Garden of Sinners Simulwatch.

[Vincentdante]

Garden of Sinners Simulwatch. Who is ready for some Nasuverse levels of mind breaking? Proposed dates and times are as follows.

9th October 2021	Kara no Kyoukai 1: Fukan Fuukei In September 1998, a string of seemingly random suicides leaves Japan baffled and devastated. But a detective agency specializing in paranormal occurrences notices that there are a few glaring, disturbing similarities tying the deceptively unrelated cases together: All the victims are... myanimelist.net
11th October 2021	Kara no Kyoukai 2: Satsujin Kousatsu (Zen) In the winter of 1995, Mikiya Kokutou passes a young woman during a late night stroll in the snow. Clad in a striking white kimono and bearing an enigmatic gaze, Shiki Ryougi smiles at Mikiya who stares back with curiosity. Later that spring, Mikiya notices Shiki at his high school entrance... myanimelist.net
13th October 2021	Kara no Kyoukai 3: Tsuukaku Zanryuu On a solemn night in July 1998, teenager Fujino Asagami is mercilessly raped by a street gang in a dilapidated bar. No matter what physical or sexual abuse they deal, however, the girl regards her captors with the same apathetic expression. The next day, mangled bodies are discovered in that... myanimelist.net
15th October 2021	Kara no Kyoukai 4: Garan no Dou Following the events of Satsujin Kousatsu (Zen), Shiki Ryougi has been in a coma for two years due to a traffic accident. When she finally awakens, she has no memories of her past and is plagued by a profound loneliness. Even stranger, she notices dark lines encompassing the things around her... myanimelist.net
17th October 2021	Kara no Kyoukai 5: Mujun Rasen In November 1998, a double homicide occurs at the newly constructed Ogawa apartment complex in the heart of Mifune City. The murderer, Tomoe Enjou, has fled in a panic. To his astonishment, he is not pursued by the police and news of the incident has not been reported through media outlets... myanimelist.net
19th October 2021	Kara no Kyoukai 6: Boukyaku Rokuon With strange events occurring at Reien Girls' Academy during winter break, Azaka Kokutou, a student and apprentice mage, is sent by her master to investigate. It turns out that another mage has been stealing the students' memories using fairies that, despite her magical talent, are invisible to... myanimelist.net
21st October 2021	Kara no Kyoukai 7: Satsujin Kousatsu (Go) In February 1999, a string of murders has Shiki Ryougi and Mikiya Kokutou on edge. These crimes share a disturbing resemblance to a similar set of homicides from 1995, when Shiki and Mikiya first met, and awaken a dark, murderous desire that has laid dormant within Shiki's soul ever since then... myanimelist.net
22nd October 2021	Kara no Kyoukai 8: Shuushou While walking home, Mikiya Kokutou comes across a familiar sight: Shiki Ryougi standing by a railing amidst the falling snow, just as when he first met her four years ago. While the two talk of their past and shared experiences, Mikiya realizes that something is strange about Shiki; rather, this... myanimelist.net

This is following the current Shiki Simulwatch so there will be no clash.

 

[Lordhippos]

This should be an interesting re-watch for me, I think I watched this some months ago, but I can definitely see how a 2nd watch of this will have value.

 

[Vincentdante]

Just boosting this thread and remind everyone we are coming up to the start date

As they are movies I intend to watch the night before so I have more time. Hope you all get comfy and find a way that works for you.

 

[Vincentdante]

Episode 1? Movie 1? Both or neither?

A ton to unpack and we are just getting started along with the best animated eating of frozen ice cream from a tub ever put on disc. So the premise of this film was the 8 ghosts represented future suicide victims. It's kind of appropriate that we are watching this series in the Halloween season. Though as it turns out these suicides were being influenced by an accidental magi who as fate would have it became the 8th victim completing the cycle of spirits. My theory (and this is a theory as it's been a while and I can't remember if it was elaborated in later movies) is that the unexplained link here is that all 8 of these victims must have lived in this building when it was still operational. It was mentioned after all that it was recently evacuated I'll elaborate in spoilers because I run the risk of being full of it lol.

