Garden of Sinners Simulwatch.

[Lordhippos]

Movie 2

The thing I remember most after watching this the first time is just how different this Shiki is to the one we met in Movie 1.

Shiki proving that you can, in fact, wear a jacket over a Kimono

Kokotu was naive as has been pointed out, but he's proven he is husbando material for Shiki, by not running away after the declaration that Shiki is in fact a split personality with a penchant for murderous behaviour.

There was some interesting discourse around how you perceive others to view you, versus how they actually do, and how you can't assume anything when it comes to this external factor, at least that was my take away from the discussion anyway.

Kokotu is convinced that Shiki is not guilty of murder, but wants to see if he can test that theory up close and personal.

 

[Birdie Num Num]

Film 2 - First Time Watch, I thought that was slightly better than the first film. I liked that we got backstory for Shiki and Kokotu, and I'm with Kokotu, I don't really think if she is the murderer. She was just there and found the bodies and put blood on her lips while smiling....

I did notice when Shiki was having her sword match, her left arm got cut, foreshadowing for losing her arm. So far I'm happy with this blind buy and hope that the next bunch of films are just as good or better even.

 

[Lordhippos]

So far I'm happy with this blind buy and hope that the next bunch of films are just as good or better even.

I mentioned in my first post but it's a bit of a slow burn, but it's not all slow burn, there is payoff too, I would not wish to set your expectations as to when however

 

[Dai]

2. .......and nothing heart.
This is the second-weakest movie in the series, IMO. In theory it should be good that we're getting all this backstory and character interaction between Shiki and Kokutou, but in practice it just makes me want to smack them both. Kokutou is infuriatingly naive here. I know it's supposed to show blind faith in the person he loves, but he just comes across like the kind of battered spouse who keeps insisting their partner would never really hurt them, right up until the moment they're beaten to death.

The other thing that annoys me about this movie is the perfunctory way it establishes Rio with a throwaway 10-second appearance, considering how important he is later. Very poor fore-shadowing.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Kokotu is convinced that Shiki is not guilty of murder, but wants to see if he can test that theory up close and personal.

Kokotu was naive as has been pointed out, but he's proven he is husbando material for Shiki

No man could be more honest when stating the vows of "till death do us part"!

I don't really think if she is the murderer. She was just there and found the bodies and put blood on her lips while smiling....

Dude, what about the incredibly fresh headless corpse she was bathing in the blood of??! Just kidding, Kokuto does have a point in that he has not witnessed the actual murder, just circumstances immediately after, but boy is he splitting hairs.

I did notice when Shiki was having her sword match, her left arm got cut, foreshadowing for losing her arm.

Good spot! I'd missed that, both times if I might add...

I know it's supposed to show blind faith in the person he loves, but he just comes across like the kind of battered spouse who keeps insisting their partner would never really hurt them, right up until the moment they're beaten to death.

That's exactly how he comes across, worryingly so, though I get the feeling it wasn't meant to be ironic and we were genuinely just meant to believe in his magnanimous support for Shiki.

Also I'm very surprised that, as per the laws of high school anime characters, his blandness doesn't have a whole harem of his classmates chucking themselves at him, even if Shiki counts as two of said harem...

Spoiler

the perfunctory way it establishes Rio with a throwaway 10-second appearance, considering how important he is later. Very poor fore-shadowing.

I'm almost certainly wrong about this, but was his development an afterthought to complete the initial murder story eventually after being forgotten for the the main story arc? Can't recall him being shown again but for the final one...

 

[Lordhippos]

After our recent Shiki watch @Geriatric hedgehog I was going to add that Shiki is a bit of an okiagari isn't she?

 

[Vincentdante]

Film 2 - First Time Watch, I thought that was slightly better than the first film. I liked that we got backstory for Shiki and Kokotu, and I'm with Kokotu, I don't really think if she is the murderer. She was just there and found the bodies and put blood on her lips while smiling....

