime minister has confirmed.

David Cameron told Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband the gap between them was "too great" to bridge, the BBC understands.

He said he would publish plans for a royal charter to establish a tougher press regulator on Monday and urged them to support the proposals.

Labour said he was making an "historic mistake". The Lib Dems said the situation was "extremely regrettable".

Campaign group Hacked Off said the prime minister's announcement "shows that he's still protecting his friends in the press and betraying press abuse victims".

MPs are expected to debate the Conservative proposals on Monday.

Mr Cameron said a royal charter would help to create the world's "toughest" regulatory system.

The proposals would see a new independent body oversee the system of press self-regulation.

Lord Justice Leveson's report, which was published in November, called for a new independent press watchdog underpinned by legislation - something the Lib Dems and Labour support.

The 2,000-page report into press ethics found press behaviour was "outrageous" and "wreaked havoc with the lives of innocent people".

'Very disappointed'

Speaking at a Number 10 press conference, Mr Cameron confirmed cross-party talks on press reform had "concluded without agreement".

He said press treatment of those including the families of missing girl Madeleine McCann and murdered teenager Milly Dowler was "absolutely despicable", stressing he wanted a new system to prevent such things happening.

But he insisted a full legislative response presented "real dangers".

"It crosses the Rubicon in terms of endangering press freedoms," he said.

He added a royal charter approach was a "proven way of establishing a public body without the need for legislation".

The prime minister emphasised a charter would ensure "the independent self-regulation that Lord Justice Leveson recommended while simultaneously protecting the precious independence and freedom of our press".

He said he was putting forward the most "workable" and most "deliverable" plan he could.

"The route I have set out is the fastest possible way to deliver the strong self-regulation body that Leveson proposed - that can put in place million-pound fines, prominent apologises and get justice for victims in this country.

'Nothing agreed'

"The deal is there to be done, it is the fastest way to get proper justice for victims."

Mr Cameron also said other parties could table their own proposals: "They can back my amendments or they can grandstand and end up with a system that I don't believe will work."

"If you establish a system that people don't take part in you haven't solved the problem."

The prime minister's comments come after the three main political parties held face-to-face talks on Wednesday to discuss whether plans for a new watchdog should be underpinned by legislation.

But Mr Cameron told Lib Dem leader Mr Clegg and Labour leader Mr Miliband by phone on Thursday he would not accept a press law of any kind, the BBC's political editor Nick Robinson said.

He said he feared it would be open to constant amendment in parliament, producing a system of regulation way beyond that which Lord Justice Leveson recommended, added our political editor.

But Mr Miliband said Mr Cameron was "making an historic mistake".

The Labour leader said the prime minister's solution did not serve the victims of press intrusion as "ministers could change his proposals without reference to Parliament, and it's not properly independent of the press".

He added a cross-party solution could still be reached, even if Labour and the Lib Dems went above Mr Cameron's head to talk to Tory MPs.

Deputy Liberal Democrat leader Simon Hughes said Mr Cameron's move was "extremely regrettable", adding his party would not support a "simple charter".

He also called for sufficient time to debate other amendments "because some of us are determined to get it right and not to dishonour our pledge made after the Leveson report".

Media reform campaigner Max Mosley told the BBC passing a royal charter could put press regulation back to square one.

"The reason we need legislation is that whatever we agree, the press could not backslide on it," he said.

BBC political correspondent Norman Smith said there would now be "a showdown over Leveson - a Commons confrontation" between the Conservatives against the Lib Dems and Labour.

Mr Cameron knew they were considering having a vote and possibly wanted to be go on the offensive and force one, our correspondent said.

He also said that if the prime minister were to lose a vote he could at least turn to the press and say that he fought for their cause.
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NHS 'gagging clauses' must end, says health secretary

"Gagging clauses" in severance agreements for NHS staff in England must end, the health secretary says.

Jeremy Hunt told the Daily Mail said he wanted to see a clampdown on such practices and would seek to introduce wording into agreements making it clear people could still whistle-blow.

But fellow Tory MP Stephen Barclay has claimed the move may not go far enough in dealing with a lack of transparency.

The use of the clauses in the NHS is thought to have been widespread.

In the last five years, more than 400 compromise agreements outlining special severance payments for departing NHS staff have been approved by the Department of Health.

But the department has said it does not know the extent to which payments were tied to clauses stopping recipients speaking out about any problems of patient safety or care.

'Love the NHS'

Mr Hunt told the Mail a "culture of openness and transparency" was at the heart of trying to drive up NHS standards.

He said: "There has been a culture where people felt if you speak up about problems in the NHS you didn't love the NHS. Actually it's exactly the opposite.

'We are now saying we won't approve any [compromise agreements] with a confidentiality clause that prevents people speaking out about patient safety or patient care.

"We will make sure there is a specific clause in them saying that nothing in them can prevent people speaking out."

Mr Barclay, a member of the Commons public accounts committee, has sought to uncover how much public money has been spent on compromise agreements.

While welcoming the announcement, he told the BBC that other severance payments to staff made through a different process, known as judicial mediation, may not be covered by the new rules.

This process does not involve the Treasury or the Department of Health, Mr Barclay said.

He added: "The gagging clauses had a chilling effect. In essence it put the legal risk on the whistleblower to prove they were complying with the public interest disclosure act. That's really what led a lot of people to keep quiet.

"It is unclear whether payments made through judicial mediation will be covered by the announcement today.

"Parliament still doesn't know how much has been paid through judicial mediation and whether any changes will be made in terms of gagging clauses in those arrangements."