Spoiler: Theorycrafting

So Touka mentions some interesting things near the beginning about this building, time is slowed down and is catching up to itself. The spirits are are actually the memories of the people who have died, and yet we know they were alive and were later victims of possessed suicide at the same time.

I think that these girls were living there before it got evacuated and that they "died" while leaving their memories behind, perhapes around the same time Kirie got sick perhapes?

Spoiler: Actual spoiler from a later movie

Though I am fully aware that this event was linked to a certain somebody from a later film.

Well it's best not to over think thisa as we have 7 more movies to get through each with their own mystery to unravel. We get plenty of forshadowing to later movies, though anyone who has seen it know about these mentioned events and characters. It's been a while admittedly so it's going to be a nice reminder but I remember the jist of it. Also I am reminded on how amazing the musical score is in this series.

 

[Birdie Num Num]

Film 1 - First time watcher. Quite a good start, it does seem like we're put in middle of things, and other past events did get mentioned so they are slowly building up to the full picture. It was entertaining and I think that was a Evil Dead reference with the hand. 7/10

 

[Vincentdante]

Film 1 - First time watcher. Quite a good start, it does seem like we're put in middle of things, and other past events did get mentioned so they are slowly building up to the full picture. It was entertaining and I think that was a Evil Dead reference with the hand. 7/10

Ah yes, if you didn't know we are doing the Monogatari thing here where movies are actually played out of order.

 

[Birdie Num Num]

Ah yes, if you didn't know we are doing the Monogatari thing here where movies are actually played out of order.

Hopefully it does it just as good as Monogatari.. I watched the preview at the end, made me want to watch the next one straight away.. Also watched the pre show insert, a very short stop motion animation telling people to switch their phones off in the cinema..

 

[Dai]

1. Thanatos
"When you put it like that, it sounds like a cheap novel."

In the late 70s, Dan O'Bannon wrote a schlocky SF monster movie script called Star Beast. He came close to selling it to Roger Corman, infamous purveyor of B-movies, and if the story ended there I probably wouldn't consider it worth mentioning today. But along the way O'Bannon changed the title, the script underwent various revisions, it netted an A-movie budget, director Ridley Scott and artist HR Giger got involved, and the resulting film was Alien. So much of film-making comes down to execution.

Garden of Sinners could have been forgettable. Most of its plots are pretty basic and in lesser hands its violent content could have turned it into exploitation trash that wouldn't have looked out of place alongside Angel Cop or MD Geist. Fortunately it was made by ufotable, so we got something else entirely. For starters the visuals are stunning. It's the lighting that sets it apart really, and I struggle to think of another anime that handles light so artistically. The scenes of blood and death are composed in such a painterly fashion that they're often as beautiful as they are disturbing. The music is gorgeous throughout. As for the execution of the story, it's here where we get the sense, right from this first movie, that the creators are toying with us. This movie's simple plot is laced with philosophical musings and veiled in the structural obfuscation of not being the first part of the story chronologically. The creators tease us with mention of events we haven't seen yet, and when Touko boils the plot down to its basics, they taunt us with that line I quoted above. When you watch Garden of Sinners, you're wandering into an experiment that exists to poke and prod you, and push your buttons.

Thanatos is one of my favourite parts of the series, possibly my favourite, but I swing back and forth between it and movie 5. It's all mood and atmosphere, a slow, mournful investigation punctuated by moments of action.

 

[Lordhippos]

Film 1

I'm a rewatcher of this series, but it's been a while, so I didn't 100% remember everything. I've got a firm favourite in the mysterious Touko so she is my avatar for the re-watch duration at least

I won't go into detail, mostly because I've seen it before, but partially because I can't do any "first time watcher" analysis or theory crafting on things like I would sometimes like to do.