I did notice when Shiki was having her sword match, her left arm got cut, foreshadowing for losing her arm. So far I'm happy with this blind buy and hope that the next bunch of films are just as good or better even.

Good catch with shiki's arm. Wow I missed that myself too.

 

[Vincentdante]

2. .......and nothing heart.
This is the second-weakest movie in the series, IMO. In theory it should be good that we're getting all this backstory and character interaction between Shiki and Kokutou, but in practice it just makes me want to smack them both. Kokutou is infuriatingly naive here. I know it's supposed to show blind faith in the person he loves, but he just comes across like the kind of battered spouse who keeps insisting their partner would never really hurt them, right up until the moment they're beaten to death.

The other thing that annoys me about this movie is the perfunctory way it establishes Rio with a throwaway 10-second appearance, considering how important he is later. Very poor fore-shadowing.

I agree they really could have done Rio a lot better. It's either too obvious it's the well animated nobody or it's impossible to solve.

 

[Dai]

3. ever cry, never life.
A self-contained story this time, and stronger for it. Assumptions about which characters' actions are justified or not are continually shaken up throughout until everyone has blood on their hands and it's hard to tell if anyone was 'right'. This movie features possibly the most despicable example of senpai/kouhai culture I've ever seen, where Kokutou harbours his junior, a confessed and unrepentent serial rapist, not only from the sadistic avenger but seemingly from the law too (let's not forget that his brother is a detective). It's a glaring plot hole that we never find out what became of Keita in the end; was he even arrested?

For all her edgelord talk of 'murdering' everything in sight, Shiki is probably the most moral character in this chapter (Touko lost that battle by being a deadbeat who doesn't pay her staff). If an appendectomy is murder, Japan's surgeons need to take another look at their insurance. As with Keita, we don't really find out what happens to Fujino afterwards. This is a recurring theme across the chapters; Shiki and co. only seem interested in stopping the supernatural event, and take no interest in the aftermath (in movie 1, Shiki didn't even seem too motivated to prevent any deaths aside from Kokutou's, writing them off as inevitable due to the number of time-displaced ghosts she saw). Whatever you think of Fujino's revenge against the rapists, she lost any shred of justification once she killed that random driver, so again it's awkward that the story dodges the issue of whether she's prosecuted.

Overall it's an interesting story that seems engineered to leave the viewer without easy answers.

 

[WMD]

3. ever cry, never life.

Probably the best film so far. Also the darkest and most uncomfortable. Theres no real happy ending for anyone but some managed to survive so theres that.

It also goes to show how a few well lined up coincidences can really throw a spanner in the works.

 

[Lordhippos]

Movie 3

That early rape scene was quite hard-watching I thought, these people were just there taking advantage of this poor girl and using her like a doll. not a human.

I agree with @Dai that crew deserved no sympathy at all, not a single one of them tried to stop any of the proceedings. All scum to me!

Kokutou once again somehow drawn to trying to protect the psychopathic girl, there aren't that many of them, but he sure manages to find them all the same.

There was a couple of contrivances here that seemed to exist just for the plot, like how Tokou somehow guessed that she was hit on the back which fixed her pain sensitivity, and how the pain in her abdomen was thought to be a knife wound but was instead her appendix.

The fight scene at the end was really good though, felt like a mini boss battle

 

[WMD]

4. garan-no-dou

Really enjoyed this one. Seeing the team form, filling the gap between 2nd film and the others, seeing Shiki actually show real vulnerability; it's all good stuff. I guess having Kokouto be more of a background character helps too lol.

The early parts where we see Shiki in a more ethereal plane was really cool and very nicely animated/designed. The action at the end was well done too and Touko actually participated which was cool to see.

The post credits scene was cool too. Setting up future films while giving some new context to old ones!

@farzam1999 yeah that's how I've understood the order as well

 

[WMD]

Do you think Touko didn't kill the zombie on purpose to "force" Shiki to use her ability? - I got that impression.

Yeah I think so. She's a sly one. Also the conversation she has with Kokouto about using a different voice to manage how she comes across to her advantage is kind of foreshadowing for that moment. To me at least.

