Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
By original source I take it you mean the VN and what's the missing part please?
Garden of Sinners Simulwatch.
- Thread starter Vincentdante
- Start date
Vincentdante
Time-Traveller
I actually don't know the details since it was never translated but it elaborates further on somethings that ties into the main plot better. The original source material was a light novel actually
Vincentdante
Time-Traveller
Episode 7 - A better love story than Twilight
Damn a whole week has gone by. But I simply didn't have the time to sit and watch this unfortunatley until now.
Also RIP Kokuto's eye, this movie was definitely better as a second viewing. I could take in quite a lot more and I appreciate how everything came to a head. One of Nasu's strength's as a writer really shows in this movie, he can take a simple concept and spin it quite far in so many different ways. And even after death Araya's influence is still felt.
So lore time
The origin is explored a bit in this movie, and explained really well by Touko. As a brief recap, as people die they become worm food, then that food becomes the grass, eaten by other animals passing your soul through a reincarnation cycle similar to Buddism. The moment your soul came into existence as whatever it was at first is what is referred to as your origin. Everyone has an origin, magus or not, that determines how someone will act in their everyday life. Our serial killer's origin is "Devourer" probably from being a Lion, Kokuto's would be something like "pacifist" which probably came from being a sheep. In Fate, Emiya Shirou's origin is "Sword" as noted by Tohsaka.
Araya was a magus who specialised in bringing out a persons origin as he mentioned in movie 5. Normally an origin's effect on a person is something as minor as he's a nice guy, or he's scared of spiders. It's when a person becomes accutely aware of what their origin is, that is when it becomes twisted like our serial killer in this movie. He had the origin "devourer" so when he became aware of this, that is what he must do and can no longer be swayed. While a person is unaware, eh it's more like a mild suggestion and you still have control.
The origin of a person is also a persons tie to the root, it's how the planetcontrols guides people so they don't do something stupid like say... try to reach the root. This also has the effect of allowing the counter force to directly tap into a persons origin and guide them away from doing such a silly thing.
As an aside Mages are simply folk who have become a bit more aware of all this, and have made it their ultimate goal to reach the root and gain such power. I bring this up as this should help explain the level of difficulty that a magus will face in the nasuverse. When your opponent is an all omnipotent power such as that, oh and other mages. Plans to reach this goal are thought up over generations, and executed over generations more. Hence why passing on your magic circuit is of utmost importance in magus families.
Speaking of mages, they are taught about the origin as part of their training. This is because the origin also determines what type of magic that person will be good at. Makes sense doesn't it? In real life a person with an interest in computer's will more than likely train to be a coder or an engineer. Same for a mage, someone interested in geology might studie earth magics or something to that effect. If a magus can read your origin they can make a solid guess as to what spells you have up your sleeve.
A second positive effect of studying the origin for a mage is via the magic circuit. Mages study and perfect a single magic over their life, this is then written on the families magic crest, and passed on from mage to pupil who then has access to that, and will also proceed to expand the family crest with another magic. So basically choosing the right pupil to make a better crest is an important part of the selection process. This is why mage society has a heirarchy where older mage families have more prestige, it's simply because they were around longer and have better magic crests.
Well anyway TL;DR - Araya sucks and was too dangerous to let live.
Damn a whole week has gone by. But I simply didn't have the time to sit and watch this unfortunatley until now.
Also RIP Kokuto's eye, this movie was definitely better as a second viewing. I could take in quite a lot more and I appreciate how everything came to a head. One of Nasu's strength's as a writer really shows in this movie, he can take a simple concept and spin it quite far in so many different ways. And even after death Araya's influence is still felt.
So lore time
The origin is explored a bit in this movie, and explained really well by Touko. As a brief recap, as people die they become worm food, then that food becomes the grass, eaten by other animals passing your soul through a reincarnation cycle similar to Buddism. The moment your soul came into existence as whatever it was at first is what is referred to as your origin. Everyone has an origin, magus or not, that determines how someone will act in their everyday life. Our serial killer's origin is "Devourer" probably from being a Lion, Kokuto's would be something like "pacifist" which probably came from being a sheep. In Fate, Emiya Shirou's origin is "Sword" as noted by Tohsaka.
Araya was a magus who specialised in bringing out a persons origin as he mentioned in movie 5. Normally an origin's effect on a person is something as minor as he's a nice guy, or he's scared of spiders. It's when a person becomes accutely aware of what their origin is, that is when it becomes twisted like our serial killer in this movie. He had the origin "devourer" so when he became aware of this, that is what he must do and can no longer be swayed. While a person is unaware, eh it's more like a mild suggestion and you still have control.