For me, this series on the whole is mostly a bit of a slow burn, I could see that putting some people off, because a lot of people want action, action, action with no thought or effort really put into things like character development or plot. Personally I am in favour of slow burn as long as there is some pay out for it later, and without throwing out spoilers, I think GoS does that very well.

For when this was made in particular (late 2007 release) the art quality is genuinely amazing. This has aged really well. The OST is fantastic too throughout. For me this is not just an interesting show to watch, but it's a real work of art. The shot direction and the way that colour is used really does paint a picture.

Film 1 - First time watcher. Quite a good start, it does seem like we're put in middle of things

I'm glad we have at least one first time watcher here, it's always interesting seeing what people think who haven't already seen it. First movie is very much introductory though.

 

[Vincentdante]

I won't go into detail, mostly because I've seen it before, but partially because I can't do any "first time watcher" analysis or theory crafting on things like I would sometimes like to do.

Hehe hasn't stopped me . But my analysis was more focused on the magic at play in this specific movie because I'm a big nerd

1. Thanatos
"When you put it like that, it sounds like a cheap novel."

In the late 70s, Dan O'Bannon wrote a schlocky SF monster movie script called Star Beast. He came close to selling it to Roger Corman, infamous purveyor of B-movies, and if the story ended there I probably wouldn't consider it worth mentioning today. But along the way O'Bannon changed the title, the script underwent various revisions, it netted an A-movie budget, director Ridley Scott and artist HR Giger got involved, and the resulting film was Alien. So much of film-making comes down to execution.

Garden of Sinners could have been forgettable. Most of its plots are pretty basic and in lesser hands its violent content could have turned it into exploitation trash that wouldn't have looked out of place alongside Angel Cop or MD Geist. Fortunately it was made by ufotable, so we got something else entirely. For starters the visuals are stunning. It's the lighting that sets it apart really, and I struggle to think of another anime that handles light so artistically. The scenes of blood and death are composed in such a painterly fashion that they're often as beautiful as they are disturbing. The music is gorgeous throughout. As for the execution of the story, it's here where we get the sense, right from this first movie, that the creators are toying with us. This movie's simple plot is laced with philosophical musings and veiled in the structural obfuscation of not being the first part of the story chronologically. The creators tease us with mention of events we haven't seen yet, and when Touko boils the plot down to its basics, they taunt us with that line I quoted above. When you watch Garden of Sinners, you're wandering into an experiment that exists to poke and prod you, and push your buttons.

Thanatos is one of my favourite parts of the series, possibly my favourite, but I swing back and forth between it and movie 5. It's all mood and atmosphere, a slow, mournful investigation punctuated by moments of action.

This is a great analysis. And I didn;t know that bit of trivia about Alien.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

It's all mood and atmosphere, a slow, mournful investigation punctuated by moments of action.

I think you've summarised the elements of this first movie perfectly there. The atmosphere is crafted beautifully with both the visual and aural artistry laying a lovely tapestry for the intricate, if on the surface simplistic, plot to play out.

Hehe hasn't stopped me .

Heh likewise additionally given that I have a habit of forgetting plot details soon after. But in addition, it's always nice to pick up things you missed the first time around, and more so what others pick up, that you still miss the second time around, in a simulwatch as per your spoiler theorycrafting:

Spoiler: More theorycrafting

I think that these girls were living there before it got evacuated and that they "died" while leaving their memories behind, perhapes around the same time Kirie got sick perhapes?

Good analysis here, I was scratching my head about how the temporal effects that Touko (great avatar choice again btw @Lordhippos!) described applied to the other victims. Apart from astral projection girl, I didn't work out the others were residents there previously but that helps everything in your theory fit. I was thinking they did move out and die when they did with just their spirits lingering due to the effect of their summoner and the temporal effects of the building. I certainly like you theory that they had already died but that the magic? there allowed them to carry on a corporeal existence until time caught up. As for Kirie, I can't remember later movie links at all and just assumed his spirit was pulled by astral girl for company, not that that was ever shown to be the case... So looking forward to seeing what you're referring to heh.

the best animated eating of frozen ice cream from a tub ever put on disc

It is certainly very impressive! I was wondering why she was being lazy and messing about until I remembered she's missing a limb! Very nicely animated to show that.