'Covering up'

The move by Mr Hunt follows the scandal surrounding Stafford Hospital, where hundreds of patients are believed to have died after receiving poor care.

"Mid Staffs happened because there was a culture of covering up problems," Mr Hunt said.

"We need to encourage front-line NHS employees who see problems to come forward, in the first instance to tell their own institution about them, but then having the ability to go beyond that if they don't think anything is being done about their concerns."

In the wake of the Stafford Hospital scandal, the government has announced the creation of a new post of chief inspector of hospitals from autumn this year.

Mr Hunt said: "The chief inspector will examine lots of different areas, but one third of the entire score for a hospital will be based on patient experience - the extent to which patients would recommend your hospital to friends and family, the extent to which your complaints procedure actually listens to people.

"In too many places hospitals think that patient care is something you do when you have done everything else."

Fourteen trusts in England are currently being investigated for high death rates.

Controversy over gagging clauses has particularly focused on one of them, United Lincolnshire Hospitals Trust (ULHT), after its former chief executive, Gary Walker, broke a gag to speak about his 2010 dismissal and concerns over care.

In an exclusive interview with the BBC, Mr Walker - whose case was dealt with through judicial mediation - complained about "a culture of fear, a culture of oppression" within the NHS.

"These are big problems," he said. "And if you consider that the people that have been running the NHS have created that culture of fear, they need either to be held to account or new people need to be brought in to change that culture."
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MaxonTreik said:
ayase said:
Humble is good, I think, especially if they want to be true to the original ideals of Christianity. Now let's see if they move out of the Vatican, sell off all their ornamentation, give the money to the poor and go live in humble seclusion. I'm not holding my breath though.
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The problem is that Catholicism basically became a religion itself as opposed to just being a denomination of Christianity, like before. Their lack of modesty and humbleness isn't the only problem. They also idolise Mary, (which I don't have to explain why it's such a problem) and everything they do is far too ritualised or formalised. It's especially worrying how much money the Catholic church and Vatican make. They're like a charity without the charitable work part. It's almost as if they absorb money. I don't like speculating but I wouldn't be surprised if the Vatican is more corrupt than FIFA.
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For someone who doesn't really like religion full stop, the whole veneration of Mary thing always seemed to me like one of the better things about Catholicism, at least there's a sort of balance there between worshipping both the male and female aspects. Most early religions were centred on a mother-goddess after all, then pantheons of mixed gender, but Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all particularly patriarchal (to their detriment, IMO).

The veneration of Mary is just the ancient mother-goddess worship within a new context and it seems perfectly natural (if somewhat primitive) that if you're going to be thankful for the creation of life then motherhood and childbirth is the thing to idolise. Not that it has done much for gender equality within the Church, oddly.

theirsbailiff said:
Press regulation talks 'break down'
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More than anyone else I was cheering on Ian Hislop at Leveson, when his point was that the wrongdoing which had taken place within various media establishments was already illegal under existing laws and that what was needed wasn't further press regulation, but to actually prosecute the people who had engaged in behaviour such as phone hacking because it was already illegal.

I want to see people held to account for abusing their positions of power and influence (let's have Piers Morgan back here in the bloody dock, not fronting his own TV show in America) but I don't want to see freedom of speech or the press diminished. That would set a dangerous precedent, I think.
 
ayase said:
MaxonTreik said:
ayase said:
Humble is good, I think, especially if they want to be true to the original ideals of Christianity. Now let's see if they move out of the Vatican, sell off all their ornamentation, give the money to the poor and go live in humble seclusion. I'm not holding my breath though.
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The problem is that Catholicism basically became a religion itself as opposed to just being a denomination of Christianity, like before. Their lack of modesty and humbleness isn't the only problem. They also idolise Mary, (which I don't have to explain why it's such a problem) and everything they do is far too ritualised or formalised. It's especially worrying how much money the Catholic church and Vatican make. They're like a charity without the charitable work part. It's almost as if they absorb money. I don't like speculating but I wouldn't be surprised if the Vatican is more corrupt than FIFA.
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For someone who doesn't really like religion full stop, the whole veneration of Mary thing always seemed to me like one of the better things about Catholicism, at least there's a sort of balance there between worshipping both the male and female aspects. Most early religions were centred on a mother-goddess after all, then pantheons of mixed gender, but Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all particularly patriarchal (to their detriment, IMO).

The veneration of Mary is just the ancient mother-goddess worship within a new context and it seems perfectly natural (if somewhat primitive) that if you're going to be thankful for the creation of life then motherhood and childbirth is the thing to idolise. Not that it has done much for gender equality within the Church, oddly.
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That may be true when looking at it from your point of view, but you have to remember that the Ten Commandments, the very foundation Christianity, are being ignored. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" basically means no idolatry, yet they are praising an idol and images of said idol every day. Hypocrisy has a name, and its name is Catholicism.

I hope this doesn't turn into a religion thread. The last thing an internet forum needs is a discussion on religion since we all know how those end up.
 
(Not quoting because it won't let me, this is in direct response to Maxon, above).

Yeah, I'm looking at it from more of a Golden Bough perspective (something else Lawrence might be interested in taking a look at) - As the article says, looking at religion "as a cultural phenomenon rather than from a theological perspective". I don't believe in any of it but think it's fascinating how it developed all the same. Obviously, people looking from a theological perspective are going to have different views.

Let me just confirm I have no desire for any more religious debates either, especially if they're a matter of "believer vs. non-believer". They just go nowhere.
 
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