 

[Dai]

4. garan-no-dou.
Some suitably creepy spirit world goings on in this one, and we find out that Shiki's mystic eyes of death perception are in dire need of an off switch. Aside from that, Shiki fights a zombie, and that's about it.

 

[Lordhippos]

Movie 4

This was a very Shiki focused episode, with puppy-kun not making much of an appearance.

We finally see how Shiki uses her eyes to kill SHIKI so that she is just one persona again, but we haven't yet seen how Shiki wound up in the hospital in the first place yet. Even though I have seen the series before, I am not sure even I can remember the exact events that caused it either.

I think Touko just wants some cheap workers, Shiki is happy to be paid in murder, and previously we've seen Kokouto is kinda happy not to be paid at all. Touko also shows how she can change her style to fit various roles/perceptions.

In the end, I think even though she left it to Shiki to deal with the ghoul, she was just letting her practice and would have stepped in should she have been needed. Incidentally this is the first time we see Touko take the stage and use her abilities.

 

[Dai]

We finally see how Shiki uses her eyes to kill SHIKI so that she is just one persona again

Uh, we did? I didn't get that impression at all. My reading of it was that Shiki was hovering so close to death that one of the personas had to die, and it was either random chance which one didn't survive or SHIKI sacrificed himself. The way Touko keeps saying, "For what reason did SHIKI die?" made it sound to me like he sacrificed himself so Shiki could survive, and Touko thinks she's wasting the life she was given back.

 

[Lordhippos]

Uh, we did? I didn't get that impression at all. My reading of it was that Shiki was hovering so close to death that one of the personas had to die, and it was either random chance which one didn't survive or SHIKI sacrificed himself. The way Touko keeps saying, "For what reason did SHIKI die?" made it sound to me like he sacrificed himself so Shiki could survive, and Touko thinks she's wasting the life she was given back.

Wasn't it where she stabbed herself? I don't think there was a struggle there, but I think she needed the eyes to see where to stab herself. Could be mistaken of course.

Edit - rechecking it, she stabbed herself to kill the spirits not SHIKI right? SHIKI must have already been dead from the accident.

 

[Birdie Num Num]

Sorry for the absence, but I have been watching.

Film 3 - Not an easy watch, starting the film with a rape scene. I suppose setting the tone for the film. I believe Keita was probably arrested, as Touko does say they have his confession recorded.

Film 4 - An incident puts Shiki in the hospital and wakes to find she has supernatural power. I think I need to pay closer attention to the dates, as I was a bit confused when this takes place. It's directly after she tries to murder Kokutou, right?

Enjoying it so far. Tomorrow's film is nearly 2 hours in length, longest one so far.

 

[WMD]

Edit - rechecking it, she stabbed herself to kill the spirits not SHIKI right? SHIKI must have already been dead from the accident.

Yeah. The way I understood it. SHIKI dying is what allowed Shiki to wake up from the coma. But that left a hole in her heart as, in a sense, half of her being is gone now. The evil spirits sensed that hole and tried to fill it themselves but couldnt enter the room as Tokuo had placed the rune on the door so they inhabited a corpse to get to her. After the evil spirit is ejected from the corpse it enters Shiki and that's when she stabs herself to destroy the spirit.

 

[Lordhippos]

I think I need to pay closer attention to the dates, as I was a bit confused when this takes place. It's directly after she tries to murder Kokutou, right?

That is my understanding.

Movie 1 Shiki is the singular Shiki and the gang are all together, solving the case of the girl who makes other girls jump off the building. In this Shiki also has her false arm.

Movie 2 we go back in time to before Shiki's accident, and see how Shiki and Kokotu met, ending with her trying to murderise him.

Movie 3 covers the case of the rape victim girl. Shiki loses her arm in this one, but she's got her powers so it must be set before Movie 1 but after Movie 4.

Movie 4 seems to be set directly after Movie 2.

Therefore I concur with the assessment on the previous page, the order to date is 2-4-3-1.