So I set the scene for the movie last night with lights out and cozy under what I call the magic blanket (Teddy blanket from Duneim - for anyone with insomnia, I would be shocked if this didn't cure it!).....and promptly dozed off just past the half hour mark, and it wasn't even late.... Sigh ..

Anyhoo, a second watch for me and will ramble some random access ruminations:

There's a lot of talk of empty vessels and it's interesting in the setting of the minimal emotion we see in Shiki, also reflected by her desolate apartment (all of this was very reminiscent of Rei in Evangelion). I love how we get thrown in what feels like the middle of the story, with the preview hinting at the apparently vacuous Shiki's backstory and the cryptically capitalised hint which I think went along the lines of "back when SHIKI was still Shiki".

The story starts off with the feel of a thriller noir but we soon get it's true supernatural form revealed with the ghosties, biomechanical prostheses, Shiki's unusual abilities with eyes literally lighting up in battle and ability to survive jumping off the building in pursuit of her target, and the building stuck in some kind of slow-time field. I don't remember picking up on whether astral girl has always been in a wheelchair, or whether there was some accident that left her in that and stuck in hospital and whether that relates to the earlier theorycrafting.

Looking forward to watching the next one tomorrow evening hopefully.

 

[Lordhippos]

Don't forget there is a gap of 2 days between the movies @Geriatric hedgehog

Next one officially starts tomorrow! nothing stopping you watching it ahead of that of course.

 

[WMD]

1. Thanatos

This is rewatch for me though it's only the second time I'm watching these films.

It's a great start to the series. It keeps things relatively simple with a small cast and concentrates on mood and atmosphere above all else. It looks and sounds great. The action, when it arrives, is awesome.

As previously mentioned the ice cream scene is very well done. A pretty rare case of show, dont tell when it comes to exposition in anime. You really feel how annoying it is to do simple things when you're missing an arm. (It was stressful enough losing my arm for a month when I broke it earlier this year!) That pot must have been so cold on her legs!

Even though it's a full story this film also acts as a sort of cold open for the series and it works very well in that regard.

 

[Vincentdante]

The 2 day gap is working wonders. It's giving people more a chance to catch up as well

 

[WMD]

The 2 day gap is working wonders. It's giving people more a chance to catch up as well

For films it works great as they tend to be longer and it gives people a bit more time. For series it would drag out way to much in my view. I like to binge watch anyway so one 20min episode a day is a tough ask already (I'd simulwatch 4 a day if possible lol)

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Don't forget there is a gap of 2 days between the movies @Geriatric hedgehog

Indeed, it will really help catch up after busier days.

The 2 day gap is working wonders. It's giving people more a chance to catch up as well

For films it works great as they tend to be longer and it gives people a bit more time. For series it would drag out way to much in my view. I like to binge watch anyway so one 20min episode a day is a tough ask already (I'd simulwatch 4 a day if possible lol)

Given that each movie is about the length of two standard anime episodes, the 2 day spacing equates to a similar watch time and therefore works perfectly. I'm always tempted to binge as well, when I get the time, especially given the ever expanding watchlist, but for the better series it's always nice to savour at a more relaxed pace heh.

 

[WMD]

Indeed, it will really help catch up after busier days.


Given that each movie is about the length of two standard anime episodes, the 2 day spacing equates to a similar watch time and therefore works perfectly. I'm always tempted to binge as well, when I get the time, especially given the ever expanding watchlist, but for the better series it's always nice to savour at a more relaxed pace heh.

In fairness some of them do vary. The longest one is a full 2 hour movie so would be like doing 5 episodes in a day!

 

[WMD]

2. ......and nothing heart.