The origin of a person is also a persons tie to the root, it's how the planet
As an aside Mages are simply folk who have become a bit more aware of all this, and have made it their ultimate goal to reach the root and gain such power. I bring this up as this should help explain the level of difficulty that a magus will face in the nasuverse. When your opponent is an all omnipotent power such as that, oh and other mages. Plans to reach this goal are thought up over generations, and executed over generations more. Hence why passing on your magic circuit is of utmost importance in magus families.
Speaking of mages, they are taught about the origin as part of their training. This is because the origin also determines what type of magic that person will be good at. Makes sense doesn't it? In real life a person with an interest in computer's will more than likely train to be a coder or an engineer. Same for a mage, someone interested in geology might studie earth magics or something to that effect. If a magus can read your origin they can make a solid guess as to what spells you have up your sleeve.
A second positive effect of studying the origin for a mage is via the magic circuit. Mages study and perfect a single magic over their life, this is then written on the families magic crest, and passed on from mage to pupil who then has access to that, and will also proceed to expand the family crest with another magic. So basically choosing the right pupil to make a better crest is an important part of the selection process. This is why mage society has a heirarchy where older mage families have more prestige, it's simply because they were around longer and have better magic crests.
Well anyway TL;DR - Araya sucks and was too dangerous to let live.
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
As always, the lore info is much appreciated and good to know more about the use of origin here.
I can, however, imagine a Nasuverse lawyer roll his eyes when hearing for the umpteenth time the argument for "oh but dear sir it is my origin, I simply cannot help myself!!
I can, however, imagine a Nasuverse lawyer roll his eyes when hearing for the umpteenth time the argument for "oh but dear sir it is my origin, I simply cannot help myself!!
That is an incredibly risky move! What child doesn't rebel against their parents? Must be down to Japanese discipline heh.
Good to know as I'd definitely missed that with the reference being lost on me at the time. Good to have the magic circuits' development and inheritance also fleshed out. Will help with the fate re-watch when I get around to it heh.
He was pretty badass and, unless I'm mistaken, seemed to have a backstory just barely hinted at, that could have been most interesting to demonstrate the creation of such a monster.
Vincentdante
Time-Traveller
I'm glad you are enjoying it
Vincentdante
Time-Traveller
Episode 8 - How I met your god
A lot of philisophical discussion on what it means to live. There is no answer and everyone should really take it as they see it themselves.
Lore wise the being we see in front of us is the real Shiki Ryougi. Take everything I have discussed up to now and apply it all to this. Shiki's origin was "nothingness" She was born in still birth and died in infancy. However the Ryougi family have the ability to instill personalities into others and thus was Shiki born into nothingness. Neither alive nor truely dead. If there was ever a contender for reaching the mystic eyes of death perception this was certainly a strong one. Plus the death of another personality at a later point was merely the trigger.
Shiki is a soul within a body, no real personality. She lives peacfully in the root where the soul came from, as she died in still birth she never technically left the root either. So Shiki created the two personalities of male and female Shiki to be her eyes into the world. This of course means that by pure accident and a series of coincidences the Ryougi family have achieved the lifelong ambition of all magus and have touched the root. Shiki could reshape the world anyway she wants hence why she offered to grant Kokuto a wish.
Shiki is frankly one of the most powerful beings on the planet within the nasuverse. Our other user of mystic eyes of death perception can't hold a candle to her.
A lot of philisophical discussion on what it means to live. There is no answer and everyone should really take it as they see it themselves.
Lore wise the being we see in front of us is the real Shiki Ryougi. Take everything I have discussed up to now and apply it all to this. Shiki's origin was "nothingness" She was born in still birth and died in infancy. However the Ryougi family have the ability to instill personalities into others and thus was Shiki born into nothingness. Neither alive nor truely dead. If there was ever a contender for reaching the mystic eyes of death perception this was certainly a strong one. Plus the death of another personality at a later point was merely the trigger.
Shiki is a soul within a body, no real personality. She lives peacfully in the root where the soul came from, as she died in still birth she never technically left the root either. So Shiki created the two personalities of male and female Shiki to be her eyes into the world. This of course means that by pure accident and a series of coincidences the Ryougi family have achieved the lifelong ambition of all magus and have touched the root. Shiki could reshape the world anyway she wants hence why she offered to grant Kokuto a wish.
Shiki is frankly one of the most powerful beings on the planet within the nasuverse. Our other user of mystic eyes of death perception can't hold a candle to her.
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
Thanks for filling this gap and the other lore info, don't think this one's mentioned in the movies.
I want to ask who, but get the feeling I may be spoiling some story I may come across in the future heh.
Vincentdante
Time-Traveller
It was mentioned very breifly, it's a blink and you will miss it situation but that's true for a lot of it in that movie though.
It's not a spoiler, Shiki Tohno from Tsukihime
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
Shows how much I know about Tsukihime heh. Also seems that being a Shiki in a Nasuverse reality bodes well in terms of superpowers.