A sad and sombre tale. We get to know Kokouto (sp?) a lot more here and hes idealistic, naive, unaware and basically annoying. One of those male MCs. The way he wilfully ignores what going does grate on me. He doesnt really do anything to help or stop Shiki. And to top it off he doesnt even learn a lesson.

Anyway aside from my griping I stil enjoyed it. Seeing Shikis past as a deranged murderer was very interesting and unexpected. Especially as shes framed purely as a grumpy hero in the first film. Here she is a villian. A self confessed pyscho. Irredeemable.

As expected the whole thing looks and sounds great even if it's not the series best entry.

 

[Vincentdante]

Chapter 2

This is an episode I can't speculate/comment on easily as I know the answer to the mystery. But this was genius in ways I couldn't appreciate until this second viewing, I think Kokouto low key figured it out towards the end as well after this rewatch. Who's the killer? I dunno (well I do but I won't say shh)

It was really well animated and the way it subverts expectations is pretty cool. The sound design was great in also helping to tell the story. I'm watching this with my brother who is a first time viewer and his feedback is that it's just annoying how they stay focused on a single scene for too long. I dunno I thought it was well paced.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Chapter 2

I always enjoy some effectively planned time jumping in stories. After setting the scene in the first chapter, going back to the protagonists' relationship origin here was a great touch. The visual and aural mastery once again contributing beautifully to the atmosphere, and in the process showing up the writing somewhat I felt. As others have said, the use of lighting is par excellence, especially given the age of these movies.

As @WMD mentioned, the Kokuto fits the usual dullard male MC role,

The way he wilfully ignores what going does grate on me. He doesnt really do anything to help or stop Shiki. And to top it off he doesnt even learn a lesson.

but to play devil's advocate, I think his love for Shiki overrides his duty to society (and his own personal safety) to potentially ignore all the pointers to her being a psychotic murderer, even after she confesses this to him and warns him off! No wonder her retort to him after the warning is "how dare you?!". I think he tries to help her the only way he can/she will let him, which is passively by camping outside her place but ultimately, as he states, he is pretty convinced she ain't done dem murderation (standing next to a headless corpse, still gushing blood anime style, does not constitute proof!!).

Seeing Shikis past as a deranged murderer was very interesting and unexpected. Especially as shes framed purely as a grumpy hero in the first film. Here she is a villian. A self confessed pyscho. Irredeemable.

This is why I love the placement of this episode after the first where we are given the impression that here are your heroes who will save the day, only to be thrown the curveball of nah this one is actually a psycho killer. The dual personality clarifies the last preview's statement of when SHIKI was still in Shiki, so then we know that that personality is not present in the time period of the first movie.

One interesting scene was right after the fourth murder, with the random mystery student who had a brief but accusation-laden confrontation with Shiki in the corridor, stating he knew she was frustrated but four was too much. I'm shocked he didn't become the next victim heh. I'm sure cockatoo, err, I mean Kokuto (also sp??), was seen chatting to this same guy in a cafe before going to camp outside Shiki's place. Close call for Kokuto in the end but it sounded like truck-kun was there to save the day!!

The post-credits scene only further deepens the mystery with a third party (or was it Shiki's butler?!!) speaking of some indecipherable and a sinister plan, with Shiki/SHIKI at its core, apparently starting to come together. The preview seems to show the scion of another reputable family squaring off with the Ryougi one.

But this was genius in ways I couldn't appreciate until this second viewing

It certainly lends itself to very satisfying re-watches.

I'm watching this with my brother who is a first time viewer and his feedback is that it's just annoying how they stay focused on a single scene for too long. I dunno I thought it was well paced.

Biased as I am, I agree with you that the scene setting is well paced and in my opinion integral to generating that atmosphere.

In fairness some of them do vary. The longest one is a full 2 hour movie so would be like doing 5 episodes in a day!

Very true! I will need to dose up on the caffeine for that personal favourite.